NEWS!

Little new coming our way. Have new bullets that should arrive today I think. .458 caliber--Cutting Edge-CEB Brass Solid and HP NonCons.

400 gr Solid/370 Noncon

325 Solid/295 NonCon.

All these have nose designs that will allow feed and function in .458 caliber Marlin lever guns. All have Nitro Bands--Slightly Wider. So these should do well in all 450 Marlins and 45/70 Marlins, and all other rifles in those cartridges. I have the lighter versions done for the 458 B&M Super Short--but they should also make some good bullets for light duty in heavier 458 caliber cartridges as well!

I will get some photos up when they arrive.

Michael

Save a few boxes of each for me to try in my 45-70 doubles!

Sam

Michael, welcome to page 150 !!!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Michael, welcome to page 150 !!!

Now what do we do?

LOL

Michael

We’ll most likely commiserate with your healing process till your back in the range shooting.

Then…oh I don’t know…maybe put those 460gr HB’s through the box for penetration testing and then T-Rex ‘em as well!!! That’d get you ready for Paul’s .620 caliber cannon!!

And I understand Big Horn armory is starting to deliver their Model 89 50 cal lever action.
So a new 50 to work up. Then testing on the 9.3 B%M and 458SS B&M.

Nahh your gonna be bored

SSR

Jim

460 BBW#13 HB? Oh, yeah, that's right, the one thing I keep forgetting to do! Good thing you remind me of such things! I don't know WHY I cannot get that one tested and done? OK....Back on the list!

Cross!

500 S&W in a lever gun? This is the origin of the ENTIRE B&M series of cartridges! Did you know that? Billy (The B) wanted a 500 S&W in a lever gun! This is the question he asked me one night on the phone! At the time, there was no lever receiver that would work proper in that capacity with that cartridge, so I told him he could not have one. About that time I picked up a 338 WSM I was playing with in 2005, and wondered what it would look like with the shoulder cut off? Hacksaw, some trimming, and in minutes the 50 B&M Super Short was born. By the next day I had the 50 B&M cut and trimmed fitted to a WSM action. It was only natural to go to--458, 416, and so forth and so on! Very possible that had there been a way to put the 500 S&W in a lever gun, none of the B&Ms would have existed?

I have had some minor dealings with Frank at Big Horn Armory. He is a super nice guy, and while the M89 is behind it's schedule, I think it's mainly because Frank has been sorting the bugs out, all of these things have bugs, and he is not going to let it go until it is RIGHT! This is going to be a wonderful little gun! I saw in a recent (last day or so) gun rag a short two page on it, wonderful reviews of course. Frank seems to be a first class chap, and I am betting the Model 89 is going to be first class as well!

Well, have some new bullets today. Rather nice ones, that is going to appeal to many of you. I must wait until tomorrow to get some photos up, and some dummies loaded for you guys to see first hand! This is gonna be pretty good for you .458 guys, 450 Marlins, 45/70s, and even the larger 458 cases as well!

Till tomorrow!

Michael

Michael,
Thought you might like to see the "upgrades" we applied to the .50 B&M AK you sent in for us to break...er...play with.





[IMG]
http://i1233.photobucket.com/a...d/IMG_0284.jpg[/IMG]


You might like the bamboo better on the blued gun. Oh, yeah, it shoots nicely also.

SB

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Jim

460 BBW#13 HB? Oh, yeah, that's right, the one thing I keep forgetting to do! Good thing you remind me of such things! I don't know WHY I cannot get that one tested and done? OK....Back on the list!
…..
Michael

Hum…Most likely cause it didn’t get along with IMR 4198 in the 50 B&M.

It most definitely liked RL-10X in the 500 MDM though!. Perhaps 10X is what you need to use in the 50 B&M for testing.

I think a stainless with bamboo would be a good combo.
Use the bamboo stock as an impromptu cutting board. Can you hide a ginzu knife in the stock?

quote:

Can you hide a ginzu knife in the stock?

I like the bamboo.
Maybe be good for a Japanese service round. 6.5 Arisaka with bamboo stock anyone?

Can you call bamboo a wood stock? since bamboo is a grass!

" Gotta Grass stock on my Custom DGR"




SSR

Grass Stock? Don't know yet. As I recall, very light, and very strong? I think for the color I still like Maple better. Did I tell you guys about the joke my bud Corbin did to me on the "Blank"? Can't remember.

How about some "Bullet Porn"?

Yesterday I received a new run of the New .458 420 gr Brass BBW#13 HP NonCons, with the new Larger Cavity, thinner blades, so that shear occurs at lower velocities, as we discussed a few weeks ago. ALL NEW .458 NonCons will have this new broach size and cavity, regardless of weight.

I will show you the comparison after I introduce the new 400 CEB BBW#13 Solid and Matching 370 CEB BBW#13 HP NonCon.






We made some changes on these bullets to make them suitable for 45/70 and Marlin 1895s. Seated to the top groove, below the top band and crimped in 45/70 this bullet works through the Marlins slick as can be. Seated out to the bottom groove the bullet works fine in the single shot 1885s. One might go a little longer for a 1886, but probably not enough to make a lot of difference.

Seated further out these bullets will work dandy in the 458 B&M, 458 B&M Super Short, and larger capacity cartridges like the 458 Lott. These bullets also have the Nitro Express wider grooves for easier crimping. We tried to make these as versatile as possible while maintaining the 3+1 bands. Personally I would have been a bit better off with a longer nose to mouth, but then that would have made it impossible to use in the 45/70s and 450 Marlins in the lever guns, I did not want to limit the use to the B&Ms, so we can all use these.





Michael

Now I want to show you the new .458 caliber cavity for the NonCons. I will be testing these of course, but I have 99.9% confidence we are going to get much lower velocity shear with this cavity. What bottom end velocity I don't know, yet! But I am shooting for 1500 fps impact as a goal!

All new 458s will have this cavity regardless of weight.






On the LEFT is the old cavity--On the right is the new larger cavity.

Michael

Just so you know for sure--Both these are 420 gr .458 caliber BBW#13 NonCons! Same bullet, bigger cavity--sure looks different eh?

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Just so you know for sure--Both these are 420 gr .458 caliber BBW#13 NonCons! Same bullet, bigger cavity--sure looks different eh?

Sure looks good

quote:

Use the bamboo stock as an impromptu cutting board. Can you hide a ginzu knife in the stock?

Ginzu...was holding out that option for the pistol grip model, but come to think of it, have a true ginzu disguised as an 8 oz. recoil tube in the buttstock, which is long enough for a tall shooter...now where is my baby Nambu?...

SB

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Just so you know for sure--Both these are 420 gr .458 caliber BBW#13 NonCons! Same bullet, bigger cavity--sure looks different eh?

That’ll most definitely work…Seems to be begging for a pointy tip insert though.

The new bullets look good!
So the new non con will weigh about 350 grains when petals sheared. Would be great to see the wound channel at top loads for the 458 Lott with the 400's and 370's

Jim
Have not had time or thought to mention the pointy tip inserts lately! Had that worked out, just don't think it's moved forward yet.

But yes, still on the burner for tips! And concur!


Boomy

Yes, bullets are nice I agree. I concur that it would be around 350 gr retained. I think devastating is what it would be. I am loading some up, soon as I think I am about half recovered I am going to check them in the 458 B&M for POI. If close, and I think they will be, I will take a few to hammer something with in June. Probably wildebeast or something such. I pretty much have all my first shots covered on buffalo right now with the combined North Forks and CEBs.

Do have some really GREAT news from North Fork!!!! Finally our die for the new .500 caliber, 450 gr Bonded Core bullet is on the way! While this is designed to work, feed, and function in the 50 B&M Alaskan--lever guns including MARLINS---This will also work well in the 500 MDM and the 50 B&M as well. North Fork is working hard to get some of these ready for us, and I will take some in the 500 MDM, along with the 450 CPS too! Yet, another first shot for some unlucky buffalo! We are going with some really super Non Conventional right along side of some of the very best Conventionals! Should be extremely interesting test work!

Michael

Well, now I have a couple of more rifles to add to my wish list! It's not fair to do this to retired civil service employee!

You guys weren't kidding about the bamboo stock, were you? That's stuff is supposed to be nearly indestructible. Unless you're fishing with a cane pole and a big bass hits your bait.

I just received another CEB shipment! This will round out the .458s nicely I think. I wanted these weights primarily for the 458 B&M Super Short. Once again, we shortened the nose to mouth so that these bullets would work equally as well in the 450 Marlin and 45/70s in the Marlin rifles. So those of you with Marlins in .458, you are good to go with these, they will feed and function without a problem.





And for comparison to the 400/370 combo.



Michael

Those 325 and 295 458s look awesome!

Well I think we need another BBW#13. I had a pointed projectile fail to penetrate the other day. I shot an Eastern Tom Turkey with my bow and was using a broadhead designed for turkey. It is called the Tomohawk. Well I hit the bird in the shoulder and he hit the ground. The arrow was laying a couple of feet away. Turkey blead all over me. About 15 minutes later we were setting up to take photos and after posing the bird I was getting ready to pose and the bird got up and took off running. Now I had lost a bird last year with a 3 blade conventional broadhead that passed through birds shoulders. I paniced and took off behind bird and after about 50 to 75 yards both myself and the bird got hung up in briars. If we would have only had the video going when that bird came to life. I got the bird. The Tomohawk broadhead had hit shoulder socket and had not penetrated except for the long straight point. The expanding blades stopped at shoulder. I won't be using Tomohawks again. I'd rather have over penetration than no penetration. Hope you guys don't mind me posting this on Terminals.

Sam

Nice gobbler, Sam. Looks like the arrow penetrated the right amount.

I don't think Michael is in much position to beat you up in case he objects to the photo.

Hey , its a hunt report on terminal effects--legal subject,

I promise not to use a 416 tomahawk on Buff..



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
I just received another CEB shipment! This will round out the .458s nicely I think. I wanted these weights primarily for the 458 B&M Super Short.


Michael

The 325gr #13 FN and 295gr #13 HP most definitely will put the 458 B&M SS and 458 B&M SA into another performance category! Well done.

Sam

Sam Chasing Turkey! LOL




OK OK, we have been over this a 1000 times now! 3 Sure Ways to Success in the field.

#1 Penetration

#2 Penetration

#3 Penetration

How do we get Penetration?

Flat Nose Profile
65% to 70% Meplat
Velocity
Twist Rate
Construction

I can see the files making chips now---BBW#13 Arrowheads!!!!!!!!! Might as well chip out those boys with sticks and bows some NonCons while you are at it!



Very Excellent story! You beat me to it! If you were not going to post it I was going to! HEH HEH......

Now all take heed, this is what happens when you don't get proper penetration! Yeah, go ahead with those Round Nose solids if you want to. Fine by me! Won't be me chasing an elephant down and having to choke his ass in the middle of a brier patch to get him to stop running!

LOL

Michael

Glenn,
Not Kidding.
Can't wait for the first fellow to come along and want one of Michael's Winchesters in a full on bamboo stock...maybe some ebony tip?
Nearly indestructible is right; tensile strength up there with (exceeding?) carbon fiber. Tough too. Excellent strength/weight ration in a natural product. Some even think it looks nice.

SB

EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION: IBT's BRILLIANT IDEA OF THE DECADE!!!!!

We need to have some display boards made up for sale which present the entire "line" of bullets developed as a result of this thread. The boards should permit replacement of individual bullets as new versons evolve. The board should also be "expandable" as new bullets are developed. Probably arrange by caliber with new panels attachable to the existing panels. All proceeds from sales to be held in trust by Michael to be invested in further design/development work.

Did my part, now somebody figure how to make this work.

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION: IBT's BRILLIANT IDEA OF THE DECADE!!!!!

We need to have some display boards made up for sale which present the entire "line" of bullets developed as a result of this thread. The boards should permit replacement of individual bullets as new versons evolve. The board should also be "expandable" as new bullets are developed. Probably arrange by caliber with new panels attachable to the existing panels. All proceeds from sales to be held in trust by Michael to be invested in further design/development work.

Did my part, now somebody figure how to make this work.

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION: IBT's BRILLIANT IDEA OF THE DECADE!!!!!

We need to have some display boards made up for sale which present the entire "line" of bullets developed as a result of this thread. The boards should permit replacement of individual bullets as new versons evolve. The board should also be "expandable" as new bullets are developed. Probably arrange by caliber with new panels attachable to the existing panels. All proceeds from sales to be held in trust by Michael to be invested in further design/development work.

Did my part, now somebody figure how to make this work.

Make em out of bamboo with the bullets mounted perpendicular to the board. Thataway yooz can lay it on it's legs (bullets) and use the back side as a cutting board ...

quote:

Originally posted by Stockbroker:
Glenn,
Not Kidding.
Can't wait for the first fellow to come along and want one of Michael's Winchesters in a full on bamboo stock...maybe some ebony tip?
Nearly indestructible is right; tensile strength up there with (exceeding?) carbon fiber. Tough too. Excellent strength/weight ration in a natural product. Some even think it looks nice.

SB

I'd like to see a bamboo stock "in the flesh", but in the photo they look good!

One of the reasons I went with the 416 B&M was the tested feeding, has anyone here tried Duane Weibes XRM unit for one more round down? Its sounds nice in theory but I sure dont want to screw up a rifle thats feeding great.

SSR

The CEB .458/420gr hollowpoints ought to work at least as well as S&H VHX .395/310gr "VeloHeXploders" now.

Good to hear the North Fork .500/450gr SP is on the way.
Powerful work at influence on a great bullet maker.
Those things will be great in anything from a pipsqueak 500 S&W revolver (which can use up to .700" bullet nose length) ... through 500 MDM and equally powerful "49/338LM."

I am one of only 0.25% of PhotoBucket users whose accounts are still down from the recent crash ...

CrossL

The Weibes 1 more down does look interesting. But 3 has been enough, and if I needed more just load up and go again. If 3 don't have them on the ropes, then 1 more won't matter. But I do like to shoot'em a lot, ask questions later! LOL


RIP

Yep, new 458 cavities are going to be dandy. I may start some Low Velocity--Low RECOIL work with them next week? Maybe? With Doctor approval? HEH..... Hey, they put regular stitches in, I thought that was a thing of the past? Getting them out, early this morning!

With some things going on with the 50 B&M Alaskan of late, I had to catch up with it. I had left the lever gun version on it's own for a few years. Still a wonderful hammer for the cartridge/rifle is the 500 Hornady, at 1850 fps this bullet is about as good as it would get for thin skinned critters. I think it's a little soft for buffalo however. But now, the new North Fork 450 gr bullet (that will work thru Marlins) is going to be THE go to bullet for most critters in this cartridge/lever gun combo. I think it can be combined with the 425 gr CEB BBW#13 Solid I have, and be a winning Lever gun combo for a variety of big game. I am excited about it coming soon. As I will also look at it very seriously in the 50 B&M in the bolt guns as well! The 50 B&M will drive this bullet at 2300 fps in it's short 18 inch tube, nothing to sneeze at!

For the 50 B&M North Fork shines--450 North Fork FPS-68% meplat--450 North Fork CPS Expanding, and add the 450 Bonded Core--excellent combo for anything that walks, breaths, horns and teeth!

Bump up to the velocity that the 500 MDM and your 49/338LM can churn up--look out, extreme trauma inflicted.

Also, do keep in mind this slight phenomena with North Fork Bonded bullets (still investigating this) Normally expanding conventionals, premiums included, more velocity, more upset, less penetration. Seems that the North Fork reacts some different, more velocity, more penetration? I have seen this often, but I really need to explore this more in depth as well. This 450 .500 bonded, will allow me to do that easy--50 B&M AK at 2000 fps---50 B&M at 2300 fps--and the 500 MDM at 2700 fps! That should do it!

Michael

Thinking up a new "Marketing Scheme"------ B&M In a Can! Canned B&M

You know, Like, Beanie Weanie!

So in the Non Con's is Brass the best for all game or is there a place where pure Copper is better?

Cheers
John

Canned B&M???
Hell Ya, I'd buy that.
Although it might be better as a Sparkling Beverage...LOL