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Do Democrats ever question why they don't do any good in rural areas Login/Join 
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quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
quote:
farmers vote for slavery, Corruption, Misogyny and worse?


Shanks

Again you miss the context. It is American mostly.

If you read a bit of history you will know very soon that the US Civil War was started around slavery. Much after the war, the Confederated tried to sanitise it by claiming that it was about state right.

That Civil War was largely driven by the farmers & plantation owners.

That core foundation still continues in the US. The same regions objected to getting rid of the Confederate flag.

In NZ you know our history a lot better, or should. You know that in the past it was mostly rural areas that had anti Maori sentiments. Look at the history of our politics. Maori mostly were on the Left while past National leaders often stoked anti Maori sentiment - like Don Brash during my time. I know that you personally do not fit in that slot. far from it. I know how your community lives ( a bit) and I know that you personally serve that community with many Maori in a commendable way. My comment was broadly at the right wing parties and groups.

Back to the US. Trump and many of his group are racists and misogynists. Very poor representation of minorities or women in his administration. republicans ALWAYS oppose equal pay for women. Poll stats and demographics show us the same. We do not see the same problems to the same extent in NZ. We are far more diverse and egalitarian.

Was the language & tone of my statement inflammatory? yes. Was the core essence of my point valid? Absolutely.

Just look at the neo nazi and white supremacists supporting Trump. THAT is the "worse". Did you know that such sentiments and groups are also getting established in NZ? Small but they are here. Why do decent people vote along side such dregs of society? Would you call a person or a party that panders to such groups as a core base a credible party or credible people?

You will not understand somethings. When the Christchurch shooting happened, I was devastated for many reasons. I was in shock for days. Mainly because the innocence of NZ had been attacked by this right wing evil from overseas. I have a lot of faith in our country and its people. But another thought kicked me in the guts. If I had been walking along the street in Christchurch with my family at that time, we would all be dead!

Again - you are missing the context AND the perspective.

When I tell you that I have studied this stuff, i mean it.

In the 1970s, the main right wing academic schools of thought centered around defending Capitalism, defending colonialism and perpetuating a colonial view of "third world" countries.

In the last 50 years you have more than 2000 fake "universities", think tanks, "research organisations" etc. who have spent trillions in amassing a huge body of so called research and talking points that are Right wing BS. They have been cross referencing each other for 50 years to make it look credible. Now you see all these politicians referring to such fake BS from heritage foundation, Britebart and QAnon as valid facts! An entire generation has been brought up on this!

I find that vile and evil. Unfortunately 74 ,million people voted for that side without understanding the deep core foundations and values involved.


This is not a history lesson Naki, the topic had nothing to do with the civil war or slavery Its about today; And why half the population vote republican. If anyone has missed the context, its yourself! Personally I just think you are being a snake, and using any excuse to deny your obvious bigotry and with that your hypocrisy in labelling others as bigots. To put it bluntly, you fucked up and are squirming to get out of that.Including taking it out on me because I called it. It didnt just come through in the one quote, it showed again in your My religion is ok but others is bad speal. This whole stupid discussion comes back to, you did not like being shown you behave as badly as you claim others do.

Im also not going to let you bypass the second part of my post.

You have acted appallingly! You have spent a good part of this thread criticising me for not condemning comments made at you by others here. All along I have said you cause them yourself, and you have taken me to task for that attitude and denied it. And you have cried repeatedly that the forum members here treat you badly.
Now we have it in writing that you actually enjoy trolling and winding up members of the forum, and find it easy. You by your own admission, cause the feedback you get. Exactly like I said. Can you blame people for treating you a certain way if thats how you behave.

Finally:

Dont you dare bring the Christchurch massacre into this and claim I do not understand! You pathetic wretch!
You come and Look Kathrin in the eye and tell her that. As she stood beside me. And hear how She comforted me as I cried for those people and the nation and my culture that I knew was going to be changed for ever. You scumbag who thinks he can use anything to get himself out of the mud! Think again because if you try use that tragedy like this again I will hammer you harder than you have ever been hammered before. I will accept that you felt things during that time, and due to your life experience they will differ from mine, but to claim I do not understand and use it as a measure of pity here is lower than I thought you could go.

And your condescension... That you know more about the core values and reasons for voting in America than 74 million Americans do. Labelling them as racists and slavers and worse. You. You who tells me I carry a chip! You have a chip so big and the worst thing about it, is you can not even see it.
 
Posts: 1311 | Location: North Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Seeing Naki for what he is......well its pretty easy........


.
 
Posts: 38290 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Shanks

Just chill out. You are in a different world. And totally out of line.

You entered this debate with a chip on your shoulder from the beginning. It has got bigger.

Now you are spewing and ranting all over the place.

It is you who is squirming as you have no facts and fail to face facts when confronted by them. Typical of the Right you can only abuse and call names.

Christchurch incident was an example of the far right. Why should I not reference it to say what I feel about it? You do not set the rules here. You have no clue what it feels like - simple. you can cry all you want and genuinely empathise all you want. But you do not understand what it is like to be faced by Right wing extremism and its ideology. What it does to the community and the people faced with it.

You do not want to learn from history that Right wing bigotry has got worse in the last 50 years. It has got far worse since the collapse of communism in the last 30 years.

Just your spewing and ranting is evidence that you are confronted by your own contradictions.

I am done with you


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10696 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Shanks

I have decided to call you out on your blatant dishonesty and hateful spewing. No I am NOT going to abuse you but here are the facts.

1. I posted historical facts to give you the context about your earlier allegation of my comments about the Right and slavery etc. No you do not want to read it, acknowledge the facts or admit the connection. It has a lot to do with why historically rural folk have voted conservative. That is US history and YOU are the one trying to evade the facts.
2. It was YOU who brought in religion in the first place a few post ago and accused me of prejudice towards the Right based on religion. It was only AFTER your post that I gave my views on my personal faith and referenced another article. My comments were not about another religion but about the misuse of Christian labels by the Right. Again you refuse to do the research or read the arguments to understand the complex issues.
3. It is YOU who brought up the race topic. Not me. I then gave the historical references.

It is obvious to me that
1. You have lost all perspective. May be you had no clue even before you posted?
2. You have no recollection of the logical steps and you are just lashing out
3. You cannot accept that many of the facts I pointed out are stinging you and so you are again lashing out.
4. I maintain my position and you cannot do anything but "let me get away with it". You have no power, no authority and no fact based argument. Just abuse and anger.

I am finished with you.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10696 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Good bye naki. This time I'm going to let you go.
It's all you have left.

Your bluster is not fooling a single person.
You have just made yourself look pathetic.

As was your use of a tragedy that had no place in this conversation. Or the way you used it.

Your myopic view of the world is also clouded by your hate.
Bigotry hasn't got worse in the last 50 years, the world including America and NZ have improved dramatically for fairness and acceptance. Culturally, Gender wise, and economically. No ones perfect and a long way to go yet. But the image you paint is demonstrably incorrect.
As is your characterisation of generally ordinary decent people because they choose a party you despise for reasons you don't seem to understand or willing to accept.

Do democrats ever question why? If they are like you, then obviously no.
 
Posts: 1311 | Location: North Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Shanks

I have decided to call you out on your blatant dishonesty and hateful spewing. No I am NOT going to abuse you but here are the facts.

1. I posted historical facts to give you the context about your earlier allegation of my comments about the Right and slavery etc. No you do not want to read it, acknowledge the facts or admit the connection. It has a lot to do with why historically rural folk have voted conservative. That is US history and YOU are the one trying to evade the facts.
2. It was YOU who brought in religion in the first place a few post ago and accused me of prejudice towards the Right based on religion. It was only AFTER your post that I gave my views on my personal faith and referenced another article. My comments were not about another religion but about the misuse of Christian labels by the Right. Again you refuse to do the research or read the arguments to understand the complex issues.
3. It is YOU who brought up the race topic. Not me. I then gave the historical references.

It is obvious to me that
1. You have lost all perspective. May be you had no clue even before you posted?
2. You have no recollection of the logical steps and you are just lashing out
3. You cannot accept that many of the facts I pointed out are stinging you and so you are again lashing out.
4. I maintain my position and you cannot do anything but "let me get away with it". You have no power, no authority and no fact based argument. Just abuse and anger.

I am finished with you.


Thats the second time you have been finished with me. or maybe the third. Got any more?
 
Posts: 1311 | Location: North Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Right, so that some here might have a better picture. Im going to link to and article by James Robbins who served in the office of the secretary of defence to the US president. And its from a newspaper that is centralist, not right or left.
Too often the right get s the Blame for the NZ shooting. The shooter was in fact quite confused of his ideology and while definitely racist, I dont think that can be tied to the right alone.
In the article you will see the shooter claims to most closely align with the chinese communist party and that his goal was to divide America.

I cant comment much further as here in NZ, we are not allowed to download or read his manifesto so my info stops at what newspaper articles tell us.
What is clear from a reputable source is that Nakis claims are false.
The first few paragraphs re couching are applicable in this discussion as well I would say.
https://www.usatoday.com/story...m-column/3201164002/
 
Posts: 1311 | Location: North Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Shanks

I am finished with you and have no interest in your rants.

But I WILL defend my self against false accusations.

You are again misleading and dishonest - as you have shown yourself to be.

USA today may be a centerist publication according to Wikipaedia. But any claims that shooter was not Right wing have no credibility.

Just that one article you cherry pick does not make my conclusions false. read some history and learn. Oh, I forgot that you do not like history lessons!

Hitler claimed the Nazi party to be Socialist. Go figure.

Most hate crimes in the US and race attacks are from the Right, unless they are from terrorists with a religious / political agenda.

In the US, the Intelligence agencies have clearly concluded that White Supremacists (Right wing radicals) are the biggest threat. I am sure you will now find some other article to claim otherwise.

Xenophobia has always been a dog whistle of the Right. Period.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10696 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Shanks

What world are you in man? You are comparing NZ with the US. We are socially in opposite sides of the spectrum. NZ has move a long way and I have seen it for 28 years and I am so proud of it.

On the other hand American society has become polarised. Hate crimes have increased in the last 30 years. The Republican party has moved further and further to the Right. This is not just me saying it. Most political analysts in the US say so.

The Democratic Party has also moved Right. Clinton & Biden were the ones who engineered the 3 strikes law that has incarcerated petty offenders for life! Harris had a hand in it to.

I've already posted that people like Warren & sanders are no more "Left" than most West European leaders.

Oh, you don't like history lessons. I keep forgetting.

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
Good bye naki. This time I'm going to let you go.
It's all you have left.

Your bluster is not fooling a single person.
You have just made yourself look pathetic.

As was your use of a tragedy that had no place in this conversation. Or the way you used it.

Your myopic view of the world is also clouded by your hate.
Bigotry hasn't got worse in the last 50 years, the world including America and NZ have improved dramatically for fairness and acceptance. Culturally, Gender wise, and economically. No ones perfect and a long way to go yet. But the image you paint is demonstrably incorrect.
As is your characterisation of generally ordinary decent people because they choose a party you despise for reasons you don't seem to understand or willing to accept.

Do democrats ever question why? If they are like you, then obviously no.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10696 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Picture of Nakihunter
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Here is some info on the shift to the Right by the Republican party.



Here is the link to the actual article in the Economist. No it is not some liberal tabloid. This is serious research by credible political scientists

https://www.economist.com/grap...ism-and-illiberalism

Here is another one

https://fivethirtyeight.com/fe...rge-h-w-bush-ran-it/

It has good info including a lot of the stuff I kept repeating - the the republican party has less college degree holding voters, more rural, more whites etc. Plenty of relevant points to answer the OP.

Don't believe me. Just ask Karl Rove & Paul Ryan.

Now let the hate and spewing start again Wink


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 10696 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Shanks

What world are you in man? You are comparing NZ with the US. We are socially in opposite sides of the spectrum. NZ has move a long way and I have seen it for 28 years and I am so proud of it.

On the other hand American society has become polarised. Hate crimes have increased in the last 30 years. The Republican party has moved further and further to the Right. This is not just me saying it. Most political analysts in the US say so.

The Democratic Party has also moved Right. Clinton & Biden were the ones who engineered the 3 strikes law that has incarcerated petty offenders for life! Harris had a hand in it to.

I've already posted that people like Warren & sanders are no more "Left" than most West European leaders.

Oh, you don't like history lessons. I keep forgetting.

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
Good bye naki. This time I'm going to let you go.
It's all you have left.

Your bluster is not fooling a single person.
You have just made yourself look pathetic.

As was your use of a tragedy that had no place in this conversation. Or the way you used it.

Your myopic view of the world is also clouded by your hate.
Bigotry hasn't got worse in the last 50 years, the world including America and NZ have improved dramatically for fairness and acceptance. Culturally, Gender wise, and economically. No ones perfect and a long way to go yet. But the image you paint is demonstrably incorrect.
As is your characterisation of generally ordinary decent people because they choose a party you despise for reasons you don't seem to understand or willing to accept.

Do democrats ever question why? If they are like you, then obviously no.


Naki, Instead of trying to misrepresent me, how about you address your admittance of active trolling and causing conflict in this forum?
Im not going onto any new topics with you until you address your hypocrisy and bigotry.

You can chase me about trying to cover up for your failings all week if you want. Im not falling for it. Your hate is visible and you have no answer but to find ways to misrepresent or deflect.
Your actions in some of your posts are appalling. Hate one all you like, but you are the mug who keeps making statements that you cant defend.
 
Posts: 1311 | Location: North Island NZ | Registered: 21 July 2008Reply With Quote
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