Big bore rifles should be built and are built to a standard for calibre weight.The weight of the rifle is the best for that rifle and is not determined by what one specific person prefers or what recoil they can tolerate.A bolt action 458 Lott for example is built very near 9 3/4 lbs with open sights.A 450 double rifle is standard at around 11 lbs and a 500NE around 11 1/2.

Not sure the rifle cares how much it weighs. Pretty sure the person using it does.
Weight is a choice and people are the variable in that equation.
As we can see above, that variable yields widely varied results in the decision process.

The .505 SRE rifle I used on the three game animals mentioned above generated recoil as calculated below:


Recoil
Input Data
Charge Weight: 90.0 gr Muzzle Velocity: 2150.0 ft/s
Firearm Weight: 8.8 lb Bullet Weight: 570.0 gr
Output Data
Recoil Velocity: 26.9 ft/s Recoil Energy: 98.5 ft•lbs
Recoil Impulse: 7.3 lb•s
05-Jan-21 06:57, JBM/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

My loads produced the same performance as a .500 NE. In fact, I was using .500 NE bullets swaged down to .505" in my rifle.

In one instance I was able to put four aimed shots into the shoulder of a running Cape bufalo as it ran past, three of the shots were in a group I could have covered with a playing card, all in the shoulder area.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Not sure the rifle cares how much it weighs. Pretty sure the person using it does.
Weight is a choice and people are the variable in that equation.
As we can see above, that variable yields widely varied results in the decision process.

If you asked a world renowned gunmaker to build you a 458 Lott at 8lbs because you feel that is the ideal weight they might refuse-and I wouldn't blame them.Same for asking Holland and Holland to build you a double at some weird weight.

Pierre van der Walt, in African Dangerous Game Cartridges has a formula for what he calls 'Comfortable Shooting Mass'. Basically this is the muzzle energy in 1000's of ft-lbs corresponding to a CSM weight in Kg, so a .375 H&H (300 gr. bullet at 2,650 fps) producing 4,679 ft=lbs. ME should weigh in at 4.68 Kg or 10.3 lbs.

I have a .404 Jeffery being built and asked for it to be about 9.5 lbs with the Leupold 1-6X scope. According to wan der Walt's CSM formulae, a .404 400 gr. bullet with an MV of 2375 has ME of 5011 ft]lbs. This equates to a CSM of 5.01 Kg. - about 11 lbs. Heavier than the rifle weight I'm planning on.

I shoot my 7mm RM with near max 160 grain loads pretty well and do not suffer from recoil as it is stocked to fit. Thinking about the .404, I weighed this current rifle and was surprised to see it weighed 9lbs., 1 oz. with a heavy 2.5-10 S&B Summit scope and leather sling. Even as I am getting older it doesn't seem like a great burden when hunting.

The .404 being built, at 9.5 lbs., is intended to launch 400 grain bullets at about 2200 to 2250 fps (producing about 4200 - 4300 ft.lbs. ME so his CSM would be 4.2 KG, or 9.3 lbs. and I am wondering whether I am going too light?

I have an 8.5 lb factory 458wm that can match the Lott in bullet speed and pressure.
So I would politely thank the renowned gunmaker for their time and would have never asked Holland and Holland the question in the first place because I am the person and thus make the choices.
See how easy that is being unconstrained by staid convention?

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
I have an 8.5 lb factory 458wm that can match the Lott in bullet speed and pressure.
So I would politely thank the renowned gunmaker for their time and would have never asked Holland and Holland the question in the first place because I am the person and thus make the choices.
See how easy that is being unconstrained by staid convention?

A 8.5lbs 458WM??? Too light.

Yup. My whitetail gun again this year. That’s three of the last Four years on the Great Plains.
Haven’t found an elephant out here yet but I look every spring when the grass grows green and tall.
Been shooting this screwup since 1982. Don’t know how I’ve put up with it. I guess it’s just my cross to bare.

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Although I prefer a 8.5 to 9 lb. rifle in either a 375 or 416, more important is the stocking job..

A rifle that fits you and has some cast off is a pleasure to shoot even when some lighter...

I pretty much agree with Ray on the above, except I prefer just 8.5 lbs. for my 375, 404 Jeffery, and 458 Lott.

And his advice on stock fit, cast off, etc. is spot on of course.

Dude, 13 years to revive a post by agreeing with a comment and not mentioning necro-posting!

What's the record?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
(Regarding thread resurrection by surefire7)

Dude, 13 years to revive a post by agreeing with a comment and not mentioning necro-posting!

What's the record?

That is the record until proven otherwise.

Not sure what necro-posting is, but I still agree with the answer I posted 13 years ago!

We have a 8 lbs and a 7 lbs 458WM-do we have a 6 or 5 lbs??? Factory 4 lbs??? Old purple 3 lbs?? At least Winchester has the factory 458WM at 9 lbs and not less... and that is with a LOP of only 13 3/4.

The mixture of ignorance and absurdity has an awful smell. Can’t even imagine how it must taste.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
The mixture of ignorance and absurdity has an awful smell. Can’t even imagine how it must taste.

I am sure you can.

The 8-pounder becomes a 10-pounder quite easily when scoped and loaded and slung.
Apparently some can bearly see this fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Although I prefer a 8.5 to 9 lb. rifle in either a 375 or 416, more important is the stocking job..

A rifle that fits you and has some cast off is a pleasure to shoot even when some lighter...

I pretty much agree with Ray on the above, except I prefer just 8.5 lbs. for my 375, 404 Jeffery, and 458 Lott.

And his advice on stock fit, cast off, etc. is spot on of course.

Dude, 13 years to revive a post by agreeing with a comment and not mentioning necro-posting!

What's the record?

Dude, I am enjoying all of the comments and pics that I started. How about you?

RIP,

I had to laugh out loud at that last pic!

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
The mixture of ignorance and absurdity has an awful smell. Can’t even imagine how it must taste.

Remember who you're dealing with Fury. This Ready Aim Shoot fellow is actually Shootaway. Nuff said!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
The mixture of ignorance and absurdity has an awful smell. Can’t even imagine how it must taste.

Remember who you're dealing with Fury. This Ready Aim Shoot fellow is actually Shootaway. Nuff said!!

True dat !

quote:

Just for comparison the M1 Girand rifle of WW2 weighed from 9.5 lbs to 11.7 lbs empty. The carried this rifle loaded and other gear, all day long through any weather for weeks, months, and years or until they were dead.

And they would done the same even if they weighed 18lbs. That doesn't mean it was or was not the optimal weight for rapid target acquisition, transition, etc after a long day or week. It is what they had. We thankfully have options.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The 8-pounder becomes a 10-pounder quite easily when scoped and loaded and slung.
Apparently some can bearly see this fact.

too heavy


Ideal weight

Weird selfie by shootaway, used for his dating profile on line, hoping not to scare off boyfriends with his face while attracting them with his girlish figure.
True identity of Ready Aim Shoot:




Yep, he likes mustard on his biscuits.

Yep I knew who it was. Just hoping some reason might have crept in somehow. It appears not.

Yet another question posed that has no correct answer. Everybody is different. You have to balance carry weight and handling versus recoil attenuation.

quote:

Originally posted by Ready Aim Shoot:
Big bore rifles should be built and are built to a standard for calibre weight.The weight of the rifle is the best for that rifle and is not determined by what one specific person prefers or what recoil they can tolerate.A bolt action 458 Lott for example is built very near 9 3/4 lbs with open sights.A 450 double rifle is standard at around 11 lbs and a 500NE around 11 1/2.

Not sure where you get these figures.

My double 500 3 1/4” NE was 10lbs 10oz, same weight it left H&H at in 1906.

My double 500/450 3 1/4” weighs 10lbs 7oz.

Beautifully balanced rifles and a joy to carry and shoot.

I have an early 375 Belted Magnum magazine rifle that weighs 8lb 2oz and is nice to shoot too.

Whatever floats your boat. But I do find well balanced rifles that fit much nicer to shoot, no matter the weight.

I must be RIP's brother by a different mother.

458 Lott Montana V2
Weight with steel mounts 7# 15oz.
Add Fastfire 3 and 3 rounds 8# 6 1/4 oz.

I even drilled a hole and moved the sling eye to the front of the stock like he did.

Oddly enough it seems to kick harder offhand, than on the bench. Must be the way I lay my cheek on the stock. On the bench, it ain't that bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Arniet:
I must be RIP's brother by a different mother.

458 Lott Montana V2
Weight with steel mounts 7# 15oz.
Add Fastfire 3 and 3 rounds 8# 6 1/4 oz.

I even drilled a hole and moved the sling eye to the front of the stock like he did.

Oddly enough it seems to kick harder offhand, than on the bench. Must be the way I lay my cheek on the stock. On the bench, it ain't that bad.

You could be in for a pounding.

I made my case earlier, but the truth is I don't care what it weighs as long as it shoots everytime I pull the triggr, doesn't jam, and is sighted in, I can take anything for two or three shots..Some of the European slinder schnable guns Ive killed buffalo with in big caliber were lovely to pack around all day, kicked like a mule, but at the time it did't bother me at all..Sighting in was more fun that you can imagine!! NOT

Ive noticed my 8.5 lb. 404 weighs about 12 pounds at mile 8 and 15 pounds at mile 15 and the damn sight act like they get loose!! is it just me?

my 375 is about 8lbs with scope (2.5-10x30) - perfect.

404 with scope is 10.8 lbs. Good news? When I get home all of my other rifles feel light!

My 308 Win (22.4" barrel) with scope, 5 rounds ammo, sling and suppressor is just over 7 lbs!

I have some heavy-ass rifles. I just put a M70 Classic stainless 22” barrel, 375 H&H, no sights with Weaver bases, in a H-S Precision stock. Trial fit for a project.
Weighed it, 8 pounds 10.3 ounces. Ironically it feels good to me. But that feel ain’t after carrying it for a day, with sights and scope.

My sweet spot for the heavy kickers is at 10.5 to 11 lbs scoped and loaded. While I like a carry rifle at 8lbs , even the recoil of a 375H&H in that 8-9lb range is unpleasant for me. After carrying around a 10 1/2 lb rifle in the heat for 8 miles I am ready for a gun bearer.

I just had a .375 H&H built. Rifle weighs in at 7 lb. 2 oz. Add about a pound for scope and it is perfect. D'Arcy Echols stock with 14.5" LOP, 22" Proof barrel and it is perfectly balanced.

Recoil lasts but for a fraction of a second, while gravity never ceases.

I have one of the MRC V2, 458 Lott also.
It weighs 9 pounds 10.3 ounces with a 1-6x24 mm and current mounting configuration.
I have plans for changing the sights, and trimming the barrel to 22”. I have not shot it from the bench yet. I have shot it standing off a tripod. It took me a few shots to sort out how to position the tripod legs and my hand grip on the forend. I really like the feel of this rifle. My body’s felt-recoil-gauge is convinced it recoils less than my heavier CZ 458 Lott. But, the CZ is on the list for a LOP reduction.

——————————————————————————————————-

quote:

Originally posted by Arniet:
I must be RIP's brother by a different mother.

458 Lott Montana V2
Weight with steel mounts 7# 15oz.
Add Fastfire 3 and 3 rounds 8# 6 1/4 oz.

I even drilled a hole and moved the sling eye to the front of the stock like he did.

Oddly enough it seems to kick harder offhand, than on the bench. Must be the way I lay my cheek on the stock. On the bench, it ain't that bad.