Devcon steel, or Devcon titanium?

So, Yup. I think LD is 100% spot on with Cerakote and epoxy paint. Rustoleum is great if a guy is out in the middle of nowhere. But Cerakote is nice and tough. And epoxy paint holds up very well for handling.

Cerakote on stainless is good enough.
Robar NP3 Plus or whatever they call it might be better in durability, but it is more expensive and not done in the 'hood by the local guy.
I hate shipping firearms.
As for the stock: I might show a picture of Ole Ugly to my grandchildren and give them a box of Crayolas, bribe them with some treat if job well done.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Devcon steel, or Devcon titanium?

As far as I know, it is Devcon unobtainium, and any of them would be fine for a gentle little .458 Win.Mag.

Rip ...

The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 4:

RIFLE 220 JUL-AUG 2005

.458 Lott
Much Ado About Nothing?

By: Phil Shoemaker

This artcle is an excellent review of Phil's study of the .458 Lott versus the .458 Winchester Magnum.
Points of note:

Phil: " ... finally in 2002 Hornady took up the cause and standardized the SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturer's Institute) dimensions ..."
(Rip: That would be referring to the .458 Lott.)
Phil: "Gun-builder D'Arcy Echols, who probably has as much experience with the Lott as anyone, claims the new standardized chambers have less throat length than Jack's originals, and older Lott loadings are too hot for today's factory rifles."

Rip: Original CIP homologation occurred prior to SAAMI standardization.
Many wildcat and older CIP spec' rifles had an exact copy of the .458 Win.Mag. SAAMI throat
tacked onto the end of a 2.8" Lott chamber.
CIP revised, now both CIP and SAAMI have given the .458 Lott same short throat.

The following is about a D'Arcy Echols, Winchester M70, 4 + 1 five-shooter, .458 Lott rifle that Phil put through its PH paces:

Phil: "In the 24-inch barrel of his rifle, his meticulously loaded ammunition showed an average of 2,260 fps across the chronograph.
If I remember correctly, he was using 83 grains of IMR-4320.(D'Arcy now claims the newest IMR-4320 powder seldom gives much over 2,180 fps.)"
(Rip: That would be 500-grainer velocities.)

Next, Phil carried a Lon Paul test rifle for bear season and bison fun, a CZ 550 Magnum, 6 + 1 seven-shooter, .458 Lott rifle.
He used Hornady factory 500-grain softs and solids, and some 450-grain North Fork softs loaded by Superior Ammunition:

Phil: "By the time I began carrying Lon's rifle, Hornady was producing factory .458 Lott ammunition. The factory data shows a 500-grain bullet traveling 2,300 fps, but on a 50-degree day in Alaska, using Lon's 22-inch barreled CZ, Hornady's 500-grain softnosed bullets averaged 2,160 fps, and the solids averaged 2,210 fps. The 450-grain North Fork bullets loaded by Superior averaged 2,250 fps.

"Using the same rifle, on the same day, I decided to fire some standard .458 Winchester loads in the Lott chamber. Many pundits don't recommend this practice, even though it is one of the virtues of the Lott they espouse,

but Lon gave me permission to do so with his rifle.
The 450-grain factory Buffalo Bore .458 Winchester ammunition that averages 2,230 fps in my 21-inch barreled mauser produced an avearage of 2,240 fps in the Lott.
(Rip: 22"-inch .458 Lott, 21-inch .458 Winchester)

Phil continues: "The same ammunition with 400-grain Kodiak bullets averaged 2,320 fps in the Lott, and 2,300 fps in my rifle."

Phil then opined that the .458 Win.Mag. ammo fired in the Lon Paul .458 Lott: "... fed and functioned perfectly,
and obviously sacrificed nothing in the velocity department."

More fun:

Phil: "There is such a discrepancy in bullet lengths that it is entirely possible to negate the extra powder capacity of the Lott simply by loading long, 500-grain spitzer homogeneous bullets (like the Barnes TSX) in the Lott and shorter roundnose, lead core designs (like Kodiak, Hornady, and Woodleighs) in the Winchester."

Rip: And of course we all know it is possible to totally negate any advantage of the .458 Lott by loading the .458 Winchester Magnum to the same COL and the same pressure as for the .458 Lott, with that same 500-grain TSX in both cartridges.
In fact, the .458 Winchester Magnum can surpass the .458 Lott with that very same bullet, same pressures, and longer COL in the CZ 550 Magnum action.
It is all in the throat, too big-boring for discussion in polite society.
Thoroughly covered earlier in this thread, however.


But let us stick to SAAMI COLs and SAAMI MAPs, to allow the .458 Lott to save face:
.458 Win.Mag.: 3.340", 60,000 PSI
.458 Lott: 3.600", 62,500 PSI
Then note the claims of Hornady, adhering to SAAMI specs, as Phil reports from Steve Hornady:

Phil: " ... I talked at length with President Steve Hornady at the last Shot Show. He assured me figures in the company's new catalog regarding the Lott and the Winchester were an accurate and fair assessment of the difference between the two cartridges.
Using identical barrels in the test facilities, the original .458 Winchester with Hornady's new powders safely heaves a 500-grain bullet 2,260 fps, while the Lott generally attains the 2,300 fps Jack was looking for."
(Rip: Barrel length same for both, whatever that was, eh? And pressure was lower for the shorter COL .458 Win.Mag. than for the longer COL .458 Lott.
With this double handicap on the .458 Win.Mag., the Lott does only 40 fps greater.)

Rip ...

Phil's article of 2005 AD was quite a comfort for readership, in defiance of Seyfried's 2004 AD defiance of the .458 Winchester.

Rip ...

It sure is nice to have been around the block and returned to find the .458 Win.Mag. is better than ever.
It's tops.
Next reply starts page 50?

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Next reply starts page 50?

Rip ...

Maybe--

Yup, that solves the mystery I had with my CZ. Original 458 Winchester factory rechambered to 458 Lott.

I wonder if Tanoose checks this thread very often. If he doesn't already have a 458 Win mag . I'm sure he's looking for one.

My fanatic friend, whom I seldom disagree with but tend to annoy I would remind you that you have left out the fact that Phil also uses and likes very much a 500 mauser action rifle and I wouldn't swear to it but thinking he packs it for a back up rifle more than any other, but like most of us I suspect he switches around on back up rifles a good bit,you tend to shade your quotes old buddy!

That's funny , on the Alaska forum we've had many an argument on the unsuitability of the pos 06's with brown bear .
As it proves out, its generally at least 4 shots to stop and kill a bear with its blood up. Often several more. And that is With spineing the bear. If someone is shooting an 06.
Ya sure don't have to spine a bear to dump it on the ground like a big bag of ---- when you can shoot a 458 Winchester. Or a 416. Trick is, being able to hit what needs hitting.
I think my quote is perfect. Considering I didn't write it !

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
That's funny , on the Alaska forum we've had many an argument on the unsuitability of the pos 06's with brown bear ...

The .30-06 is a great brown bear rifle only for clients who are supposed to be able to shoot straight, double-lung the bear,
and let Phil pack the .458 Win.Mag. for poking the dead bear with.
It is possible that if Timothy Treadwell had an aught-6 to sing to the bears with,
he and his girlfriend might not have ended up as bear crap in double-aught-3.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
... you have left out the fact that Phil also uses and likes very much a 500 mauser action rifle and I wouldn't swear to it but thinking he packs it for a back up rifle more than any other, but like most of us I suspect he switches around on back up rifles a good bit,you tend to shade your quotes old buddy!

Atkinson:

I call "baloney" unless you can be more specific, and present some evidence of this Shoemaker preference for a "500."
Phil is probaby on the tundra with Ole Ugly the .458 Win.Mag. right now.

If you mean the .510/.505 Gibbs "surprise wildcat" that Phil wrote about in ...

HANDLOADER #200, Aug-Sep 1999
".505 Gibbs
A backup rifle for brown bear."
By: Phil Shoemaker

... That story was a comedy of errors or a tale of woe for the most part.
By great perseverence, Phil finally got the original gunsmith's screwups sorted out
by having another gunsmith set back the barrel 3 inches and re-chamber
the surprise .510-caliber barrel that was supposed to be a .505-grooved barrel.
Then the necks of the brass had to be turned down to make .510 bullets work in the .505 dies.
Heroic Phil was eventually able to test .510/.535-grain Woodleighs at 2150 fps on bear.
They worked, but Phil has stuck with the .458 Win.Mag. ever since.
Ole Ugly was still in service as of 2016, according to an article in FIELD & STREAM
Double Issue of DEC 2016--JAN 2017.

I shall scan an excerpt of that fine book as a book review for Part 5 of the Phil Shoemaker Sainthood Series.

Rip ...

The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 5:

FIELD & STREAM
Special Double Issue
December 2016 -- January 2017
THE HARDCORE ISSUE
THE BIG GAMERS
"THE BEAR TAMER"
--as told to B.H. aka Bill Heavey

The .458 Winchester Magnum, Ole Ugly has been with Phil Shoemaker since 1984, 34 years and counting as of this article in late 2016.
Is there any greater testament for the .458 Win.Mag.?

Rip ...

Notice the Accurate Powders chart on the wall:

Rotate the photo and Phil is giving the .458 Win.Mag a thumbs up. Subliminal messaging.

Rip

The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 6:

SUCCESSFUL HUNTER
March 2004
"A RIGBY IN THE OUTHOUSE"
A Guide's Notes
Phil Shoemaker

Rip: To paraphrase Phil, he says that at his homestead on the Alaska Peninsula, it is necessary, for safety from bears passing by, to keep a rifle in the outhouse,
so as not to be, in a manner of speaking, caught with one's pants down.
The chosen rifle stands sentry duty in the corner of the outhouse.



Phil: "Over the years a few different rifles have bravely stood sentinel in the corner, but for the past few years my CZ .416 Rigby (the one I am holding at the top of the column) has become known as the outhouse gun. It is not a rifle I typically hunt with, as I much prefer the heavier blow of my .458 Winchester, but the .416 Rigby is a proven caliber for heavy game.

"Our own Ross Seyfried is also a genuine big-bore fan and is the designer and proponent of the ultra powerful .585 Nyati. He is especially fond of the .416 and in one of his articles claims he considers anyone who hunts wounded game larger than whitetail deer with "anything other than a .416" as "being basically unarmed." I personally don't think any competent shooter needs a .416 for whitetail deer, but I know from experience they work well on large brown bears, which is why my .416 Rigby currently resides in the outhouse."

Rip ...

Oh, ya prolly won't get chewed on if you have one that holds lots of bullets.
But, that doesn't mean there will be a dead bear laying at yer feet. Just that it kept you from getting bit . That doesn't equal a good cartridge for bear.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The Ascent of Phil Shoemaker: Sainthood Assured by his Support of the .458 Winchester Magnum
Part 6:

SUCCESSFUL HUNTER
March 2004
"A RIGBY IN THE OUTHOUSE"
A Guide's Notes
Phil Shoemaker

Rip: To paraphrase Phil, he says that at his homestead on the Alaska Peninsula, it is necessary, for safety from bears passing by, to keep a rifle in the outhouse,
so as not to be, in a manner of speaking, caught with one's pants down.
The chosen rifle stands sentry duty in the corner of the outhouse.



Phil: "Over the years a few different rifles have bravely stood sentinel in the corner, but for the past few years my CZ .416 Rigby (the one I am holding at the top of the column) has become known as the outhouse gun. It is not a rifle I typically hunt with, as I much prefer the heavier blow of my .458 Winchester, but the .416 Rigby is a proven caliber for heavy game.

"Our own Ross Seyfried is also a genuine big-bore fan and is the designer and proponent of the ultra powerful .585 Nyati. He is especially fond of the .416 and in one of his articles claims he considers anyone who hunts wounded game larger than whitetail deer with "anything other than a .416" as "being basically unarmed." I personally don't think any competent shooter needs a .416 for whitetail deer, but I know from experience they work well on large brown bears, which is why my .416 Rigby currently resides in the outhouse."

Rip ...

Actually, that's sound wisdom. I know a few people that have been stuck in the outhouse by bears. One lady in Olive Cove was stuck and had to watch a brown bear dig and eat half her potato crop from her garden . Which happened to be between the house and the biffy.

Btw. I'm aware of the tounge in cheek.

I remember Phil telling me on a forum that he now uses a .303 British as his outhouse rifle...

I thought that a SMLE in the outhouse had a nicer ring to it !

SMLE in the outhouse is brilliant!

Alrighty then!
If Phil does not object to any of my posts above, then it shall be accepted as gospel.


Rip ...

Rip ...

Scopes can be swapped between the above .30-06 rifle and Ms. Chimera WinCzechster, the .458 Win.Mag.
Same actions,
same bases,
same rings.

Same BCs at same velocities,
.308/180-grainer and .458/400-grainers at 2500 fps.

Rip ...

Getting close to page 51?

Rip ...

The Nikon BlackForce is amazing for the money.
True 1X and brighter than eyeball, both eyes open,
glowing, red SpeedForce reticle,
an off setting between each intensity level,
no dialing up and down to turn it off,
previous setting immediately available with a click ...
Should be about as fast a sight as possible.
Whether it can stand up to a .458 Win.Mag. as well as the Nikon SlugHunter does ...
That remains to be determined.

Rip ...

The stock on Phil Shoemaker's rifle resembles that on my 1960 M70 Alaskan 338. It was rolled on by a horse and any normal person would have discarded it after having a replacement built. However I glued and bolted the thing back together and preferred it to the replacement stock. I probably should have been a little more artful in my restoration, but it works quite well.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fzTKaENm.jpg [/IMG]


I don't know- I got the image to post on the Medium Bore section but it just gives the IMG stuff on this one.

Ray B,

You just fumbled an extra, terminal "[/IMG]" onto the end of that image posting above.
Remove that extra one or just put a space between it and the rest, and the image will show up.

That is a masterpiece!
Self taught too?
That is definitely more in the Aagaard School of Rifle Artistry and Repair (ASRAR).
The primary media used are walnut, epoxy and steel,
classical style.
The Shoemaker School (SSRAR) involves fiberglass stocks, Bondo, fiberglass cloth, plus the epoxy and steel,
topped off with Krylon and Rustoleum spray paints.
Shoemaker's is an avant garde approach.

ASRAR compared to SSRAR is like comparing a Rembrandt to a Picasso.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
Here is the well used 1960 M70 Alaskan 338 Win Mag. A horse rolled on it in Northern Alberta that broke it completely in two at the grip and split it vertically through the trigger guard, magazine well, recoil lug and up into the fore end. Repair was epoxy as showing in the grip and to fill the crack, then placed two bolts as show to tighten the epoxy and hold it together. I didn't intend on using the stock since I had a replacement made for it, but after I tried the old stock, the rifle shot so well I kept the old one on it and wished I had done a nicer job on the repair. It is presently my go-to rifle if I draw a branch antler elk permit.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

THAT is what an old bear hunter should look like!