The Accurate Reloading Forums
458 winchester magnum

This topic can be found at:
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/4821083332

07 August 2017, 08:48
badboymelvin
458 winchester magnum
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Hey, the .458WinMag lovers need to rate this thread 5 stars.
I did several days ago but there must not be enough ratings from other members to get it to show up.
I guess that is how it works.

Click on that 5th star in the rating function, y'all.
Just look at the top of this page, page 5 of this thread.
Right under where it says "Welcome, (your member name/handle) [LOGOUT]" there are 5 stars.
Put your mouse pointer on that 5th star and right click.

Come on you lovers, and haters, rate it.
1 star or 5?

stir

Rip
.


Done! 5 star rating given and long live the great .458 Winchester Magnum! tu2


You'll probably never NEED a gun. In fact I hope you never do. BUT IF you do, you will probably need it worse than anything you've ever needed before in your life...
07 August 2017, 10:13
RIP
quote:
Originally posted by badboymelvin:
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
Hey, the .458WinMag lovers need to rate this thread 5 stars.
I did several days ago but there must not be enough ratings from other members to get it to show up.
I guess that is how it works.

Click on that 5th star in the rating function, y'all.
Just look at the top of this page, page 5 of this thread.
Right under where it says "Welcome, (your member name/handle) [LOGOUT]" there are 5 stars.
Put your mouse pointer on that 5th star and right left click.

Come on you lovers, and haters, rate it.
1 star or 5?

stir

Rip
.


Done! 5 star rating given and long live the great .458 Winchester Magnum! tu2


Thanks, badboymelvin,

You figured it out even though I said "right" when I meant "my other right" (left) click.
Corrected.
(OK, a "left click" is just a plain old "click" versus the "right click." I might become computer literate, eventually.)
You have made the difference, 5 stars showing now. tu2
Rip
.
07 August 2017, 11:15
RIP
stradling,

550-grainers might be more fun than I want to have.
But anything fired in a .458 WinMag is of interest here for sure, so have at it, please!
BOOM

North Fork makes a .458/550-grainer too:

.458/550-grain SS, Soft Point:


.458/550-grain FPS (FP Solid):

Cup Point Solid (CPS), etc. ...
Other North Fork .458-caliber weights are 300, 325, 350, 400, 405, 450, and 500-grainers.
550-grainers are the heaviest .458 from NF,
no 600-grainers there. coffee

Regarding North Fork bullets, from my homeboy stash:

I have made a .458 WinMag throat gage by seating a North Fork .458/450-grain SP backwards into a case.
Crimping on the second micro-groove from the nose ogive, that's about as long as I can seat it (reversed)
and still hope to keep it straight and solidly crimped.





The base of that bullet is as flat and square as any I can find, makes a heck of a wadcutter appearance to the dummy round.
That bullet base is also closer to .459" diameter rather than .458".
That's a North Fork "seal-tight band" of sorts, but no patent or copyright infringement of Cutting Edge. Wink

The corner/edge of the North Fork SP bullet base is slightly broken/beveled/rounded.
Close enough for R.I.P. work to call it square.

Well, that produces a dummy cartridge/throat gage that has a C.O.L. of 3.160".
It is a big fat go on that, a GO GAGE. tu2
My calculations said that a .458-caliber cylindrical bullet would be bumping into the lands in the .458 WinMag throat
at 3.176" distance from the breech bolt face.
That would be a NO GO THROAT GAGE COL.
R.I.P. certified. tu2

What does this mean?, asks I of meself:

Well, it means that a .458 WinMag loaded with a 450-grain or 500-grain Barnes TSX
can be loaded to crimp on 4th groove down from the ogive,
with 3 grooves showing beyond the case mouth.
That gives a COL of 3.680" with either of these two bullets,
they both have the same nose/ogive above the first groove:

.458/450-grain TSX:
.458/500-grain TSX:


And that COL will chamber and fire in a standard SAAMI .458 WinMag.
That is as long as the 450-grain TSX can be loaded, with a crimp.
And that is longer than the standard .458 Lott max COL.

However, the 500-grain TSX can be crimped on the 5th groove back from the ogive,
with 4 grooves showing beyond the case mouth of a .458 WinMag.
That gives a COL of about 3.790".
That IS too long to chamber in a .458 WinMag.
Finally!

But hey! That is crowding a .458 Lott CZ 550 Magnum anyway.
I load those bullets in the CZ .458 Lott to only 3.730" COL,
by crimping on the second groove back from the ogive,
with only one groove showing beyond the .458 Lott case mouth.
Next groove down makes a COL too long for the CZ magazine box!

So, with the Barnes TSX bullets, either 450-grain or 500-grain, in a CZ 550 Magnum,
the .458 WinMag functions with a COL of 3.680"
and the .458 Lott functions with a COL of 3.730".

That is only 50 thousandths of an inch difference in cartridge length between the two.

The 450 and 500-grain TSX bullets can be loaded in the .458 WinMag to COLs of:

A. 3.340": crimped on the first groove, no grooves showing beyond the case mouth

B. 3.560": crimped on the 3rd groove, 2 grooves showing

C. 3.680": crimped on the 4th groove, 3 grooves showing

Your choice of magazine box length:

.458 WinMag-A: 3.4"

.458 WinMag-B: 3.6"

.458 WinMag-C: 3.8"

All the same chambering, just different rifles with different magazine box length.
Such a versatile cartridge is the .458 WinMag!

I do have some the first generation Barnes X-Bullets of .458/500-grain spec.
They are without grooves, not even a single cannelure.
Also they have a pointier, longer ogive nose than the current TSX.
A dummy .458 WinMag with that bullet can be loaded to a COL of 3.797",
and it WILL still chamber in a SAAMI .458 WinMag. Eeker

Tat is the marvel of the .458 WinMag!
The leade-only-long-funnel throat has been under-rated, unappreciated, and much maligned,
for no good reason.
It's the Rodney Dangerfield of cartidges.

Dangerfield ... danger field ... perfect place to use a DGR like a .458 WinMag-A, or B or C. animal
Enough free association for now.
I gotta go get started on a .458 WinMag-A done on a Pre-64 M70 parts gun: 7.5 pounds.
Then a .458 WinMag-B done on a Pre-'64 M70 parts gun: 6.5 pounds.
Going from A to B to re-acclimate to recoil.
I am sure to use a 25-pound bag of bird-shot at the bench with those, early on,
maybe even a (horrors!) muzzle brake.
The .458 WinMag-C on a CZ 550 Magnum: 9 pounds even, if I use the Kevlar/Aramid stock,
and shorten the barrel a few inches.
rotflmo

Rip
.
07 August 2017, 11:58
Cold Trigger Finger
quote:
Originally posted by stradling:
CTF

my gun is 22 inch a montana left hand cast action

10.5 pounds and at 450 grain bullets in the 2050 range its enough

just right is 400 grains at 1800 fps

any 8.5 pound 458 win mag moving a 550 gn woodleigh at 2100 fps will for sure kill me dead no matter which end I lean on

now that's just me, but you do understand there are some real studs out there that can handle the heavy fast stuff in a light gun Wink

with a 20 # sack of lead shot between me and the rifle I can kinda light off the heavy stuff

so no not much for recoil personally

50 pounds is tolerable 90 pounds not so much

it will embarrass me to tell you how much my 12.5 pound 460 weatherby weights, or how heavy my 12.5 pound 378 wby is, nevertheless both seem rather violent

I have got a heavy up ed ruger lott that's not quite as bad as those 2

but it can get a little nasty if you push it around much, as does a 458 win mag overworked

they are all killers, question is can you kill with them, and if so at what minimum recoil

that is my game



That's one big reason why I like the 300 gr X, TSX, TTSX and the 350 gr X and TSX.
I still got the huge hole thru a bear AND those loads are easy shooting. I really liked the old , big blue nose 510 gr Winchester rnsn factory load for shooting Sitka Blacktail deer. It poked a hole thru them with about 0 lost meat. As long as no bones bigger than the skull was hit. And still would dump a big bear up close and fast. And , I could hit well with it. Out to 200 yards. I thot the lighter weight Barnes going fast dumped bears faster. But , I can't prove it. One reason I liked them was their spitzeresque shape didn't hurt feeding. Not interested in anyone talking about sending a rifle off to a smith to get it to feed 100% with some wadcutterish flat nose. Which incidentally, the Spruce King feeds backward seated 350 gr Speer Hot Cores100% in my hands. Friends of mine never had much luck with it feeding.
Being alone 60 miles from town ,sometimes a couple, few miles by foot . 10 by 4 wheeler and 50 by skiff I wanted every advantage I could get in a fight.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
07 August 2017, 13:07
stradling
quote:
550-grainers might be more fun than I want to have.
But anything fired in a .458 Win Mag is of interest here for sure, so have at it, please


RIP what the hell is wrong with you

that's way too much common sense for AR

made me laugh out loud

then I got to thinking why we have extra 550 grain bullets around here and not much else

taking every advantage in a fight

that dam well could be, and you know for ''sure'' dam well

--- is at the bottom of it all--

is a fight for your life, that right there will get you real-- real fast

even after every other thing you try ---don't work


recoil is not your friend-- never was-- never will be


now I see why those hard headed Alaskans are so obsessed with that over promoted spruce king

some of em won't even go fishin without it-- think about that will you

when I did I did not laugh - I am quite confident that MAN is telling the truth


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
07 August 2017, 22:26
RIP
stradling,

Just a suggestion:
If you run out of case capacity with 550-grainWoodleigh ...



... shy of 2100 fps,
you might be able to load them long-nosed in any SAAMI .458 WinMag.
I don't know for sure, depends on how long the full diameter shank is ahead of the cannelure.
If possible, load them to 3.600" COL, like you would in a standard .458 Lott,
they just won't fit in a 3.4" box.

Here's a nice .458 Lott load to try in the .458 WinMag,
with the 550-grain Woodleighs you have:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/d...ffset=20&LoadID=9473

84.0 grains of Varget gave 2100 fps at 3.600" COL, 25" barrel.
80.0 grains gave best accuracy, and might be fast enough in the more efficient .458 WinMag.
Just a suggestion, something I might try if I ever get any 550-grainers (North Fork).
Proceed with your own loads, at your own risk.
I cannot be responsible for a groan man like you. Wink

So a real kick-ass, long-nosed load could be single-loaded into the chamber,
and the rapid-fire, follow-up, elephant-love-tap loads fill the box.
tu2

Rip
.
08 August 2017, 01:57
stradling
Rip thanks for the info

we got the woodleighs out and the 550 grain are quite long and soak up lots of case volume

which I am sure you knew already

we are slightly weak knee ed about it at the moment


had a couple 200 of other guys loads to finish up

so did not load any to play with

but to work we may need to push em out a bit and run a new ring on the bullets

pain in the grass so

then checkem in one specific gun and all that stuff

The good idea, might not hunt as good as the first blush idea did

your pointy north fork seems

suddenly

an excellent next thing to look at

feeding ignored for the moment

Woodleigh reloading manual edition 2014 page 239

shows loads

a load for 458 win mag

of

both benchmark and benchmark 2 73 gn
2110 fps
550 gn bullet

I think the C refers to crushed down to the properties of stone



don't think we can quite get that done in this gun wonder what the test rifle was for that recipe

we are not doing this in a ruger 1 chained to a post

Watts may not ever have want us to run em that big in his 450 watts short any way

at least not in this little repeater

no point making a little short fat hog out of her


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
08 August 2017, 09:42
Cold Trigger Finger
There are times in the run of a 458s life where very rapid 2nd shot may be necessary. Like BangBang or Bangcyclereadywatch!
Mainly for warning/ deterrent first shots.
Heavy recoil is a detriment then.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
08 August 2017, 17:45
stradling
quote:
Originally posted by stradling:
somehow you keep steering us back to the main point with the 458 win mag

as opposed to just about all other rifles

of said class

it is enough

you can run it

it kills on touch

you can trust it

not -- so much gun that the first shot, pulls you out of the game

not -- so much gun that the first shot, pulls you out of the game

not -- so much gun that the first shot, pulls you out of the game

not -- so much gun that the first shot, pulls you out of the game


are you actually using your spruce king

now and then CTF

or more like most of the rest of us

fondling it and talking big stuff in africa

there is something a little different about you --- can't quite put my finger on it

for god sakes -- you are not actually taking it to work with you-- are you

no couldn't/ wouldn't be that -- would it ?



Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
08 August 2017, 20:33
Cold Trigger Finger
Not taking it to work currently as I now drive truck and run heavy equipment for a living .
For about 10 years this rifle was my fairly constant companion and when pre commercial tree thinning was with me Every day. If my saw wasn't running in my hands then the Spruce King was in hand. . If I went to Africa. It would be the rifle I took. But doubt I'll ever go. I built it for protection and as a meat gun. It has always excelled at both jobs.
Until someone spends lots of time in the brush on Chichagof Is. They may doubt how many bear a guy has to be around every day. The oldtimers had them cropped back so it wasn't as bad as it is now. Plus , the coast has gone to he'll in a hand basket with all the tourists , nature fakers, and tourist businesses.
I knew 7 or 8 people in just Hoonah alone that have been under a bear. Most have the scars to prove it.
It's kindof a different mind set there.

Being much more a settler/homesteader/ natural resource extractor. Punks in black or brown fur coats were just something a guy had to deal with efficiently.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
08 August 2017, 22:20
stradling
well I for one

would dam sure like to see a photo

of a over worked beat down old spruce king

I can tell you that for sure

I am about to post pic.s of the test rifles and would feel a little better about it

if you did not make me go first

as they are not all that fancy

RIP shows us all those bullet graphics

and not gun one

whats up with that RIP


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
09 August 2017, 00:31
Cold Trigger Finger
It's even uglier than Phil's. I had a pic up last winter. I'll take some pics and see if I can get something to appear.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
09 August 2017, 04:39
RIP
quote:
Originally posted by stradling:
well I for one

would dam sure like to see a photo

of a over worked beat down old spruce king

I can tell you that for sure

I am about to post pic.s of the test rifles and would feel a little better about it

if you did not make me go first

as they are not all that fancy

RIP shows us all those bullet graphics

and not gun one

whats up with that RIP


Stradling,

I love ugly rifles. Like a mother loves her child.
As long as it functions properly, fugly is fine.
I have way more than a hundred fugly rifles.
Beware the man with more than 200 guns. hilbily

I would love to post some pictures, already have them in photopucker,
but I am not going to pay them $400 per year just for that.
Why, I could make another fugly rifle for that! animal
Send me a PM with your email and I will send you some photos to post. Whatever you want.
Hell, I will take some new pictures that even Photopucker does not have. Cool

Maybe I ought to find something other than Photopucker. Is Imgur the way to go?

Rip
.
09 August 2017, 06:15
RIP
So get Imgur and do it myself, eh? I like that. tu2
And since I am able to type [ctrl] + [-] repeatedly until I get it down to 33% size, I am able to view the photos posted by stradling for full aesthetics.
Not fugly rifles.
Nice rifles.
Someone is paying attention to cosmetics.
Function too, I hope. tu2

Rip
.
09 August 2017, 06:19
stradling
MAY HAVE OVER STEPPED MY SELF PROMOTED SKILL W PHOTOS


cut em down to 1024 looks like I need to cut them down to 512


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
09 August 2017, 06:58
Cold Trigger Finger
Wow , purti !!


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
09 August 2017, 06:58
RIP
test:





Ah ha! 1024 wide is better than 3072 wide!
The dots disappear if you edit the size down to 1/3 of the original.

Is Imgur.com gonna change the rules and charge me big money for this too?

Ugly ones coming up,
I'll build some more if I have to. hilbily

Rip
.
09 August 2017, 08:52
RIP
With a .458 WinMag, who needs a .458 Lott?
The COL of a .458 WinMag is mainly limited by the magazine box length.

Ruger and Mauser standard actions: 3.400"max COL
Winchester M70 and stretched M98: 3.600" max COL
CZ 550 Magnum, etc.: 3.800" COL

All of the below COLs could be chambered and fired in a SAAMI .458 WinMag,
even the reversed bullet at the top, serving as a throat go gage.



***********************************************************
(Edit 8-9-2017)
Bullets used in dummies above, from 1. at top to 10. at bottom:

1. North Fork .458/450gr SS (soft point Semi-Spitzer), reversed seating: 3.160" COL
It's an easy THROAT GO GAGE, crimped on second micro-groove from ogive.

2. North Fork .458/450gr CPS (Cup Point Solid) of earliest production: 3.310" COL

3. North Fork .458/450 SS (showing other end of bullet in 1.) crimped on third groove from ogive: 3.330" COL

4. Hornady .458/500gr FMJ Solid, ye olde one, vintage uncertain: 3.335" COL

5. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on first groove, next to ogive: 3.340" COL

6. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on second groove from ogive: 3.455" COL

7. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on third groove from ogive: 3.560" COL

8. North Fork .458/450gr SS, crimped on 10th micro-groove from ogive: 3.600" COL

9. Barnes .458/450gr or 500gr TSX, crimped on 4th groove from ogive: 3.560" COL
The 450-grain TSX has 4 grooves,
500-grain TSX has 5 grooves.
Same nose/ogive on both.
If you crimp the 500-grain TSX on the 5th groove,
the COL is 3.788"
and that is too long to chamber
in a SAAMI .458 WinMag
due to throat too short and tight for that. animal
But the longer-nosed dummy below will chamber just fine,
in a SAAMI .458 WinMag.

10. Barnes .458/500 X-Bullet of earliest production: 3.797" COL
********************************************************************

I am dangerous again, with new photo linking from imgur.com.
Dangerously boring. A big bore. coffee
Above pic was re-sized to 800 wide, and 900-something long.
Convenient enough. tu2

Rip
.
09 August 2017, 09:35
Cold Trigger Finger
So, how did you get set up with imgur ?
I didn't see much info other than downloading their app.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
09 August 2017, 09:40
RIP
CTF,

I just went to www.imgur.com
and signed in as a new account and it started working immediately for me:

Just created a user name and a password and typed in my email address.

I don't do that "app" crap on anything I know of. hilbily

As you were:

Below was downloaded to my 'puter from this page, then edited on my 'puter, then uploaded to imgur.
I hope stradling doesn't mind.
I sized this one to about 1024 wide by +300 tall after I rotated and cropped it.



Stradling's .458 WinMag "Cull Gun" has gotten me so worked up I am going to have to go load some 22-250 varmint ammo to calm down.

sofa

Rip
.
09 August 2017, 09:53
Double BC
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:
With a .458 WinMag, who needs a .458

Why get a 458 win when you can build a 400 h&h Cool
09 August 2017, 12:19
Cold Trigger Finger
I like the Model 70 with the stick clip ;-)

I'll give it a whirl. Thank you.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
09 August 2017, 16:30
stradling
http://forums.accuratereloadin...0106691/m/2521072332

CFT go to that link he has a video you can watch

then you will be good at it like me


do not skip the part on photo re sizing might get you in trouble later on


if you are interested in a clip conversion



I have got the parts source for you depending on which action you have got

can point you to things

BOTTOM METAL WE USED ON THIS ONE

http://cdiprecisiongunworks.com/

the 5 round clip is a bit more practical

what is showing is the 10 round it runs better with 8 than 10

we have one on both a crf m 70 and a rem 700 push feed to see the dif did that test 3 years ago

worked well enough to leave it on the guns so


RIP thanks for working on my pic s those are the numbers I was looking for started out in the 4000 s quite large as we see here will re set them

and thanks for posting that bullet string

was trying to explain all that to folks in the shop the pic s will make it much more clear

need a list of the bullets type and size

number 2 from the top looks like a batch we had a guy here on the forum that is located in california run off for us years back

mine were set up for the 577 ne is that the same bullet



550 woodleigh next to the macfije 577

the 512 photo size seems much more user friendly don't you think

do like your rifles


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
09 August 2017, 17:34
stradling
We set up a 3 man team

one rolling the tires w a target screwed to the center down the side hill

2 shooting the rifles one a double one the 458 clip gun

we all found out after burning some 400 rounds each

that if you want to unload 8 or 10 458 win mag rounds somewhere near the center of a bouncing rolling tire

big recoil is not going to help you mark the paper

not going to help you get the shots off

and not going to help you sleep later that evening

ON THE OTHER HAND A REFLEX SIGHT IS SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER

RECOIL NOT YOUR FRIEND a point CTF keeps bringing up

a smooth running m 98 w 5 down and 1 in the 20 inch tube

might be all you need

if you could ever find one like that

well we are building just that rifle and it ain't going to look like the pawn shop rifles just posted

might even be as nice a some of RIP s guns


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
09 August 2017, 22:41
RIP
quote:
Originally posted by stradling:

RIP thanks for working on my pic s those are the numbers I was looking for started out in the 4000 s quite large as we see here will re set them

Will watch for shrinkage of your pictures. tu2

and thanks for posting that bullet string

was trying to explain all that to folks in the shop the pic s will make it much more clear

need a list of the bullets type and size

I added a list of the info, edited the post with the dummies pic above. tu2

number 2 from the top looks like a batch we had a guy here on the forum that is located in california run off for us years back

mine were set up for the 577 ne is that the same bullet

Similar nose shape there, but mine is a North Fork Cup Point Solid, monometal copper.



550 woodleigh next to the macfije 577

"macifje" was the ar.com handle of the mastermind of S&H bullets.
There is no better bullet than S&H, some may be as good, but none better.
They were usually monometal brass, the finest machining extant.
tu2

the 512 photo size seems much more user friendly don't you think

Yep, 512 is handy.
800 wide is about the biggest that won't expand the page beyond the default size of the printed words.
Go for 800 wide.
tu2


do like your rifles

Thanks, yours are nice too. But we need to get some ugly ones posted here.
I am working on it.
tu2



Rip
.
09 August 2017, 23:14
RIP
quote:
Originally posted by Double BC:

quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
With a .458 WinMag, who needs a .458 Lott?


Why get a 458 win when you can build a 400 h&h Cool


Both are cool beans.
If being a riflecrank is similar to being a carguy,
then building a 400 H&H is like restoring a '58 Edsel,
and the .458 WinMag is like a '65 Mustang rebuild,
complete with 8-track tape player and red paint!
That little V-8 was nice!
Cool
Rip
.
10 August 2017, 01:19
stradling
[QUOTE]Originally posted by stradling:
this is the remington 700 with a custom take off ruger 460 wby barrel cut back and reamed to 458 win mag its 21 1/2 inch tube has the 10 round clip and trigicon reflex sight with the delta point






this is the montana 22 inch tube

it shoots up to 78 grains and over 2300 fps little or no pressure show



this is a winchester m 70 458 win mag with the florida bottom metal and a 10 round clip




This is the heavy barrel wby custom 458 win mag




the cz 550 in 458 win mag



remington 798 zastava 26 inch barrel shoots 78 grains of aa 2230 under a 500gr hornady no pressure show at top load measured at 2344 fps






shows the added compression of a 550 woodleigh over the 500 hornady both solids



this is the 550 woodleigh just touching the powder at 69 gn of benchmark so starts out in compression





red one is a 550 grain woodleigh next to a 500 hornady




the 550 s all loaded up in pairs ready to go to the lab radar we will first shoot them in the remington 798 zastava seems it handles pressure the best



this is a string of aa 2230 loads under 550 woodleighs much less compression and we loaded um up to 73 grains of powder don't know if we will end up lighting all of them we will see how it goes the one at the top might have a full can of whoop ass ready for the lucky bastard that lights its rear end we will see about that



the spread



mauser 98 argentine 1909 22 inch tube 8.5 pounds the project test gun




Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
10 August 2017, 03:03
stradling
quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
Bob Dylan's : The times are a changing comes to mind

If you have been around on AR you would find a time when there was anything good to be said about the 458 Win. if you claimed to shoot a 458 you were outcasted and banished !

The world belonged to the Lott and off course anything bigger. They swooned and drooled and anything less was , well lets say one did not dare mention that you actually shot a lowly 458...... now well apparently its the best thing ever invented. sofa


We americans are like that

fashion chasing fickel

remember when the 30-06 bounced off an elk would not kill it at 200 yards

about the time Roy Weatherby got rich on the 300 wby fad

could not give a 30-06 away in those days--- never mind it killed a million germans and as many japanese

now we load it with a 220 grain bullet and shoot elephant

so goes the 458 win mag

one of the most under utilized cartridges out there

much like the 30-06

there is not much it won't do in the right hands with the right bullet

and it's enough gun and easy to shoot

you really don't need the fancy 300 win mag do you now

nice enough yes

yet the 30-06 will get er done

when you get right down to it

elegance in simplicity

in those days when all I could afford was a junk 303 british

that not much good for anything a reject 30-06 looked pretty good to me, I never quite bought in to the bulls used grass

good cheap fast kinda had all 3

well here we are right back there

if something works it just works

there is always more and more of it, but at some point do you really need it

any way the all time elephant killer is more than most likely a 303 british service rifle

less you step down to the ak 47, but that's kinda a new thing isn't it


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
10 August 2017, 06:03
Atkinson
OOOO-kkkkkk,
Ive been kicked, stomped, gilflurted and sidewided, can't take it anymore so Im out of here..

BTW I shoot clays with my .458 Lott!!, so there!!

dancing rotflmo jumping


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
10 August 2017, 08:33
RIP
I have plans to build three "new" .458 WinMag shop mules, truck guns,
pawnshop guns, or whatever you want to call them.

Beware, you cannot un-see what follows!
It is not for the faint of heart or those unable to make a fist without extended pinky finger:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

A Whitworth MkX barreled action that unfortunately got opened up, after-factory, to .458 Lott,
8.0 lbs without the KDF muzzlebrake.
I stocked it myself, can't blame anyone else for this:



That is some of my earliest unadulterated stock work. hilbily
It is a Brown Precision fiberglass stock with brown-colored Microbed epoxy smeared all over the outside
of the bare fiberglass and painted with black Krylon.

I am thinking of re-barreleing it to .458 WinMag-B (3.6" magazine box),
using a CZ take-off barrel, to produce a sporty featherweight-safari profile. Cool
Of course the stock could be sanded smooth and properly painted,
with a lot of elbow grease. Cool

But first, this Pre-'64 M70 300 WinMag parts gun (formerly a 30-06 from 1950 year)
will be re-barreled with a CZ take-off barrel
to produce a .458 WinMag-A (3.4" magazine box).
It might be 7.5 lbs in tupperware stock shown:



Here is what the CZ take-off barrels look like.
I only have 3 of them left, what with the .458 Lott and .458/.338 Lapua Magnum re-chambering mutilations.
Don't anybody ask to buy one of them unless he is willing to offer big bucks for one!
A thousand bucks won't cut one loose from me! Cool





Then there is a gosh-darned CZ .458 Lott produced by re-chambering a .458 WinMag that
will be restored to .458 WinMag-C (3.8" magazine box).
That will be a slicker feeder than a .458 Lott on same rifle,
and it will be more efficient in converting gunpowder into kinetic energy.
Ought to be about 9.0 lbs even in Aramid stock, if shortened to 23" barrel.
No gilflurting allowed, except to Atkinson. Girlflirting is OK only for you single guys.
Not Atkinson. old

Rip
.
10 August 2017, 09:06
Cold Trigger Finger
I just got home from work . Don't have the brain waves to start up a new image hosting site. This is the best I can do tonight.
http://s1087.photobucket.com/u...1223_150231.jpg.html


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
10 August 2017, 09:27
RIP
CTF,
Copied to my tablet for viewing convenience, "auto-correct" sharpened it up a bit, then uploaded to imgur.
Your cell phone might have fogged in that warm and sunny Alaskan dusk? Wink
Hope you don't mind.
I have not learned to do anything new at Imgur, yet. Need to spend some time there myself ...

Cold Trigger Finger's Spruce King, a .458 WinMag-A:



I want one of those too.
I might actually have to buy a virgin stainless barrel for that.
But I do have that Ruger M77 Mk II in same stock, that has a .338 WinMag barrel on it right now.
That will be the fourth .458 WinMag-A for me.
A man cannot have too many .458 WinMags.
From my cold, dead hands ... tu2

Molon labe (Greek: μολὼν λαβέ molṑn labé), meaning "come and take [them]", is a classical expression of defiance. According to Plutarch,[1] Xerxes, king of Persia, demanded that the Spartans surrender their weapons and King Leonidas I responded with this phrase. It is an exemplary use of a laconic phrase.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe

Rip
.
10 August 2017, 11:35
Cold Trigger Finger
RIP; Thank you very much for posting the pick. No, I didn't kill that bou with the Spruce King. Used my 9.3x64 Brenneke. Maybe this fall I'll get a bou with the 458. Might even use a cast boolit. I would be interested to see if your Ruger will feed 458 before Any mods.
That's what got me hooked on the M77 Mk ll. It fed every kind of 458 I had to feed it while still a factory 338. At least up and into the chamber. Did the same with 416 Taylor ammo. But , I already had a Taylor and wanted to b able t buy factory ammo again.
Even the old 510 gr WW softs , with the great big snolly bomb of lead nose. I really liked that ammo. They knock the he'll right out of a bear. But , just pokes a .458" hole thru a deer.
I'm just curious as to whether mine was a fluke.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
10 August 2017, 11:52
Cold Trigger Finger
The barrel on mine is a Shilen. Either the 458 Winchester is real efficient as to not needing long barrels to attain full velocity. Or mine is a Fast barrel. I get book velocity with book loads and the barrel is 19" from receiver ring to crown of the bore.


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
10 August 2017, 16:37
stradling
Schroeder & Hetzendorfer make a cartridge called the S&H 2 Bore ... Jay Schroeder for the brass and bullets:

his bullets are nice enough to put on the mantel and some of the 2 bore cost enough that they need to be there

he made the 577 mono I posted , still have a few 100 of em for future elephant dreams

any way nice to see real working guns

never change that first one w nice stock RIP if you do

will regret it

I am building me a BSA 458 to keep in the pickup



its to me a new gun


won't quite be the show off CTF s gun is, but think it will work

did not plan on showing it to you guys, may turn out to crude to promote

I can not stand ridicule and criticism

I get all the laughing at it, I need, from the boys in the custom deluxe we make em so dam fancy you will never even think of taking it to work with you Frank --gun shop

don't give a shoot, did it anyway and think I will really like it

personal pickup gun
458 win mag
kill anything ==go anywhere== be right there if you need it== stay in the pickup== handy as hell gun

now we are getting some where with this 458 win mag gun discussion

put them to work use em

work the ass of it== when you hit it== it will hurt it== gun

pretty much what watts had in mind when he lost his pistol in the creek

he wasn't in there, with it, and neither was the bear

on the 2 mile walk to camp in the soft moonlight, he must of considered the possibility of all that school teacher training, dam near squandered

watching a bear have a midnight snack on his leg, pistol over there in the rocks and all wet

just couldn't get past it, would not let it go, clung to it for 12 years

then he got anderson to cut a 450 watts short reamer and, all of a sudden he forgot all about it


that was awhile back long time ago

I carry a gun now that would have more than likly turned things out a little different, that night

don't worry as much about it these days, as I did back then , I have got a better gun

look right there ,you have got yourself one of those new fangle 458 win mags, that should do the trick



Was not drinking coffee with Watts this morning, in the light rain falling on my tin shed rat tat tat, singing to me about wild places

a hint of fall drifting down out of rock canyon, lifting the mood, elevating the mind, nudging adventure


but I was thinking about him

thinking through the lost pistol in the creek, right when I really would have wanted it


Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
10 August 2017, 20:38
Cold Trigger Finger
Holsters. A man needs to unnerstan. His pistol holster needs to be as skookum as his belt , and gun and himself. Integral belt loop full flap. And keep it well greased with rendered bear fat !!


Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle."
10 August 2017, 21:07
Les Staley
All this 458 Win Mag talk has finally gotten to me. I had a chance to pick up a 458 myself a couple months ago at a gun show here in Idaho. Somebody built this on a FN military action, barrel unmarked for maker. A swing safety like a Model 70, Redfield bases and rings. Sitting in a synthetic stock. Total package reblued in a black chrome looking finish. Came with RCBS dies, 50 loaded cartridges. Not much more recoil than my 375 H&H.
11 August 2017, 03:10
RIP
stradling,

OK, I will use a different donor rifle to convert to .458 WinMag-B (3.6" box).
It also has a Brown Precision stock,
but with not so much epoxy smeared on the outside of it,
so it will be a lot easier to re-finish,
and not so much a loss of originality. hilbily

The new donor is the first rifle I ever had built for me,
a Whitworth MkX .375 WbyMag with the old atrociously long throat of 1949 vintage.
Gunsmith said he was allergic to epoxy, so I was left to my own devices,
stocked this one myself too, in 1987.
It hunted Kodiak in fall 1987 and spring 1988.
It would be perfect in that role if re-barreled to .458 WinMag:













And for my version of The Spruce King,
my 4th .458 WinMag-A (3.4" box),
here is an early Ruger M77 MK II, .338 WinMag.
I still have the original boat-paddle stock.
Aftermarket Hogue stock and Whitworth express sights were added to the original slick barrel:







Using the "boat paddle stock" on the rifle will lighten it at least a pound versus the Hogue stock.
The original stock resides in this box, No.4 on the endflap notecard label:



That box is on the bottom of this pile on top of a safe in a corner of "The Study":


11 August 2017, 06:55
stradling
RIp

clean that mess up or it's going to get out of hand

sloppy like this guy




Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win----
11 August 2017, 07:03
RIP
quote:
Originally posted by stradling:

If it was me I would leave the dam gun alone ...



OK already! I will leave the 8# .458 Lott Mk X alone, warthog-ugly stock and all.
It will serve as poster-child for what not to do to your .458 WinMag, er, uh .450 Watts Short. tu2

CTF,

My Ruger M77 Mk II, .338 WinMag, is an excellent feeder of .458 WinMag dummies.
The North Fork Flat Point Solids (old and new nose shape),
Hornady Round Nose softs and solids of any sort,
and of course the Barnes TSXs of any sort,
as long as COL is kept under 3.4",
they feed like poop through a goose,
slicker than greased owl crap,
etc.
Three down in the box with plenty of room to spare , 3+1 four-shooter. tu2

My rifle is truly one of the earliest M77 Mk II rifles.
When they first came out, they were still pushfeeds, with an enclosed boltface.
Gunsmith Kelly Olson in Eagle River, Alaska fixed that about 1992.
He milled away what he called the "weak sister" bolt face and converted it to CRF.
He may have done other feed work on it,
but I was too stupid to know about such things back then.
Sturm Ruger themselves soon followed suit at the factory!
Kelly Olson moved back to Minnesota!
I moved back to Kentucky!

Kelly Olson also installed those Whitworth express sights on the slick factory barrel.

I will make sure my new, stainless .450 Watts Short barrel
fits inside the contours of that barrel out to the forend tip,
After that it will taper less to the muzzle and be about 0.710" diameter at 23" muzzle.
Then I can always switch back to .338 WinMag barrel,
a fine cartridge,
once in a blue moon, for a few days.

Rip
.