I shot a nice size doe with my SS 54cal Knight Predator using 80 Grs of Pyro and a round ball in the rain at 85yards. She dropped stone dead with one shot to the shoulder neck area.

Gentlemen, I am absolutely thrilled to see so many traditional muzzle loaders in this thread!

This is a refreshing thread that IMO brings back the original reason for hunting with muzzle loaders, hunting with primitive firearms.

It seems this type of hunting has been taken over with scope sighted bolt or break-top rifles that the only resemblance to a real smoke pole is the fact that the powder and bullet is crammed down from the muzzle. What has happened to the old buck-skinners, with real muzzleloaders?

I've hunted for many years with REAL vintage muzzleloaders, mainly with original flint lock Penn rifles and patched round ball, and one original caplock Hawken 54 cal

Now I have a 45 cal caplock Wesson, a 50 caplock cal TC hawken and a Pedersoli 58 cal cap lock double rifle, all using real black powder, and patched round ball, pulled from a possibles bag.

Good show gentlemen!

Mac, when you were a kid, patched round balls were all that was available!!! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Mac, when you were a kid, patched round balls were all that was available!!! :-)

When I started hunting the spear hadn't been perfected yet, and was still experimental.

.......................................................................

LOL! God bless ya'll!

Started using a TC Hawken in the early 90's in northern Indiana. Patched round balls and Goex have accounted for 98% of my deer and my Buffalo. Also have a CVA Kentucky rifle that was a kit, have taken several deer with it. Picked up a Traditions Hawken last year from a friend, just have to shorten the stock and work up a round ball load. Note to all. Buffalo was a med size cow shot at 80 yrds. First shot hung up in the opposite shoulder, and she was going down. Second was a few inches back and was a pass thru. Have never lost a deer shot with round ball.

Being a flintlock man I cast and shoots prb exclusively. The simple prb is an ample killer and I've never needed more than one shot....and I'm not that great of a shot.

My first critter taken with black powder and a prb was a bobcat. Then got another a week later.

quote:

Originally posted by Supercracker:
But I got a clean double lung and a blood trail a vegetarian could follow.

Nice story Supercracker.

Your line about the vegetarian reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw:

Vegetarian: Old Indian Word For Poor Hunter

JPK

Probably as with many of you guys I have been hunting with muzzleloaders since the early 1970's. All I have ever used is the PRB in many different muzzleloaders. Probably 15 years ago I went entirely flintlock and a 36 cal. Southern Mountain rifle is my main squirrel rifle. I have a couple 54's and a 20 bore fowler I use interchangeably for deer. The farthest I have had a deer go is about 60 yards and most have fallen within sight, 20 yards or less. If I have learned anything in close to 40 years of hunting with muzzleloaders and PRB's it is as Sam Fadala once said, (at least I believe it was him), "a round ball kills all out of proportion to its paper ballistics". I have complete confidence in them.

I don't have but one picture and it isn't that good of the rifle. I used to reenact a great deal and the one picture I have is of me after an spring squirrel hunt. It was pretty cool that morning and the capote felt good!! And yes, even my glasses are period correct, gen-u-wine Ben Franklin type bifocals....lol!!

Back about 2005, I was doing an outdoor television show. I was invited to come to Quebec to hunt caribou. My son (who was my cameraman), another cameraman and I drove to Montreal, flew into Schefferville and flew out to caribou camp, hoping to shoot one each (my son and I both got tags) with a bow and with a muzzleloader rifle.

The day we flew into camp, we had some time in the afternoon, so we were shooting at a bleach bottle put out to mark a rock pile in the lake. It was laser ranged at 230 yards. As we only were shooting .54 caliber Hawkin style rifles, we were at a considerable disadvantage to the guys shooting scoped centerfire rifles. But through "windage and elevation", we were able to hit the bottle a time or two with patched round balls. And I'm glad we had that practice.

Three days later, with time running out in the hunt, I had given up my bow and was carrying the smoke pole exclusively. We found a nice bull bedded down on a windswept ridge with several cows feeding around the area. We stalked as close as possible, but ran out of anything remotely resembling cover at about the 150 yard mark.

With a small rock for cover, we got the camera on the bull while I lined up the shot. Remembering the practice shots from several days earlier, I held waaaaaay into the wind and high above the bull. Saying a prayer to all the hunting gods, I pressed the trigger.

It seemed forever for the ball to reach the bull, but there was a definite THWOCK sound and he staggered off, over the back side of the hill and out of sight.

I frantically reloaded and we ran up to where we had last seen the bull. He fell off the side of the hill and slid about 25 feet where we found him.

That's my best muzzleloader story.....

Gents-
Great stories and photos on p. 1 & p. 2.
Nice rifles, downed deer, caribou and a swell capote too!
Congrats!

I am very inexperienced with muzzleloaders and black powder, but was blessed yesterday with my first success. I will post the proper story soon. Anyway, four patched roundballs (hardened lead from car batteries, I believe, made by a kind bloke in Queensland and sent to me to get me started on my journey) did the trick. The rifle is my new-to-me thirty-ish year old CVA Mountain Rifle in .54".

Excellent animal BenKK! That is awesome!

And awesome story Shof!

This post got me to thinking back on all the deer I have killed with a muzzleloader using only round balls. After thinking about it, I find that there is no way I could begin to count how many there were. I know there were truck loads shot with my .45 caliber longrifle.

I did figured out however, that I have been hunting whitetails in Iowa for 51 years, beginning in 1963, most of those years I used my 45 caliber longrifle, or some other gun using round balls. I liked using them because I could shoot further and more accurately with them than the guys using slug guns. My first "deer gun" was a .58 caliber Hawken that weighed 13 pounds, it didn't take me long to find something lighter to use on deer.

I used to group hunt with a bunch of guys and there were years I shot 10 or 12 deer, other years I might only get one. Two or three years I didn't get any, either because I was laid up sick or was too lazy to get out in our weather.

To the best of my knowledge, I never lost a single deer using the .45 Southern Mountain flintlock rifle, the same cannot be said of some of my bigger rifles. I did try some REAL bullets for awhile but found that I didn't need them, and that the round balls made of dead soft lead did just as well for killing deer.

For overall deer killing, I think the .54 caliber Hawken rifle I had was the best of all of them. The .54 holds up it's speed and energy well for as far as I want to shoot at deer with a muzzleloader. It shoots relatively flat out to 125 yards or so and hits with authority.

Kind of like birdhunter I can't count mine but it isn't because of quantity, I simply can't remember!!!!! However, it's been several, over 10 I believe. Farthest I ever had one go was about 40 yards and the longest shot was approximately 75 yards. I agree with birdhunter about the 54 cal. as most were taken with that caliber. 50's and 45's also accounted for a couple. The one thing about a round ball is that it kills completely out of proportion to its paper ballistics.

My second success came today with this young scrub bull and roundballs from automotive batteries. The rifle is the .54" CVA Mountain Rifle. Kind regards, Ben

Superb Ben, simply superb!!!

That is awesome Ben!! I am jealous!

that's awesome BenKK.

im 34yrs old, so my first mz that i saved and purchased myself was an inline

my dad started hunting with i believe a cva renegade when i was a kid, in the mid to late 80s. that was the first mz i hunted with once he graduated to an early Knight inline.

i remember a deer hanging off my swingset and "helping" him skin it, and finding the old smashed up round ball in the deer. he also used the large lead bullets until sabots came on the market. i had forgetten about that memory until i saw this thread.

i had to wait a few years to be able to take that old mz hunting, i could barely hold it up with that big heavy octagon barrel.

I have shot one deer and one elk with my Lyman Great Plains 54 cal. muzzle loader with round ball..which its twisted for. It kills whatever you hit with it if the shot is place right and they don't make many tracks it seems, but two head of game tells not me much!!

I have not shot it since about 2000 AD, that was 15 plus years ago..I had to try a muzzle loader, a pistol, and a bow in my life...I much prefer a modern rifle these days, but this thread tweeked my interest I have to admit, so maybe, just maybe, I'll sit in my Texas stand next year and pop a Lometa, Klondike, or Goldwaite, Texas whitetail with the smokepole.

I used an old original English double this year on opening day in a muzzleloader area near my house. The rifle was re-built by my uncle years ago by boring out the Damascus barrels, re-rifling (same twist, #grooves, and land width), then re-assembled and re-regulated. He also fixed the broken stock, made new forend furniture, spliced in new walnut where some was missing. Overall he fixed it up to look like a cared for rifle that was used here and there. After freshening the barrels they ended up around 10 ga size and a cast roundball weighs very close to 700 grains. His load was 110gr of old DuPont black, don't know the velocity but the folding express sights are marked foe 100, 150, and 200 yards. I recently inherited this rifle after he passed away a few years ago and thought it needed to see the woods again. Took two shots at 60 yards and both barrels shot to point of aim, only 1.5 inches apart dead center, so,I took it hunting. Had three deer come by early opening morning and the lead doe stopped at about 75 yards facing directly at me. I must have held a little proud on the front sight as the prb struck her directly below the chin, dropping her on the spot with no meat damage... Was a very memorable drag out with that 150+ Year old rifle slung over my shoulder.

I've never shot anything with my bp yet. I did carry it a few evenings in hopes of getting a shot at a muley buck we'd seen several times. Just didn't pan out.

A Friend insisted I get a M/L. Lacking money or much interest, yet wanting to try it I got a CVA Grey Wolf .54 (in case I wanted to try it on elk). It has a 26"? 32" twist, it's a decent ball shooter fairly close. I haven't shot balls very far, mostly I use the heavy .54 REAL, cast with hard stuff like I use for pistol bullets. Didn't realize til I had 0lbs cast up that they'd be hell getting down the bore. Too many to melt down so I've just been shooting them up.

I shot in the bp match's a the range and couldn't hit much as I couldn't see the front sight. Talking it over with someone I was told to paint the front sight white. From dead last of 15 shooters I was 3rd the next several times. I ordered a 3/32" white spot Williams front and adjustable rear for about $20 the set. Since then I've been 2nd and 3rd place nearly all the time and even won a couple times.
Try that white front sight trick if you can't see to shoot very well with a black one.

Those slugs were
so hard to get started I had the muzzle relief bored, drop 'em in and ram them down. They're very accurate out to 190 yards or so. Hard to make 'em hit the 200 meter Ram, but, when they do, I've found 2" dia lead disks, so they have plenty of impact yet.

BillQ: Measure and weigh that barrel! I had Ed Rayl make a 1 1/8" oct, 38" twist, 38" long that just the barrel and plug weighs exactly 7 lbs. I'm sure once I get the gun finished it won't be less than 12lbs. This is a .72 cal/same as 12bore. It slugs .735". I had a Lee 1oz slug mold bored out that throws a slug 1160gr. Forgot to cut lube grooves so it's no good, have to make another one. It sure makes a fine looking slug though. Take the sprue plate off and stick the pots spout down in the hole in the blocks, just as it starts to set up, twist it and pull it away. Makes a lovely 1/8" deep, 3/8" dia hollow point.

I had a scissors type RB mold .715" I think it is, made by Dixie, $35 it seems. I've never cast a ball with it yet so don't know what they'll weigh.

Ed Rayl said: "figure max at 1400gr slug and 240gr FFg, but, start lighter and you'll never reach max before recoil changes your mind".

I want to make the stock a "Classic rifle stock". I've had a nice chunk of Oregon maple for years and can't find anyone to turn the shape I want. I'm not a wood carver but with a roughed out shape I can finish them nicely. anyone around here that can help, please contact me.

Fellow from oz: $100 bucks says that's NOT car battery lead, it's most likely wheel weights, they're hard lead. IF you can barely scratch it with a thumb nail, it's close to 8bn hardness. Just about right for pistols and will deform ok on game.

Great thread guys, lets have more of it.
George

Thinking back and correcting my above post, I shot the elk with a real heavy simi wadcutter special made hard lead bullet by a friend of mine..The deer I shot was with a Hornady Round ball..In my 54 cal. Lyman plainsgame rifle..I would not hesitate to shoot an elk with a 54 cal. round ball however...and I have seen it done more than a few times by a good friend of mine. It was twisted for RB and the big bullet was much less accurate with about 5" groups at 50 and 75 yards..buts that's plenty for elk, lots of target there.

I now have a round ball barrel and a slug barrel for that gun..both shoot around 1 to 2 inches at 75 yards, sometimes a bit better.

I have a 58 cal 1-60'twist barrel in the bin for a future English sporting rifle. To my mind they are a classic style hunting rifle. The blank is a straight taper and I'll likely swamp it before use to lighten it up but that will be my rifle for a western elk hunt down the road.

Matt

One fall a buddy and I were squirrel hunting during a deer season. Walking down a trail in thick forest edge. A doe came up the trail and we froze. I quietly pulled my Ruger Old Army out of the cross draw and put one in the white patch of her neck. She dropped so fast I thought I missed. She had just disappeared. Then she kicked for a bit and I knew she fell backwards down the trail. Found the round ball under the hide where it had followed the spine a ways down. It just didn't have the power to exit the neck. That was less than a couple of yards range and I think not quite 40 gr powder. I used 3F. It was a tasty doe. Haven't ever shot a big rack buck. Won't turn him down though if he says shoot me, at any reasonable range.

First game I took with a round ball was with a CVA 50cal it took the head plumb off a rabbit at about 10ft sitting in the snow. I was about 20years old forty years ago.

My hunting buddy for a while did the ML thing .He had that very fine Browning before people realized it was expensive but twice the quality of the others .He bought his for 1/2 the price !!

He used it in the regular season along with all the attachments ,red blanket coat etc! On the way back that day he stopped at a store to pick up things .He said everyone in the store looked at him but no one said a word !!

Been using TC HAWKINS .50 CAL FLINTLOCK,1-48 TWIST FROM 1962..

Lots of stories on hunting Buck...

If anyone likes they can PM me on advice I know TC HAWKIN flintlocks and what works and does not work..As for roundball I tried all new stuff but I still like Patch/ball ,very accurate and cheaper to shoot ..

My posts above go back many years, I am just now getting back into ML..Ive forgotten a lot, and a lot has changed..and Ihave a new Antonia Zoli Zouave 58 cal Buffalo Hunter carbing with a 26 inch barrel..Have no clue how to load it other than what Ive read recently..

I read Val Forgetts African Adventure with his 58 Buffalo Hunter (just like mine) and he used a 130 gr. of ffG with a special 610 gr. Minnie on Hippo, elephant, Lion et al..was very pleased with it...

On this black powder thread I see almost everyone shooting 80 grs with a lighter Minnie, the difference between 80 and Vals 130 raises a red flag in my smokeless powder brain!! What goes here..All his loads in the book are double what folks are using here..Yet, he is the master of black powder shooting it seems..Is recoil the difference or pressure, Val also quotes PSI with his loads.

only changes I made recently is making sure hammer hits frizzen at 55 degrees using protractor and going to 3f powder in my .50 cal hawkins ..Using white flints from friends mine in misssori ...

50 yards with patch/ball hitting almost same hole with peep sight...The 54 cal is deadly roundball shooter for sure if Iwas going to buy a new muzz it would be 54 cal but my .50 cal is fine ....

Not a muzzle loader, but I used roundballs for waterbuff in Oz in 2012 . They worked just fine!

Recovered 1500 grain balls. Despite a MV of over 1500fps they look fine



Ball just breaking the skin


Hunt report thread:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...8321043/m/3051069671

Bob

In my business I have witnessed a few deer and elk shot with the 58 and 54, with round ball and minnies, they were both successful, the 58 was definatly the better killer..I know two men that have shot literally hundreds of PG and a number of deer and elk, they both tell me the 58 is in a relm of its own with the round ball as to killing power, they also told me that if you want penetration you need to slow them down a bit, and that makes since to me..If you want expansion load them fast..I will be using round balls in my 58 based on that and what Ive seen, its kinda like sticking a baseball bat thru a deer and they go down and you can eat to the hole.

I guess it makes since to shoot elk with a 58 inasmuch as elk traveled a good ways with the 54, but left decent blood trails. they make few tracks with the 58 and ran out of blood in a hurry. Enough to make me an expert?, nope just enough to give me a general idea, and that is bigger guns kill better than smaller guns, and I suspect this is magnified with muzzle loaders. and I guarantee it in modern firearms.

Omnivorous_Bob that is an awesome cartridge/rifle!!!

I'd love to have one to hunt with here in TX

Atkinson

One can also cast them out of a little harder lead to "improve" penetration.

I've been casting lead from wheel weights. Flux and use. I've heard this is sometimes tougher....I am also using the same lead for my Crappie fishing jigs.

Well this thread got me back into muzzle loading. Since it started I have purchased a 58 cal. Navy Arms Buffalo hunter carbine, and a Navy Arms Hawkin to go along with my old Lymand PG 54 caliber...Asked a lot of questions and got brought up to date on MLing, its changed a good deal sine I returned to it. but getting lot of help and advise on AR...Ive probably seen as many animals killed with MLs as anyone but my actual killing of game is only a couple of animals..Im having a ball shooting the old guns..

The new neighbors, California cast aways, complained, I told the to move to town, I was here first and its legal in the county, as long as you don't point it at anybody..so far Im still legal.

So, how you doing with that lead slinging smoke pole by now Ray? Still plan to use it this fall for gettin some meat?

Had my old Grey Wolf stolen along with 5 other guns. Just bought a new Hawken .54 this summer. Haven't even loaded it yet.
Still have 3/4 3# coffee can full of those hard cast heavy REAL's I plan to use in this one too. It has a 38" twist same as the other did. Nicer looking gun with all the brass, double set trigger and WOOD this time, not ugly plastic. Don't know about the brass butt yet with this new replaced shoulder. I'd sure hate to wreck the shoulder.

Sure hope I can get over all these health problems so I can get back to hunting again, I sure miss it.

George

Stay with roundball/patch with 54 cal.Those reals or max-balls kick ..54 is deadly gun with rb ..We use hawkins 50 cal.

you can load lower grs for practice and no kick..we use nothing but 3 f ..

They didn't kick too bad with the straight classic shaped plastic stock. Only thing I'm thinking is the brass butt might be harder.

Sight I ordered was about .010" too wide. Thought I could use the g/smiths file and do it myself while bsing with him. But, he set it aside along with my other two rifles to work on later. No rush this time of year anyway. Won't notice the charge for it with the other work. Rebarrel a 300win, and finish the feeding problem on another one.

Thanks for the suggestion, I still have 8lbs of FFg and don't think I have any 3F. That settles the question quite well.

George

georgeld,
I shot them a lot and played with them and intended to hunt with them but had some lung issues and found out I have COPD Emphasima, Copd means I have lost some lung space and they don't really know what Ive got..The doctors have never figured out old age is the culprit..Anyway I quit shooting muzzle loaders for that reason and have them up for sale..I used a 30-06 for two bucks, and my 25-35 and a couple of other guns for culling does this year..I dislike culling, but it sure is a good way to test cartridges and bullets. Having to gut, skin and quarter and haul a pickup load to the butcher to cut and package for the different orphanages etc. is damn labor intensive these days for an old man.d I lasted 2 days..They were supposed to shot 165 does this year, but the owner thought half that many was plenty and I agreed with him on that.