Fraud Alert

There are worries about what's up in that Minnesota Senate race where Republican incumbent Norm Coleman was ahead of Democrat Al Franken by 725 votes the morning after the election.

But Franken has narrowed the gap to about 200 even though a recount is not yet underway. That is because election officials are correcting supposed typos in how the numbers were reported. Those corrections have added 435 votes to Franken while taking away 69 from Coleman, and virtually all of Franken's new votes came from just three of the more than 4,100 precincts.

The campaigns are also negotiating ballot security standards after an unsuccessful challenge by Coleman to halt the counting of 32 absentee ballots that were supposedly left for days in the trunk of an election official's car.

Republican Governor Tim Pawlenty says, "These changes seem to disproportionally — overwhelmingly favor Al Franken."

Why is it always democrats involved when dirty politics are discovered?......

quote:

The campaigns are also negotiating ballot security standards after an unsuccessful challenge by Coleman to halt the counting of 32 absentee ballots that were supposedly left for days in the trunk of an election official's car.

Why isn't this official being charged with direlection of duty.....this is a horrible disgrace

It's like a previous recount in Minnesota when it was discovered an entire precinct's ballots were hauled to the dump and thrown away and were never counted.....why didn't someone pay dearly for this disgrace.....but then it's Minnesota.....home of the dumbest Democrats in the nation.....after Massachusetts of course.

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Why isn't this official being charged with direlection of duty.....this is a horrible disgrace

It's not. They were absentee ballots. Absentee ballots that were supposed to be collected at one location and delivered to a polling center to be counted. The polling center had already shutdown for the evening when the polling official tried to deliver them, so the sealed absentee ballots stayed in the car until they were later delivered. There is no indication that the seals were tampered with, and no indication of fraud -- just routine election procedures that didn't quite account for all possibilities. In response to this, Coleman tried to suppress 32 legitimate votes.

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Originally posted by InfoSponge:

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Why isn't this official being charged with direlection of duty.....this is a horrible disgrace

It's not. They were absentee ballots. Absentee ballots that were supposed to be collected at one location and delivered to a polling center to be counted. The polling center had already shutdown for the evening when the polling official tried to deliver them, so the sealed absentee ballots stayed in the car until they were later delivered. There is no indication that the seals were tampered with, and no indication of fraud -- just routine election procedures that didn't quite account for all possibilities. In response to this, Coleman tried to suppress 32 legitimate votes.

Then why did they stay in the trunk of his car for days? They should had been delivered the very next morning. This official obviously dropped the ball big time.

Minnesota is no doubt going to be taking lessons from Washington State. In 2002 Rossi won two out of three counts of the votes. Every time King county kept coming up with more votes. Eventually the Democrat Gregoire won.

So if Coleman wins we can now assume he won because of fraud?

Don

really, don -

perhaps they can keep "finding" ballots until franken wins.

fraud, indeed.

It seems that Democrats always keep a couple of boxes of votes stored away for emergency's.

I have to admit to being interested to see if Franken can actually pull this off. That would prove that Minnesota is the dumbest State in the Country.

Or the one with best sense of Irony.

What says Joke more than electing Obama as President and Franken as a US Senator.

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:
It seems that Democrats always keep a couple of boxes of votes stored away for emergency's.

I have to admit to being interested to see if Franken can actually pull this off. That would prove that Minnesota is the dumbest State in the Country.

Or the one with best sense of Irony.

What says Joke more than electing Obama as President and Franken as a US Senator.

That damn governor and his administration.

Oh wait, it's Pawlenty!!!



Don

So all of the 32 absentee ballots in the trunk were for franken? I highly doubt that!

Where did you get that notion? The report is that Franken gained a net 11 from the 32 absentee ballots.

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Originally posted by DRG:

That damn governor and his administration.

Oh wait, it's Pawlenty!!!



Don

Wrong Don. It's that damn Secretary of State who runs elections in Minnesota, Mark Ritchie. Demo!!!

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Originally posted by DRG:
So if Coleman wins we can now assume he won because of fraud?

Don

ALL elections - especially those conducted on machines by Dibold - are fixed

Remember Chimpy winning Florida a few years back?

They were going to fix it this year too, but, the public outcry againt him was far too much.

End result is the same though, another dictator would be installed in the WH - with a different point of view, and just as unsavory

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But Franken has narrowed the gap to about 200 even though a recount is not yet underway.

People in Minnesota voted for a liberal? Sounds suspicious to me?

Palin is on CNN right now. Whan asked if she would cooperate with Obama she started ranting about the terrorist associations silliness.

Boy, is this gal stupid.

As I have said..... all these lost votes, no matter where it is... they seem to find a zillion votes that they nmissed for the loosing democratic Candidate...

Never fails, yet we are to believe that is not election fraud????

well Dumocrats might believe it... but no one with any common sense would....

Can you see living in Minnesota and writing your Senator???

Dear Senator Franken:

how in the hell can anyone in his right mind take that seriously???????

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:
So if Coleman wins we can now assume he won because of fraud?

Don

ALL elections - especially those conducted on machines by Dibold - are fixed

Remember Chimpy winning Florida a few years back?

They were going to fix it this year too, but, the public outcry againt him was far too much.

End result is the same though, another dictator would be installed in the WH - with a different point of view, and just as unsavory

You're quite familiar with dictators, being from the Middle East and all...

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:
So if Coleman wins we can now assume he won because of fraud?

Don

ALL elections - especially those conducted on machines by Dibold - are fixed

Remember Chimpy winning Florida a few years back?

They were going to fix it this year too, but, the public outcry againt him was far too much.

End result is the same though, another dictator would be installed in the WH - with a different point of view, and just as unsavory

You're quite familiar with dictators, being from the Middle East and all...

You're dead right mate.

And there is NO DIFFERENCE between our dictators and yours!

You just think you have a choice.

Get over it.

you really, really DO NOT have a choice!

So Taz, I see you got an explanation on this a couple days ago--but, you're calling fraud again. Is this just to whip up the mob, a little red meat? I'm dissapointed. Here's Infosponge's reply again:

________________________________________________

Posted 14 November 2008 03:03
Remember those 32 ballots in Minnesota about which Norm Coleman's lawyer Fritz Knaak was telling a scary story concerning them "riding around in [Minneapolis Elections Director Cindy Reichert’s] car for several days, which raised all kinds of integrity questions”? Mostly a big GOP lie.


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Reichert is all too happy to provide an explanation. She says the “car ballot” story is “just not true,” painting a picture of normal balloting procedures twisted into something grotesquely misleading.

The “car ballot” story emerged Saturday from the mouth of Coleman lawyer Fritz Knaak, who, according to AP, told reporters, “We were actually told ballots had been riding around in her car for several days, which raised all kinds of integrity questions.”

Knaak never provided a source and did not return two MinnPost calls for comment. However, he was already backing off his story at the same press event. As that day’s Pioneer Press noted, “Knaak said he feels assured that what was going on with the 32 ballots was neither wrong nor unfair.”

Still, the lie that won’t die is that Reichert toted around ballots like an empty McDonald’s bag thrown into the back seat.

Before getting into the details, she makes three fundamental points:

1. The ballots were never in her car.

2. The ballots were never in anyone’s car for several days.

3. The ballots were never lost or forgotten, and spent Election Night until counting day in secure city facilities.


The sorting hats

OK, so were the ballots ever in a car?

Yes. But stow the outrage until you hear the details.

As most folks know, there were a ton of absentee ballots this year. State law mandates voters return absentee ballots to elections offices, such as the Government Center or City Hall. Officials then must deliver the ballots to individual precincts on Election Day for tallying.

Since the "Star Trek" teleporter has not yet been invented, these ballots are driven to the polling places.

Yes, in cars — like they are every year, throughout Minnesota. (Ramsey County officials confirm they do this, too, for example.)

“What I find ludicrous is that this goes on all around the state,” Reichert says. “If we could process them [at City Hall] we’d love to do that.”

In Minneapolis, the cargo is transported by “precinct support judges,” one for each ward. Seven of the city’s 2008 “PSJs” were declared Democrats, three Republican, two independents and one listed no affiliation.

At about 7 p.m. Election Night, the county sent the city a batch of “uniformed overseas citizens” absentee ballots — from military personnel and Minnesotans living abroad. The ballots have two envelopes — an outer one with basic registration information, and an inner security envelope with the actual vote.

City Hall staff checks the outer envelope to assure registration validity. They then sort the envelopes into 131 Minneapolis precincts for delivery.

Ballots are further sorted by five differing absentee-voting instructions. (For example, some electronically delivered overseas ballots don’t come back in machine-readable form, so precinct judges must transcribe them onto optically scannable sheets.)

Then they have to be handed to the PSJs, who have to travel a 10- or 11-precinct circuit so judges on-site can open the inner security envelope and cast the vote.

For this final batch, it all had to happen in as little as an hour.


Driving the ballots

The drivers went out about 7:30 p.m. Reichert soon heard from some who were worried they might not get to every precinct before closing. Once a precinct judge removes a tallying machine memory card, votes can no longer be counted there.

Reichert says she sent a broadcast message to each precinct’s lead judge to keep sites open, but not everyone received it. Some less-busy sites shut down before the drivers got there.

In accordance with longstanding procedures, the couriers immediately brought the uncounted, unopened ballots — 28 of the now-famous 32 — back to City Hall, where they were stored in a secure room.

(The other four ballots were accidentally unprocessed in the precincts, and were also returned that night to the same place.)

So: The ballots were in cars because state law mandates precinct counting. An election judge always had custody, and they were never “lost.” They were not in vehicles overnight and spent Election Night, and the next several nights, tucked away safely in City Hall.


The Saturday count

Reichert says the Coleman camp knew of the uncounted ballots on Thursday, when she told a volunteer “guardian of the ballots” about them. On Friday, Reichert called Coleman’s office to tell them they’d be counted Saturday; she doesn’t remember who took the call.

On Saturday, Coleman filed suit, with Knaak uttering his now-infamous quote.

Did Reichert use the word “lost” when talking to Coleman’s forces? “No!” she exclaims.

What about "car"?

She laughs. “I don’t know. We were all really tired on Thursday. I’ve been wracking my brain trying to recall what I said that made them think this. I talked to their attorney Friday night, explained this whole situation.”

So why weren’t the ballots counted until Saturday?

Reichert says she needed to get back each precinct's voter rolls to assure absentee voters didn't cast in-person ballots Election Day. Truckers bring back precinct supplies to the city’s elections warehouse throughout election week. Enough equipment came back Friday to count the first 28 votes Saturday.

For the record, those ballots, plus the four mistakenly uncounted precinct ones, made a final car trip that morning. They were driven from City Hall to the warehouse — accompanied by three election judges from differing parties.

In the end, Franken claimed 18 of the 32 votes and Coleman got seven. The rest were non-votes or for other candidates.

Banana republic style. I can't understand the US failure to create trustworthy elections.

buff - i posted this on the 12th, two days before IS's explanation.

of course, explanations are like excuses, and we know what those are like - i reserve the right to view explanations with skepticism. if bush would ahve offered an explanation such as this, who would accept it?

Hey Taz, I stand corrected. My apologies for assuming otherwise.

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Originally posted by InfoSponge:
Where did you get that notion? The report is that Franken gained a net 11 from the 32 absentee ballots.

It doesn't work. The number has to be either 10 or 12.