THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM BIG BORE FORUMS

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    Cervical Fusion Question re: Stock Fit - Update now disc replacement

Moderators: jeffeosso
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Cervical Fusion Question re: Stock Fit - Update now disc replacement Login/Join
 
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted
I have to have C4-C6 fused in 2 weeks. Not worried about surgery or being able to shoot again.

The question I have: Has anyone had cervical fusion and then had issues with stock fit? Changes in limits of motion for mounting your check on a scoped rifle or open sight shotgun?

Thanks!


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Austin
I had c3, c4 and c5 fused in December 2015. I asked about recoil and had 2 doctors telling me that my big caliber rifle days were over. 2 other doctors didn’t have a clue. When I ask how big they both told me 30-06 as a max. I know that know there are a lot of variables to recoil but caliber wise it was a place for me to start.

As for fit, it’s more critical after surgery. Remington, Winchester and Savage bolt rifles fit me the same way before and after the surgery. Ruger and Weatherby never really fit me and it’s even worse now. Browning’s are in the middle. Tikka’s are ok but the CZ’s aren’t. I have not had an issue with Browning, Savage, Winchester or Marlin lever guns. Have not shot or shouldered any shotguns in some time.

What I have found since my surgery is that my scoped prone rifle shooting is about over. The posture is very uncomfortable. I shoot a Savage 308 with a stock pack. I used to be able to lay behind it all day. Now it’s about 10 rounds. A friends Ruger 270 is 3 rounds prone. Both rifles have factory synthetic stocks. I seem to do better with the AR platform stuff prone. Different posture with those rifles I guess. I have not had any difficulties shooting from a bench…..so far but I have kept my calibers somewhat small. Standing has not been an issue but I have a pair of Browning’s in 348 and I’m full at 4 rounds. So far I haven’t really pushed my recoil limit. Not sure if I will since there are a pile of calibers below 348.

I did sell my 375H&H, 45/70’s and 300 win mag, but no regrets. I should have had my neck done 20 years ago.

Good luck with the surgery.


“I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior,
except for his own worth, or as my inferior, except for his own demerit.”
Theodore Roosevelt (1858 – 1919)
 
Posts: 240 | Location: texas | Registered: 05 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by dick broussard:
Austin
I had c3, c4 and c5 fused in December 2015. I asked about recoil and had 2 doctors telling me that my big caliber rifle days were over. 2 other doctors didn’t have a clue. When I ask how big they both told me 30-06 as a max. I know that know there are a lot of variables to recoil but caliber wise it was a place for me to start.

As for fit, it’s more critical after surgery. Remington, Winchester and Savage bolt rifles fit me the same way before and after the surgery. Ruger and Weatherby never really fit me and it’s even worse now. Browning’s are in the middle. Tikka’s are ok but the CZ’s aren’t. I have not had an issue with Browning, Savage, Winchester or Marlin lever guns. Have not shot or shouldered any shotguns in some time.

What I have found since my surgery is that my scoped prone rifle shooting is about over. The posture is very uncomfortable. I shoot a Savage 308 with a stock pack. I used to be able to lay behind it all day. Now it’s about 10 rounds. A friends Ruger 270 is 3 rounds prone. Both rifles have factory synthetic stocks. I seem to do better with the AR platform stuff prone. Different posture with those rifles I guess. I have not had any difficulties shooting from a bench…..so far but I have kept my calibers somewhat small. Standing has not been an issue but I have a pair of Browning’s in 348 and I’m full at 4 rounds. So far I haven’t really pushed my recoil limit. Not sure if I will since there are a pile of calibers below 348.

I did sell my 375H&H, 45/70’s and 300 win mag, but no regrets. I should have had my neck done 20 years ago.

Good luck with the surgery.


I hate shooting from prone! Did for 4 years in high school on our rifle team. When hunting I shoot from sitting or standing with sticks or the rifle propped up on a blind window or some rock feature or something.

My doctor is a serious hunter. I will ask him directly. I didn't think of the question until after I saw him, so I asked his PA. She said 4 months for good fusion (he uses marrow and stem cells).


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Cougarz
posted Hide Post
I have no personal experience with that surgery but I would think a rifle with a Monte Carlo stock would be better. Reason is it keeps your head more upright than a straight comb does. I personally like a Monte Carlo type stock for that reason and I do have have some back/neck problems.


Roger
___________________________
I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.

*we band of 45-70ers*
 
Posts: 2786 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cougarz:
I have no personal experience with that surgery but I would think a rifle with a Monte Carlo stock would be better. Reason is it keeps your head more upright than a straight comb does. I personally like a Monte Carlo type stock for that reason and I do have have some back/neck problems.


I was thinking the same and higher scope rings.


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
I think the best solution I've found is probably go to GRS adjustable stocks for my rifles and increase the scope ring heights.

for my Mauser M03, I'll have to get a new blank receiver since they offer the GRS from the factory.

Good news - the GRS stocks weigh a lot more and are completely adjustable.


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
After surgery you will be better equipt to make all these judgments...It may not effect how you hold the rifle at all, sometimes such surgery makes changes and sometimes not..My son has 13 lbs of steel in his spine, and his shooting never changed other than caliber..Don't forget the muzzle brake isn't the evil devise as some profess, it can add years to your shooting.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Contact Dr Onan, a preemenant orthopedic spine surgeon in Austin.
He is an avid hunter and should be able to offer sage and sound advice.


Bob Nisbet
DRSS & 348 Lever Winchester Lover
Temporarily Displaced Texan
If there's no food on your plate when dinner is done, you didn't get enough to eat.
 
Posts: 830 | Location: Texas and Alabama | Registered: 07 January 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I had the C3/C4 fusion 2 years ago last November. I notice that my natural pointing position has changed on my custom shotguns and I put a little more effort into getting into position on my rifles. They were made to fit me prior to surgery and now it is a little different. I have no problems with recoil and shoot my .416 Rigby and 30/06 regularly.
 
Posts: 58 | Location: Texas | Registered: 29 July 2015Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jmm01:
I had the C3/C4 fusion 2 years ago last November. I notice that my natural pointing position has changed on my custom shotguns and I put a little more effort into getting into position on my rifles. They were made to fit me prior to surgery and now it is a little different. I have no problems with recoil and shoot my .416 Rigby and 30/06 regularly.


Thanks! I intend to adjust my scope heights and stock fit (either new stocks or modify existing depending on the rifle)


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I have to have C4-C6 fused in 2 weeks. Not worried about surgery or being able to shoot again.

The question I have: Has anyone had cervical fusion and then had issues with stock fit? Changes in limits of motion for mounting your check on a scoped rifle or open sight shotgun?

Thanks!


I had C-4,5,& 6 fused 10 years ago. I would wait 18-24 months after your surgery before shooting anything with much/any recoil.
As far as sight/scope alignment or stock fit go you wont have any problems. You will be so wound up to get to shoot again you wont notice anything different. Good luck with your surgery.
dancing tu2
 
Posts: 2349 | Location: KENAI, ALASKA | Registered: 10 November 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
Well, I changed the procedure. I was supposed to have ACDF last Thursday, but after consulting with two other surgeons (Austin and Dallas, one a neurosurgeon, one an orthopedic surgeon) they both recommended multi-level disc replacement. So that's the path now. it maintains neck mobility. Limitations still apply and I'm checking to make sure there are not further limitations on shooting. I will keep everyone posted.


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Huvius
posted Hide Post
Personally, depending on which device they use, I think a two level disc replacement would be of more concern down the line if heavy recoil shooting is to be encountered.
I have seen a couple removals of failed cervical discs but I am pretty sure those particular devices aren't being used any more. One had an unconstrained poly center which was expelled from the disc anteriorly. That is what I would want to avoid if I were expecting heavy recoil shooting. Watch slow motion vids of recoil and you will see what I mean. I have also seen a dozen or so patients who went on to auto fuse across levels with disc replacements rendering them useless. Probably a surgeon carpentry issue there.

C4-5-6 levels have almost no rotation but do have some flexion/extension and a little translation. Depending on how degenerated your facet joints are, there functionally could be no clinical outcome difference between a fusion and a disc replacement. If your facets are worn out or overgrown with bone - this happens when the disc collapses and the facets are overworked for a long period of time - a disc replacement is not appropriate anyway.
If you restore disc height and mobility to the front of the spinal column and the posterior structures are degenerated (sometimes to the point of losing motion there), the disc is pointless.
The only thing surgeons hope will be better is the decrease in the incidence of adjacent level degeneration. The theory is that the disc next to a fused level will have more stress applied to it and wear out more quickly but the disc adjacent to an artificial disc shouldn't see as much stress and therefore remain normal longer. I think just recently there has been some published papers on this which suggest it may be true but there are more articles showing very little difference in outcomes.

I wouldnt worry about getting a disc replacement over a fusion as long as your doc knows who is a good candidate and who isn't.
I know you had more concern about stock fit and sighting so my long winded post may be moot for you.
 
Posts: 3232 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
Personally, depending on which device they use, I think a two level disc replacement would be of more concern down the line if heavy recoil shooting is to be encountered.
I have seen a couple removals of failed cervical discs but I am pretty sure those particular devices aren't being used any more. One had an unconstrained poly center which was expelled from the disc anteriorly. That is what I would want to avoid if I were expecting heavy recoil shooting. Watch slow motion vids of recoil and you will see what I mean. I have also seen a dozen or so patients who went on to auto fuse across levels with disc replacements rendering them useless. Probably a surgeon carpentry issue there.

C4-5-6 levels have almost no rotation but do have some flexion/extension and a little translation. Depending on how degenerated your facet joints are, there functionally could be no clinical outcome difference between a fusion and a disc replacement. If your facets are worn out or overgrown with bone - this happens when the disc collapses and the facets are overworked for a long period of time - a disc replacement is not appropriate anyway.
If you restore disc height and mobility to the front of the spinal column and the posterior structures are degenerated (sometimes to the point of losing motion there), the disc is pointless.
The only thing surgeons hope will be better is the decrease in the incidence of adjacent level degeneration. The theory is that the disc next to a fused level will have more stress applied to it and wear out more quickly but the disc adjacent to an artificial disc shouldn't see as much stress and therefore remain normal longer. I think just recently there has been some published papers on this which suggest it may be true but there are more articles showing very little difference in outcomes.

I wouldnt worry about getting a disc replacement over a fusion as long as your doc knows who is a good candidate and who isn't.
I know you had more concern about stock fit and sighting so my long winded post may be moot for you.


I actually asked the doctors office today this same question - would fusion be better for a life time of shooting. Waiting for answer. The plastic part of this disc is mechanically prevented from moved out of the placement unless the spine is tractioned part in which case I'd have much bigger issues! And you are right, a certain % end up fusing.

Mobi-C


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
quote:
Originally posted by Huvius:
Personally, depending on which device they use, I think a two level disc replacement would be of more concern down the line if heavy recoil shooting is to be encountered.
I have seen a couple removals of failed cervical discs but I am pretty sure those particular devices aren't being used any more. One had an unconstrained poly center which was expelled from the disc anteriorly. That is what I would want to avoid if I were expecting heavy recoil shooting. Watch slow motion vids of recoil and you will see what I mean. I have also seen a dozen or so patients who went on to auto fuse across levels with disc replacements rendering them useless. Probably a surgeon carpentry issue there.

C4-5-6 levels have almost no rotation but do have some flexion/extension and a little translation. Depending on how degenerated your facet joints are, there functionally could be no clinical outcome difference between a fusion and a disc replacement. If your facets are worn out or overgrown with bone - this happens when the disc collapses and the facets are overworked for a long period of time - a disc replacement is not appropriate anyway.
If you restore disc height and mobility to the front of the spinal column and the posterior structures are degenerated (sometimes to the point of losing motion there), the disc is pointless.
The only thing surgeons hope will be better is the decrease in the incidence of adjacent level degeneration. The theory is that the disc next to a fused level will have more stress applied to it and wear out more quickly but the disc adjacent to an artificial disc shouldn't see as much stress and therefore remain normal longer. I think just recently there has been some published papers on this which suggest it may be true but there are more articles showing very little difference in outcomes.

I wouldnt worry about getting a disc replacement over a fusion as long as your doc knows who is a good candidate and who isn't.
I know you had more concern about stock fit and sighting so my long winded post may be moot for you.


I actually asked the doctors office today this same question - would fusion be better for a life time of shooting. Waiting for answer. The plastic part of this disc is mechanically prevented from moved out of the placement unless the spine is tractioned part in which case I'd have much bigger issues! And you are right, a certain % end up fusing.

Mobi-C


I had the surgery Wednesday morning, took about 60 minutes to remove two discs, remove bone spurs, and insert the replacement discs. Was up and walking after anesthesia wore off, ate lunch and dinner, another walk, and xrays with full range of motion of confirm seating (did live xray during surgery). No collar, came home this morning. Just finished a walk. This is the way to go. Will start PT in 30 days after incision area fully heals. Have my 300 blackout bolt action with a suppressor ready to go this summer and retooling for my 243 Howa for a Pronghorn hunt in October.


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
Moderator
posted Hide Post
That's good news!

I hope everything heals up nicely for you.

George


 
Posts: 14623 | Location: San Antonio, TX | Registered: 22 May 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Great to hear!
 
Posts: 20076 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Cougarz
posted Hide Post
That's good news! Now just take it easy and let your body heal. tu2


Roger
___________________________
I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.

*we band of 45-70ers*
 
Posts: 2786 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
I noticed today - after I stopped taking my muscle relaxant and pain meds 2 days ago - that my posture if much better without trying. I think the muscles in my back weren't working correctly with the pressure on my spinal cord and now are working correctly and are sore.

And I got drawn for Wyoming elk! Probably going crossbow!


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
5 months later and things are fantastic! Both checkups have been 5 star progress!

I'm still sticking with my 243 and 300 ACC for low recoil and am passing on opening dove in a few weeks.

On track for pronghorn and elk this October.


X-rays below. Plates fused with bones, gap in between is filled with high density polyethylene.






"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Bill/Oregon
posted Hide Post
AH, that's just outstanding. I still have a long way to go to get full use of my legs back after a lumbar laminectomy in April.
As to the dove opener, have you considered a soft-shooting 28 gauge gas gun, or maybe one of those little Yildiz .410 doubles from Academy?


There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
 
Posts: 16306 | Location: Sweetwater, TX | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Austin Hunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
AH, that's just outstanding. I still have a long way to go to get full use of my legs back after a lumbar laminectomy in April.
As to the dove opener, have you considered a soft-shooting 28 gauge gas gun, or maybe one of those little Yildiz .410 doubles from Academy?


I have my wifes A391 20, but helping a friend look for elk on our Hill Country lease opening weekend. We have a good free range herd and they should be starting to bugle. Saw a good 7x8 last year.


"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan

"Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians."

Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness.
 
Posts: 3022 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 05 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Michael Robinson
posted Hide Post
That is amazing. Congratulations! Thank God we live in the era we do. Just fantastic.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13329 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Big Bores    Cervical Fusion Question re: Stock Fit - Update now disc replacement

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia