Here is a photo of shot filled bullets. These are 50 caliber for the 50 Browning and made from belted magnum brass. Any belted magnum brass will work, and I think the picture was 300 Win Mag, but I mostly find 7mm brass discarded at the range. Only a single reloading press die is needed to form them, but the belt does need to be turned off. A dipper full of bird shot and a little hot melt glue to seal the end and they are ready to go. A 5 gallon jug of water turns into mist when hit with one of these. I expect a coyote would do the same.

Thanks Saeed for this new forum.

Copper - Thats a nice creative bullet and for sure would be a terrible thing to get hit with! I would guess that any sort of magnum brass would work as well as the 7mm.

Have you run any tests at distance to see what sort of accuracy these projectiles will hold at say 100 yds etc.?

Several years ago I experemented with Round Ball shot. I placed shot in the mold then added the molten lead. As was said,the impact on a milk jug WAS impressive. derf

Yes, any kind of magnum brass will work. I just find more 7mm stuff on the ground at the range than 458 mag. They are not the most accurate bullet that can be made since necking down a case, as opposed to expanding with lead from the inside to fill the shape of a die, leads to a less concentric projectile than a target bullet. We have filled these with lead from a bottom pour lead pot and used a wipe of rosin with a Q tip to try to make a 'bonded core', but the thickness of the case is too thin to give a mushroom from a 50 BMG at close range. We make the shot filled ones for blasting water jugs so have not accuracy tested any. Just fun stuff.

Copper, I am thinking out loud here, and this would require several steps to make...but what if you cut off a mag case at the desired length. (After turning the rim off it of course) Then fill the case about 2/3 - 3/4 with molten lead. Then take a round drift and hammer that lead core down somewhat until it has REALLY filled and slightly swelled the case. Then you would need to run the thing thru some sort of sizing die to get the desired bullet diameter and then run it partially up into something to shape the point?

This might require the manufacture of a die or two to achieve the latter steps, but I think with some fiddling you COULD create a fairly workable bullet.

I've done similar nutty things with .224 bullets and created some absolute bombs that even shot well! Lord help the varmits they hit!

Pecos: Usually the belt is not completely removed at .510 dia. so the bullet is actually a bore rider. It depends on the size of the rifle's chamber the brass was fired in, as I do not resize the brass before forming the bullet. The forming only forms the nose end and does not change the shank. However, in essence you are correct in that once the belt is gone the cut off case could be used in a core seat then point form die to make nice lead core bullets. I don't have those dies for .510 bullets so have been experimenting with the cast in place method.

I have considered sizing the cases down to .505, once the belt is removed, and getting a core seat and point form die for 505 Gibbs but haven't yet done so.

Probably shouldn't mention this part but a buddy filled three of the formed bullets with regular old cement. I forgot exactly how light they were but some where around 250 grains. We were trying to see how fast we could get one to go. Never did get a chronograph reading as the muzzle blast was extra intense with 300 grains plus of powder and one gets diminishing returns when the powder weighs more that the bullet. (I should note we used Quick Load to simulate this before trying it.) The blast from the muzzle break was up a quantum leap too.

Copper - You need to start going to monthly meetings with me down at "Crazy Reloaders Annonymous." I've tried stuff almost that nutty, but I would have guessed the cement thing was going to blow a lot of gray dust out the bore.

The project you are pursuing here is never going to be an economically sound one...but such craziness is fascinating.

When I look at the way your finished "bullets" are formed, they bring to mind a .22 Jet case, although I know they are larger by far.

I was just wondering if maybe you could use the case as something like a brass "sabot." Perhaps split the brass down the sides 4 or five times lengthwise and then fill the thing with lots of evil stuff, Buckshot? Or maybe get some split shot and wire and crimp it together to build some "shot and chain" type ammo. Possibly you could get some .45 cal half jacket cups, pour them full of lead and seat half a dozen in the case?

I don't know that I would be willing to fire ANY of this stuff with a muzzle break on the gun, however.

The smart thing to do would be to walk away from this adventure while you and the gun are ahead of the game. But you have taken me back to some of my crazier days.

I wonder what someone like Corbin would charge to build you a proper set of bullet swaging dies so you could actually build your one .50 cal bullets. I assume Hornady or someone would sell you the jacket material?

Anyway, thanks for a thought provoking topic.

It's at the fringes where knowledge is gained.
Just so one doesn't fall off the cutting edge!

Speaking of crazy, I have in my cartridge collection a .50 BMG with a projectile made by moulding 4 pistol bullets in an epoxy matrix that in form is similar to the standard BMG projectile. Bullets appear to be .45 ACP TCWC and there are three small dimples on the outer radius of each where the mould used pins to hold them in place. And I thought the .50 was already "enough gun" for anti-personnel use.

Ed Harris told me once what it was called but paper work not within reach. A Viet Nam era toy sez he.

Digital, I think we fiddled with some duplex projectice ammo for the 7.62 in Viet Nam. And if memory is right, you can load 3 half jackets full of lead into 38 or 357, looking like a wad cutter round but creating a "triplex."

Not sure about the half jackets Pecos but I have loaded multiple RB's in .44 Mag...paper patched(because I was bored). They work very well in the 900-1200 fps(2" groups 3" apart) range but only the spirits can follow them above those velocities. A single ball recorded just shy of 2400 fps but did not hit the 2'X3' target board at 25 yds., or the Chrony . Do you think that's some kind of record? I have heard/read of the triplex load of which you speak but recall it as being loaded with something that looked more like hockey pucks than a bullet.

Lee had made a .357 Mag/38 Special mold for a 82 gr wadcutter and a 44 Spl/44 Mag mold for a 116 gr wadcutter. We used to load them as duplex and triplex loads. Never tried for velocity - just nice patterns.

Yeah, you guys have got the idea about the duplex, triplex stuff.

Another crazy load I used to make was load a .45ACP with powder...seat a .45 cal gas check down to the powder and then fill the case with #8 shot and seat another gas check on top of that to hold the shot in the case.

Most guns you naturally had to load it like single shot as it wouldn't feed thru clip.

Did it work? Not really worth a damn. The shot took the spin of the rifling and came out the barrel going EVERYWHERE . I even got an old ACP barrel and polished the rifling out of it. Not much improvement.

The most effective thing is stacking the little light wad cutters on top of each other like Copper is talking about. They ALL shoot pretty good and in a dark alley against multiple attackers it would be about like you being armed with a full auto 380. Pop off two or three shots and you've got a whole swarm of bullets out looking for trouble...and any one of them will hurt you good.

Straight sided pistol cartridges are just made for such silliness. Put any sort of material in the case to act as a sleeve or sabot and keep the projectiles from taking the rifling and I guess you could shoot a fist full of watermelon seeds at someone if you wanted to.

The medical examiner might have hard time explaining how someone died from a watermelon seed in the brain...but that's his problem

And don't forget the power of cheese!

What kind of fouling do you get from using brass rather than copper?

And, I'm a little surprised the primer in the base holds up to the pressure - amazing!

Or are you using reduced loads?

Hey, CC - how's the weather up there?

[ 10-27-2003, 06:55: Message edited by: sonofagun ]

SOG - I wonder if he even bothers to deprime the brass? Not much reason to even take the primer out when you think about it.

No need to deprime the brass and they are full power loads. Since these are a "bore rider", because only the area where the belt was and the base are .510, I would say the fouling is less that the Barnes solid brass target bullets. I can't say for sure since I don't just shoot a set of these at a time to give a basis for comparison. When I shoot these in the 50 BMG it is fun shooting and I usually have a mix of ball and other surplus to shoot too. Lots of scrubbing the bore afterwards nonetheless.
(SOG: Leaves are mostly gone up here and the snow has come and gone a few times too. It will be here to stay pretty soon. Hope by Nov 15th!)

Leave the primer out and you'd have a shotgun!

LOL

HEY THANKS COOPER FOR THE INFO TO COME TO YOUR PAGE. just wondering what die set you are useing to neck then down? and what if you trimmed the neck off first and pressed a lead wire core into the case with a mandrel" any one with a metal lathe could make one " then sized the brass down you would have a very more consistant bullet!

LTPD414: The die I am using was made by Near Manufacturing. I do not know if he still makes them or not. He had an article in the "Very High Power", published by the 50 Caliber Shooters Assoc, and I gave him a call. It has been a few years now. I am sure other die makers could make a die also, Richard Corbin for instance at RCE. A more consistent bullet could be made by seating a lead core, and a copper tubing jacket would probably be better also, but the point was to make a super disintegrating bullet. At the time I found this method I thought it was intriguing and still like the novelty and simplicity of equipment involved. I see someone is making something similar commercially, .50 BMG Frangible.

With a lathe,I turn off the aluminum tip/core of the Hornady A-Max and then melt out the lead and aluminun remains..........leaving a nice jacket with a 1/4 inch mouth. Molly-Coat,filled with #9 shot and a spot of hot melt,and it will "turn to mist" water jugs at 100 yards. Two or three out of ten will fly......prolly my manufactureing error. What fun!