January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 10: "A lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat"
February 23: "We've had no deaths."
February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
February 29: "Coronovirus is Democrats' New Hoax."
February 29: “China seems to be making tremendous progress. Their numbers are way down. … I think our relationship with China is very good. We just did a big trade deal. And we’ve been working very closely. They’ve been talking to our people, we’ve been talking to their people, having to do with the virus.”
March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly. We are prepared for anything.”
March 2: "Pharmaceutical companies are going “to have vaccines, I think, relatively soon.” March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9: “This blindsided the world.”
March 10: "It will go away, be calm. It's really working out. We want to protect our cruise industry."
March 10: "Over a million tests have been distributed, and before the end of this week, another 4 million tests will be distributed.".
March 13: "I am declaring a National Emergency."
March 15: "Relax, we are doing great"
March 16: "I'd rate it a 10 (his response). A month ago no one ever thought about it."
March 24: “Wouldn't it be great to have all the churches full on Easter?”
March 29: “masks going out the back door in New York”
March 30: "I haven't heard about testing being a problem."
April 3: "No Problem Whatsoever"
April 13: "The federal government has absolute power"
April 16: "It's up to the states"
April 17: "Liberate Michigan"
April 20: "The US death toll could reach 50,000"
April 23: “Supposing you brought the light inside the body - either through the skin or some other way,” or disinfectants “by injections inside or almost a cleaning.”
April 27: "we are probably heading to 60,000 to 70,000"
May 3: “We’re going to lose anywhere from 75, 80 to 100,000 people"
May 8: “This is going to go away without a vaccine, it’s gonna go away, and we’re not going to see it again”
May 14: "If we didn't do any testing we would have very few cases."
May 22: "I've tested positively towards the negative"
June 6: "US largely through Pandemic"
June 15: "If we stop testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any.”
June 20: " So I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'"
July 2: "The pandemic is getting under control.”
July 26: “We now have the lowest Fatality (Mortality) Rate in the World.”
Sept. 21: "It affects virtually nobody"
Oct. 5: "Maybe I'm immune"
Oct. 7: "Getting Covid a blessing from God"
Oct. 28: US rounding the curve"
Nov. 21: G20 meets on Coronovirus, Trump goes golfing

Trump tells Woodward the above statements were all contrary to what he knew on Feb 7th 2020.

US now leading the world in cases and DEATHS………

12.3 MILLION Cases
257,000+ Deaths

and climbing. 4% of the world's population and 20% of the deaths.

Some curve......

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Is Trump a fascist? 8 experts weigh in.
Call him a kleptocrat, an oligarch, a xenophobe, a racist, even an authoritarian. But he doesn’t quite fit the definition of a fascist.
By Dylan Matthewsdylan@vox.com Oct 23, 2020, 12:00pm EDT
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Trump holds a rally in West Virginia in 2018. Mandel Ngan/AFP via Getty Images
Is Donald Trump a fascist?

That question emerged in various forms pretty early in his 2016 presidential campaign, which began with a speech railing against Mexican immigrants, and gained steam after he called for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States” in December 2015, as a response to the San Bernardino terrorist attack.

At that point, the Muslim ban proposal, I contacted five fascism experts and asked them if Trump qualified. They all said no. Every one of them stated that to be a fascist, one must support the revolutionary, usually violent overthrow of the entire government/Constitution, and reject democracy entirely. In 2015, none were comfortable saying Trump went that far. He was too individualist for the inherently collectivist philosophy of fascism, and not sufficiently committed to the belief that violence is good for its own sake, as a vital cleansing force.

Roger Griffin, the author of The Nature of Fascism and a professor of history at Oxford Brookes University, summed it up well: “You can be a total xenophobic racist male chauvinist bastard and still not be a fascist.”

Five years have now passed, and the fascism questions have only grown more frequent. Trump has had time to implement quite anti-immigrant and anti-Black policies, and refused to denounce his most extreme and violent supporters, from the neo-Nazis and white nationalists in Charlottesville to the Proud Boys group. And every week, I receive dozens of emails from readers wondering if I stand by my conclusion in 2015, that Trump is simply a bigot with an authoritarian streak, not a fascist.

So I reached out to the experts I talked to back then. Four of the five replied, and I also got in touch with a few more scholars who have researched fascism to get a broader view.

The responses were, again, unanimous, albeit tinged with much greater concern about Trump’s authoritarian and violent tendencies. No one thinks Trump is a fascist leader, full stop. Jason Stanley, a Yale philosopher and author of How Fascism Works, came closest to that conclusion, saying that “you could call legitimately call Trumpism a fascist social and political movement” and that Trump is “using fascist political tactics,” but that Trump isn’t necessarily leading a fascist government.

But most experts did not even go that far, and some expressed concern that describing Trump as a fascist undermines the term and leads to a misanalysis of our current political situation. “If Trump was a fascist and we were in a situation akin to Germany in 1932 or Italy in 1921, certain kinds of actions would be justified,” Sheri Berman, a professor of political science at Barnard College, says. “But we are not and they are not.”

To be clear, “not fascist” is a very, very low bar for Trump to clear. The concerns that lead people to ask the question “Is Trump a fascist?” are real. Trump really is trying to discredit the coming presidential election. He really has hired officials with ties to white nationalist groups. He really did promise to ban all Muslims from the US (and implemented new rules toward that goal), said that a Mexican American judge is unfit to preside over cases involving him, called Mexican immigrants “rapists,” empathized with neo-Nazis after Charlottesville, and falsely claimed Muslim Americans celebrated the 9/11 attacks — among many, many transgressions.


But things could always get worse. There really are leaders who suspend elections, dissolve legislatures, throw large numbers of citizens into camps without trial or appeal, who turn their nations into one-party states oriented around a cult of national rebirth. The fascist leaders of the past, the University of Texas’s Jason Brownlee notes, “not only pursued right-wing policies, they also built-up mass-mobilizing parties and paramilitary organizations with the goal of sweeping aside alternative movements and establishing single-party dictatorship.”

That hasn’t happened here — but it could. It came terrifyingly close to happening in Greece, where the explicitly neo-Nazi Golden Dawn became the third-largest political party in the mid-2010s. And if and when it does happen in America, we need to have the right terms and tools to confront it.

Robert Paxton, Mellon professor emeritus of social sciences, Columbia University
I stand by what I have already written about Trump and fascism, but there is one change: I am struck now with Trump’s growing willingness to employ physical violence.

Before, Trump was already willing to tolerate some roughing-up of hecklers at rallies, and his encouragement of the “lock her up!” refrain was clearly transgressive (in America we are supposed to wait for the decision of a jury of citizens before locking someone up). But now, after Charlottesville, we have the Proud Boys and the aggression against the governor of Michigan. So Trump gets closer to having his own SA [the Nazi paramilitary group], a sobering thought as the election approaches.

But there is still no state management of the economy here (as there was to a degree in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy). Trump is content to aid business by reducing government protections of the environment and of workers … and his economic policy is mainly just to let businessmen do what they want, So I still think terms like “oligarchy” and “plutocracy” work for Trump, with the added thought that he is close to crossing the line with his toleration of violence.

Matthew Feldman, director, Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right
Although my position has not changed on Trump — less fascist than kleptocrat, more egoist than radical-right ideologue — that does little to mitigate the danger.

Four months ago, I warned that Trump was descending into naked authoritarianism. Low-information commentators seek to reassure rather than dig deeply, telling readers to look on the bright side. That the US is an exceptional country.

It is not.


Democratic regression and political polarization are not unique to the US. Having more guns than people is. So are militias, usually formed of lower- and middle-class white Americans harboring anti-government sentiments. The threat posed by these anti-government extremists — though not necessarily terrorists — was thrown into relief when at least 13 members of Michigan’s Wolverine Militia were arrested for planning to kidnap, “judge,” and potentially execute for treason the state’s governor, Gretchen Whitmer.

The term “fascist” regarding Trump continues to mislead rather than inform. But that cannot inure us to what Alexander Reid Ross has called the “fascist creep.”

Stanley Payne, Jaume Vicens Vives and Hilldale professor emeritus of history, the University of Wisconsin Madison
This inquiry made a little sense four years ago, when Trump was still an unknown quantity, but now he has a record. Well — that’s pretty thin gruel. Nothing much to work with here. The Democrats won the first election under Trump [the 2018 midterms], and I’m not aware of anything negative happening. Straining at gnats doesn’t really get us anywhere. Mostly these are just silly public remarks. Hitler’s place in history is not based on his remarks, nor for any temporary detention cages. Please do not trivialize. That indicates absence of an argument.

Roger Griffin, emeritus professor in modern history, Oxford Brookes University
His relationship to democracy, I would really insist, is the key to answering whether he’s a fascist or not. Even in four years of incoherent and inconsistent tweets, he’s never actually done a Putin and tried to make himself a permanent president, let alone suggest any coherent plan for overthrowing the constitutional system. And I don’t even think that’s in his mind. He is an exploiter, he’s a freeloader. He’s a wheeler and dealer. And that is not the same as an ideologue.

So he’s absolutely not a fascist. He does not pose a challenge to constitutional democracy. He certainly poses a great challenge to liberalism and liberal democracy. And I think real favor will be served by journalists who, instead of seeing liberal democracy as a single entity, see it as a binomial. Democracy can exist without liberalism.

If I was doing this as a bottom line in some debate, I’d say that Trump is not a fascist, but what he is quite consistently is an illiberal democrat. He is a democrat to the extent that he’s used democratic processes to be where he is, which he doesn’t radically challenge. He obviously plays fast and loose, like any wheeler dealer, with things like the Supreme Court, who he gets in, etc. He doesn’t care about the rules, but the core system he doesn’t want to change, because he’s somebody who’s profited by that system.


Basically, I think it matters whether we call Trump fascist or not fascist, not academically or intellectually, but because it’s a red herring — it actually diverts attention from where we should be doing the critique. If all our intellectual energies are, like Don Quixote, jousting with windmills and fascism, instead of actually jousting with the real enemies of democracy, and using our energies to avert the climate crisis, which is going to engulf us all, if we’re not careful, then we’re wasting our time.

By not calling him fascist, and concentrating on the way he perverts democracy, we see Trump in a different context. We don’t see him as Hitler or Mussolini. We see him in a different rogues’ gallery. And the rogues’ gallery is made up of a whole load of dictators throughout history, including Putin and Erdogan and Orbán and Assad today, who have abused constitutionalism and democracy to rationalize their abuse of power and their crimes against humanity.

Sheri Berman, professor of political science, Barnard College, Columbia University
On Trump and fascism, unlike what has become an almost majority view, I do not like applying that term to Trump or to what is going on in this country.

Partially this is for historical and intellectual reasons — just like we shouldn’t call every horrible example of ethnic violence or even ethnic cleansing “genocide” (or say that it is another Holocaust), so I think we should be careful with comparing Trump to Hitler. Genocide means something: It is an attempt to wipe out an entire people, using the full force of the modern state. Similarly, national socialism or, more broadly, fascism was a totalitarian ideology and political regime that wanted to do away not only with liberalism and democracy but to revolutionize society, economy, and politics. That’s not the same as any old dictatorship, even a nasty one, and that is not where we are today.

That said, just as ethnically based violence or ethnic cleansing shares some characteristics with genocide/the Holocaust, so too does Trump bear similarities to other strongmen, a category in which fascists like Hitler and Mussolini belong, as do Orbán, Erdogan, Putin, and their ilk. That Trump maintains his support by engaging in explicitly divisive appeals designed to pit groups against each other — particularly but not exclusively ethnic groups — also, of course, bears some similarity to what fascists did.

And, of course, Trump is undermining various norms and institutions of democracy. But this doesn’t make him a fascist, which means much more than these things. Indeed, I almost think calling Trump “fascist” gives him too much “credit” — he isn’t strategic enough, ideological enough, or ambitious enough. And as bad as things are today, we are still not in 1930s Germany.


But alongside these historical and intellectual reasons, I also don’t like applying the term fascist to Trump for practical reasons. If Trump was a fascist and we were in a situation akin to Germany in 1932 or Italy in 1921, certain kinds of actions would be justified. But we are not, and they are not. And that remains important to stress, even though that does not mean downplaying the real threat Trump and the version of the Republican Party that is backing him represents to our country.

I think Trump often engages in what the political science literature refers to as “ethnic outbidding.” Even more fitting, in my view, is the term “negative integration” — a strategy of unifying a coalition by whipping up fear/hatred of purported enemies. Bismarck was the classic practitioner of the negative integration strategy.

As for Trump overall, I would still prefer referring to him as an illiberal populist or right-wing populist. He has a lot in common with the right-wing populists roaming around Europe today.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat, professor of Italian and history, New York University
Trump certainly uses fascist tactics, from holding rallies to refresh the leader-follower bond to creating a “tribe” (MAGA hats, rituals like chanting “lock them up,” etc.) to unleashing a volume of propaganda without precedent by an American president. Yet the political cultures that form him and his close supporters are not fascist, but reflect a broader authoritarian history. Paul Manafort and Roger Stone worked for [Congolese dictator] Mobutu Sese Seko and [Philippine President] Ferdinand Marcos before Trump, and Manafort also worked for Putin. They worked on Marcos’s 1986 election that was widely denounced as fraudulent.

Trump’s role models include leaders like Erdogan and Putin who are not exactly fascists, but something more: authoritarians, or strongman rulers who also use virility as a tool of domination.

I also favor authoritarian over fascist as a description for Trump because the former captures how autocratic power works today. In the 21st century, fascist takeovers have been replaced by rulers who come to power through elections and then, over time, extinguish freedom.

Jason Brownlee, professor of government, the University of Texas at Austin
Of course Trump’s detractors are free to use whatever terms and epithets they like.

I would not say the traditional idea of fascism fits Donald Trump in 2020 any more than it did before he took office. When historians and political scientists do a full accounting of his actions and statements as president, I do not think fascism will figure prominently in their analyses. The prototypical fascist leaders — Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, [Austrian Chancellor] Engelbert Dollfuss — not only pursued right-wing policies, they also built-up mass-mobilizing parties and paramilitary organizations with the goal of sweeping aside alternative movements and establishing single-party dictatorship. I would tend to describe Trump’s brand of politics differently, and I would place him in different company.


Trump is a celebrity-turned-right-wing politician. He acts as a consummate demagogue, fabulist, and ultranationalist, and he appears to have a strong inclination for nepotism and kleptocracy. His efforts to use the presidency to finance his lifestyle and enrich his family resemble the schemes of former Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos. In addition to profiting from his time in office, Trump, like Marcos, has challenged constraints on executive authority without investing resources into a sustainable political organization.

In other respects, Trump’s style of politics recalls portions of the career of former Serbian President Slobodan Milošević. Like Milošević, Trump has promoted a very hierarchical, ethnically based ultranationalist vision that endorses violence against out-groups but without building up a single party the way interwar fascists did.

Jason Stanley, Jacob Urowsky professor of philosophy, Yale University
When I think about fascism, I think about it as applied to different things. There’s a fascist regime. We do not have a fascist regime. Then there’s the question of, “Is Trumpism a fascist social and political movement?” I think you could call legitimately call Trumpism a fascist social and political movement — which is not to say that Trump is a fascist. Trumpism involves a cult of the leader, and Trump embodies that. I certainly think he’s using fascist political tactics. I think there’s no question about that. He is calling for national restoration in the face of humiliations brought on by immigrants, liberals, liberal minorities, and leftists. He’s certainly playing the fascist playbook.

My definition is of fascist politics, not of a fascist regime. I think most of the other [fascism scholars] are just talking about something else. They’re talking about regimes. Toni Morrison in 1995 said the United States has long favored fascist solutions to national problems. Toni Morrison is talking about “fascist solutions.” She’s not talking about fascist regimes. She’s saying the United States has long favored fascist solutions in a democratic state, which I completely agree with: targeting minorities, mass incarceration, colonialism, seizing indigenous land. All these things are things that impacted Hitler. My work is based in the United States — it’s based in the movements that affected European fascism: the KKK, Jim Crow, the anti-miscegenation law, slavery, Indigenous genocide, the 1924 Immigration Act and similar US immigration laws that Hitler lauds in Mein Kampf.

If you’re only worried about fascist regimes, you’re never going to catch fascist social and political movements. The goal is to catch fascist social and political movements, and fascist ideology, before it becomes a regime.
 
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Is BrianCanada really BrianSiberia?






 
Posts: 1091 | Registered: 28 September 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Is Trump a Fascist?


No.

Do you have any idea what fascism is......other than a misused dog whistle...????


.
 
Posts: 37708 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Jtex, the article explains what a fascist is and also explains that Trump is NOT a fascist. You should read it. I think that you would like it.
 
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Why do you ask that question if you know that he is not Brian?


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...
 
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quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
quote:
Is Trump a Fascist?


No.

Do you have any idea what fascism is......other than a misused dog whistle...????


.


Do you have an idea what a decent human being is?

Trump is most certainly IS NOT A DECENT HUMAN being.

A COWARD.

A LIAR.

A CRIMINAL.

A TAX EVADER.

MAGA = MAKE ARSEHOLE GREAT AGAIN! rotflmo


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
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Trump is beholden to the American voter for his office and the United States bi partisan legislature for his budget.
Trump is about to seat another jurist that's guaranteed to continue the independence of the third leg of our government.

"Is Trump a fascist?"
Who cares? tu2
 
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quote:
from the article:

Trump has had time to implement quite anti-immigrant and anti-Black policies,


Brian or anyone,
Can you list for me a single anti-black policy put forth by Trump?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
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quote:
From the article:

The fascist leaders of the past, the University of Texas’s Jason Brownlee notes, “not only pursued right-wing policies,


Brian or anyone,
Could you please list specifically the “right-winged” policies implemented by fascist leaders of past?

I am interested in understanding this “right-wing” tie.

As I see fascism...it is no where near “right-winged” policy as I see it and the ‘style’ of government implemented by past fascist regimes was always socialistic in nature—totally anti-right-wing.

Thus please help me understand this “right-wing” tie and list the “right-wing” traits/policies implemented by historical fascists.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 27258 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Kinda like socialism?

quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
quote:
Is Trump a Fascist?


No.

Do you have any idea what fascism is......other than a misused dog whistle...????


.


No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.

-Mark Twain
 
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Ledvm, The answer to your question is in the article that I posted.
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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I am glad that the experts admit that he’s not.

Wonder if that will make a dent in the leftists here that constantly claim that.

I remember a lively debate with one of my political science profs in undergrad. He was an honest liberal, and in essence we were arguing if fascism is left or right wing. The whole socialist part of Nazism and all.

I had three classmates come up to me and basically tell me that I was screwed as I basically was arguing with the prof. My response was he had told me that he wasn’t going to do my thinking for me, and that as long as we were respectful, he welcomed the discussion.

The next day, he stood up in class and told us that he had heard those comments and also had people come up to him and tell him that I needed to fail the class. He stated that he was disgusted by those comments and that academic freedom was about having sincere differences of opinion. He then announced that there was only one A in the class- mine. He spent a good portion of the day talking about freedom and the difference between intolerance and debate.

He also was the city Democratic Party chairman.

So I know there are good, honest, reasonable liberal Democrats out there.

He was a good man.

Did we disagree a lot? Yes.

Both parties have become way more intolerant.

My experience is that the left will say anything to win, but they don’t necessarily believe it.

The right is much less prone to the public behaviors (with Trump being an exception); but they tend to believe what they say more.
 
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crbutler, I always said that he was a fascist but I agree with the article and realize that I had it wrong. I stand corrected. I will use the term "autocrat" at least until Nov 3rd. Brian
 
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Posts: 5682 | Location: Ban pre shredded cheese - make America grate again... | Registered: 29 October 2005Reply With Quote
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nute, Good one.

This article might be helpful too


History of fascism

Mussolini coined the term "fascism" in 1919. He had been a communist but changed his opinions in the wake of World War I, Montague said. The word "fascism" comes from the Italian "fascio," meaning a bundle or group, and is considered a term for a militant brotherhood. According to the history department at King's College, the word "fasces" means an ax tightly bound with sticks, which became a symbol of the fascist movement.

Mussolini's 1919 fascism mixed extreme nationalist expansion with social programs like women's suffrage and workers' power. Fascist leaders quickly moderated their message, allied with conservatives and the existing governments and gained power. Fascist movements appeared in other European countries that were struggling after World War I or nervous about socialism. Montague identified the Australian New Guards, the British Union of Fascists and, of course, the German National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazi Party) as prominent European fascist parties.

According to the American Historical Association, in Italy in 1922, strong-armed squads known as the Blackshirt Militia, who were financed by industrialists, fought socialist farmer organizations, conducted raids on socialist newspapers and occupied socialist-led towns. They threatened to march on Rome in 1922. The government tried to placate Mussolini by naming him prime minister, but in 1925, he established himself as dictator. What followed was violent suppression of dissent; the deification of Mussolini; violent expansion into Ethiopia, Albania and other countries; and in 1939, alliance with Nazi Germany and participation in World War II.

Hitler learned many lessons from Mussolini, including the importance of propaganda and violence. In the 1920s, he led his Nazi Party to prominence through dramatic speeches, grand entrances and passionate rhetoric against Jews, Marxists, liberals and internationalists, Paxton wrote. In January 1933, Weimar Republic President Paul von Hindenburg named Hitler chancellor, hoping Hitler would stop the growing Communist Party. By the summer, Hitler's rule had become a personal dictatorship.

In violation of the Versailles Treaty, Hitler rearmed Germany and began invading neighboring lands. The invasion of Poland on Sept. 1, 1939, kicked off World War II and the Holocaust.

European fascist ideas inspired regimes throughout Latin America, including in Bolivia and Argentina. "These countries also had a very difficult time during the Depression, and ordinary middle-class parties operating parliamentary systems were notably unsuccessful," Paxton said.

"Argentina had been a wealthy country in 1900, exporting grain and meat, but the bottom fell out of those markets and Argentina became a poor country. It was like losing a war. They turned to a military leader who had populist appeal."

Spain and Portugal were dictatorships until 1975, but those governments were a mix of conservative and fascist parties.

Fascism today

After World War II, fascism largely fell out of fashion in Europe and North America. It became a go-to political insult, resulting in overuse and reduced meaning, said Paxton. Nevertheless, there have been growing fascist or proto-fascist movements in Europe and North America for the last few decades, Paxton said. "As Communism declined after 1989, proto-fascism became the main vehicle for protest voting in Europe," Paxton wrote.

The rise of populism across Europe and the United States in the 2000s has caused many to wonder if fascism is taking hold again. However, Paxton said he does not think fascism is on the rise in the United States.

"What I think we have in this country is much more traditional conservatism," he said. "The basic social political program is individualism, not for everyone, but [for] entrepreneurs. It supports the right of businesspeople to seek maximum profit without rules of regulations.

"We've got an oligarchy [Defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "a small group of people having control of a country or organization"] that has learned some clever maneuvers to win popular support with rhetorical devices that resemble fascism," Paxton continued. "For instance, the United States is in significantly better shape than Germany or Italy were after World War I. However, some politicians have convinced many Americans that the situation is similarly dire."



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Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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I always believed that fascism, flat out, equalled Nazis. Apparently that is not completely true. Opinions vary on the subject.

This if from BBC. ( Englishmen have strong feelings about Nazis just like the South African Boers have about the English. Oops, lets not go there.)

"THE ANSWER
There isn't an answer
Many say 'fascists' are authoritarian and nationalist
But some say racism is part of the definition
Others link the term to its Italian genesis
While still more use an amalgam of the Blackshirts and the Nazis."


One thing that I notice for sure is that Nazis were not Socialist.
Hitler used the name of "German National Socialist German Workers Party" (Nazi Party) as part of his sales pitch when he was getting things rolling in the 30's. Socialism was a good thing in parts of Europe after the first world war, so he used the name. When he built up enough momentum, he showed that he was lying about the socialist part. Autocrats and dictators have to tell a lot of lies to get the ball rolling.(Sounds familiar.)
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Canada:
Ledvm, The answer to your question is in the article that I posted.


I read the article. I saw no policies attributed to fascism shared by the right-wing of our political system anyway. Hence, the reason I asked the question.


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A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 27258 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Fascism always emerges from the rightist ideology.

Trump is the facilitator. His base are fascist fodder.

Fascism can't happen without a Trump-like demagogue, and a base that already believes his lies, and thus will do and believe anything.

Trumpism is the one thing that has to happen to transform the US to fascism.

And it happened.

In about ten days we will know the future of the USA.


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Reality: Resistance is Futile.

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Posts: 11083 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
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quote:
Fascism always emerges from the rightist ideology.


So Mussolini was a rightist?

Please post his "rightist" actions, edicts ,etc.


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Posts: 3313 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Research it yourself. I'm tired of arguing with you fascist fodder rightists.

Nothing I can say will sway you. I just hope you crawl back under your rock after this election, but I know I'm dreaming. You will always be lurking, desperately looking for the next demagogue to say what you want to hear - Make America Great Again.


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Posts: 11083 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
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I have read until I am blue in face. I see no fascist policies consistent with any “right-wing” beliefs.

ME,
If these “right-wing” policies were there...you would list them. They aren’t....so you don’t.


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A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 27258 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Research it yourself. I'm tired of arguing with you fascist fodder rightists.

Nothing I can say will sway you. I just hope you crawl back under your rock after this election, but I know I'm dreaming. You will always be lurking, desperately looking for the next demagogue to say what you want to hear - Make America Great Again.


animal

The last dodge of a defeated idiot!

Poor old woman, you know a whole lot of stuff, its just all wrong!!!!


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Posts: 37708 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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ME, read Brian’s article.

Trump isn’t facist.

Facist and right wing are not the same, at least on an educated level.

With the modern interpretation of words meaning what the speaker wants them to, then maybe you can claim you are right.

Fascism is a form of militant autocratic ultra nationalism, which is really no different than communism in its effects on the governed, at least historically.
 
Posts: 5951 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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ME won't read it, Lane.
He's too busy throwing around big words like "presuppositionistic" and hunting for links to bolster his overinflated self-righteousness.


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Posts: 6213 | Location: Retired and on the road, baby! | Registered: 15 October 2013Reply With Quote
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It's interesting to see the different "takes" on the topic. I am more aligned with M.E. I think that the continuum goes from conservative to Right Wing to Autocratic to Fascism. I'm still working on the the communist angle. I think that Fascism is a the far side of autocrat. I fear autocrats.
I don't fear the far Left because they are always tripping over their own dinks before they get much done. ( Chuckle)
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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This is interesting. I like it because it amplifies some of my ideas. That's a good thing on the PF, right?( another chuckle)

https://www.diffen.com/differe...Communism_vs_Fascism
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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Autocrats are a type of government, or leader, not a specific place on the political spectrum.

A left wing autocrat (like an uncontrolled bureaucracy) is just as objectionable as a right wing.
 
Posts: 5951 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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I go by the std definitions, when possible.

"Autocrat refers to a ruler with absolute power."

"Autocracy is a system of government in which supreme political power to direct all the activities of the state is concentrated in the hands of one person, whose decisions are subject to neither external legal restraints nor regularized mechanisms of popular control."

So "Autocrat" refers to a person. "Autocracy" refers to a form or system of government.

"Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy."

So, "fascism" is an ideology. It is not a collection of "policies" as Lane would like us to believe.

That's the way I understand it.

So, the comment: "A left wing autocrat (like an uncontrolled bureaucracy) is just as objectionable as a right wing." makes no sense to me, unless I decipher it.

"Uncontrolled bureaucracy" hummm - is that like Steve Bannon's "administrative State" or "Deep State"? Seems to me that it's some sort of fear fantasy dreamt up by the Right, which helps justify reciprocating and reactionary moving towards fascism - "They" made me do it sorta thing".


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Posts: 11083 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
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crbutler, I stand corrected on the first point ( But, maybe I could say "autocratic government" to dodge the point.) and I agree on the second point, although I assume that , libs being libs, they would not be very effective. ( No chuckle this time.)
Brian
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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M.E. Yes! Great Minds think alike.
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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https://www.vox.com/2018/9/19/...-trump-jason-stanley

How fascism works
A Yale philosopher on fascism, truth, and Donald Trump.

Jason Stanley
I think of fascism as a method of politics. It’s a rhetoric, a way of running for power. Of course, that’s connected to fascist ideology, because fascist ideology centers on power. But I really see fascism as a technique to gain power.

People are always asking, “Is such-and-such politician really a fascist?” Which is really just another way of asking if this person has a particular set of beliefs or an ideology, but again, I don’t really think of a fascist as someone who holds a set of beliefs. They’re using a certain technique to acquire and retain power.

Sean Illing
So fascism isn’t a discrete category — it’s a spectrum? Or a sliding scale?

Jason Stanley
Right. And my book identifies the various techniques that fascists tend to adopt, and shows how someone can be more fascist or less fascist in their politics. The key thing is that fascist politics is about identifying enemies, appealing to the in-group (usually the majority group), and smashing truth and replacing it with power.

Sean Illing
Why is the destruction of truth, as a shared ideal, so critical to the fascist project?

Jason Stanley
It’s important because truth is the heart of liberal democracy. The two ideals of liberal democracy are liberty and equality. If your belief system is shot through with lies, you’re not free. Nobody thinks of the citizens of North Korea as free, because their actions are controlled by lies.

Truth is required to act freely. Freedom requires knowledge, and in order to act freely in the world, you need to know what the world is and know what you’re doing. You only know what you’re doing if you have access to the truth. So freedom requires truth, and so to smash freedom you must smash truth.

Sean Illing
There’s a great line from the philosopher Hannah Arendt, I think in her book about totalitarianism, where she says that fascists are never content to merely lie; they must transform their lie into a new reality, and they must persuade people to believe in the unreality they’ve created. And if you get people to do that, you can convince them to do anything.

Jason Stanley
I think that’s right. Part of what fascist politics does is get people to disassociate from reality. You get them to sign on to this fantasy version of reality, usually a nationalist narrative about the decline of the country and the need for a strong leader to return it to greatness, and from then on their anchor isn’t the world around them — it’s the leader.


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Reality: Resistance is Futile.

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Posts: 11083 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
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See what I mean boys? Real men read VOX.COM.
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
There’s a great line from the philosopher Hannah Arendt, I think in her book about totalitarianism, where she says that fascists are never content to merely lie; they must transform their lie into a new reality, and they must persuade people to believe in the unreality they’ve created. And if you get people to do that, you can convince them to do anything.


Sounds a whole lot like AGW crowd to me......


.
 
Posts: 37708 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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JTEX, Yes! I agree. But, sorry, I don't know what AGW means. Please define AGW, Thanks, Brian
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
So, "fascism" is an ideology. It is not a collection of "policies" as Lane would like us to believe.


A specific ideology (the study of ideals) must have a list of ideals then that resolve it to fit the specific title.

Please list those ‘right-wing’ “ideals” that can lead to a resolve of fascism.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 27258 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Canada:
JTEX, Yes! I agree. But, sorry, I don't know what AGW means. Please define AGW, Thanks, Brian


Anthropogenic Global Warming......

Man made global warming.


.
 
Posts: 37708 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Got it , Thanks, Brian
 
Posts: 2318 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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Fascist? Not sure. Idiot? Absolutely.


Mike
 
Posts: 17824 | Registered: 03 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Fascist? Not sure. Idiot? Absolutely.


Hey Mike...how do you like how the Supreme Court today as compared to late February 2016?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
Hunter/Conservationist

DSC Life Member
NRA Life Member
APHA Honorary Member

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans. – Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
 
Posts: 27258 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Fascist? Not sure. Idiot? Absolutely.


Hey Mike...how do you like how the Supreme Court today as compared to late February 2016?


shocker
 
Posts: 37708 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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