Here in Williamson County I started noticing little signs placed at intersections, etc. saying "Save Our Air + Aquifer", etc. but had no idea what they were about. Last night I got a call from a friend + fellow rancher who lives just a few miles from me + told me the details. There is an old rock quarry just a few miles down the road that wants to reopen + start a gravel chrushing process, since Williamson County is having extremely rapid growth the gravel would be needed for road base, etc. I have no problem with that however it appears that in their crushing process that they will need to tap our aquafir + the current figures are pumping out 60K gallons a day, which in 90 days will completely delete + destroy our aquafir + NOONE living here will have any drinking water or for any other use. A commiee in town hired an attorney who tried to file an injunction but was told that he was 2 weeks too late as there had been a notice in some little Mexican rag newspaper that no one read. The lawyer tried to file an injunction but was refused by the Williamson County judge who BTW is on the side of the quarry owner (if he has not been bought I will kiss your ass!) Oh, the Judges name is Gravel FWIW as he is always more concerned on feathering his nest than taking care of the citizens (WillCo needs the gravel for our growth) Fxxk the people + their drinking water. This will destroy entire rural communities + individuals like me + my neighbors

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
Here in Williamson County I started noticing little signs placed at intersections, etc. saying "Save Our Air + Aquifer", etc. but had no idea what they were about. Last night I got a call from a friend + fellow rancher who lives just a few miles from me + told me the details. There is an old rock quarry just a few miles down the road that wants to reopen + start a gravel chrushing process, since Williamson County is having extremely rapid growth the gravel would be needed for road base, etc. I have no problem with that however it appears that in their crushing process that they will need to tap our aquafir + the current figures are pumping out 60K gallons a day, which in 90 days will completely delete + destroy our aquafir + NOONE living here will have any drinking water or for any other use. A commiee in town hired an attorney who tried to file an injunction but was told that he was 2 weeks too late as there had been a notice in some little Mexican rag newspaper that no one read. The lawyer tried to file an injunction but was refused by the Williamson County judge who BTW is on the side of the quarry owner (if he has not been bought I will kiss your ass!) Oh, the Judges name is Gravel FWIW as he is always more concerned on feathering his nest than taking care of the citizens (WillCo needs the gravel for our growth) Fxxk the people + their drinking water. This will destroy entire rural communities + individuals like me + my neighbors

Sounds like old cowboy movies.

Where money buys anything.

Sure does Saeed, with the exception that this is not a B grade movie; I + my neighbors + surrounding community are living it. We will see what the courts will do but since we are online you may be sure that I would never do anything reactionary to someone who had designs on stealing my drinking water.

In the West water flows uphill to money! Aquifers are a very special resource. Some recharge and some don't, and when they are gone they are gone forever. Most politicians see growth as good and will not do anything that will limit it. Look at what is happening with the Colorado river right now. The populations in California, Arizona, and Nevada have grown to depend on the water and power coming from that river and as it drys up they don't have a plan B to make up for the loss. In a lot of places water is a very finite resource and human population growth seems to be infinite.
C.G.B.

i heard Plan B was to divert the mississipee river to them?

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
i heard Plan B was to divert the mississipee river to them?

Tradition is to pipe it from further north, but they're in a drought too.

I have worked on a lot of water issues in the West related to mining. The best information I can give you is to HURRY and get all the data you can on the groundwater in the area. You will probably have to hire a hydrologist. Get as much information as possible on the wells in the area so you can document a loss of water in the future. If you do not have data, when it gets to court it is just your word against the gravel company. A hydrologist will be able to construct a current model of the hydrologic system so you can measure later impacts. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this in more detail.

No John, I thought the same thing that with all the water from the Mississipi dumping into the gulf could be rerouted via aquadusts, rivers, etc. it's not like we don't have the technology but someone here on AR told me a few year ago why it couldn't be done LEGALLY. Don't ask me to explain as I didn't understand then + still don't as to why, Our government in session.

Word is that Travis County (VERY liberal) adjoins Williamson (actually the county line line runs through my property) is very concerned on this issue as they are extremely close to this aquifer + so the leftist environmentalists are getting involved + for this I give lauds for their clout + hopefully using it now for something important , like drinking water for everyone + not just as saviors of a speckled newt.

Why don't they use settling ponds and re-use most of the wash water? Using drinking quality water to wash stones is stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
Here in Williamson County I started noticing little signs placed at intersections, etc. saying "Save Our Air + Aquifer", etc. but had no idea what they were about. Last night I got a call from a friend + fellow rancher who lives just a few miles from me + told me the details. There is an old rock quarry just a few miles down the road that wants to reopen + start a gravel chrushing process, since Williamson County is having extremely rapid growth the gravel would be needed for road base, etc. I have no problem with that however it appears that in their crushing process that they will need to tap our aquafir + the current figures are pumping out 60K gallons a day, which in 90 days will completely delete + destroy our aquafir + NOONE living here will have any drinking water or for any other use. A commiee in town hired an attorney who tried to file an injunction but was told that he was 2 weeks too late as there had been a notice in some little Mexican rag newspaper that no one read. The lawyer tried to file an injunction but was refused by the Williamson County judge who BTW is on the side of the quarry owner (if he has not been bought I will kiss your ass!) Oh, the Judges name is Gravel FWIW as he is always more concerned on feathering his nest than taking care of the citizens (WillCo needs the gravel for our growth) Fxxk the people + their drinking water. This will destroy entire rural communities + individuals like me + my neighbors

Too many people continue to cram into too small a place.

Want cheap, clean and abundant water? Move where it is. Ketchikan gets something like +100"of rain per year.

If you think that sucks, try dying of thirst.

There is a lot of earth that doesn't have culture and arts, doesn't have pretty beaches and sunsets, isn't listed in top ten resorts or retirement locales, but it is uncrowded, has abundant resources, and isn't in danger of failing as a society.

Bob, there is a lot of stupidity going on here. One very real solution is to drill beyond the 3rd Trinity Sands (our aquafir) into the almost limitless underground ocean of saline water that is totally worthless for drinking purposes, but the complaint is that it would cost them too much. How's that for stupid?

The real estate market is still 'hot'. Sell high and move away from the insanity.

The real estate market has cooled down. Our area is in an exceptional drought condition-part of the worst drought in 1200 years. Just today, Nevada and Arizona agreed to cut back on water use, via foregoing some of their ongoing allotment credits that are currently stored in Lake Mead, but the two states couldn't get an agreement because California, who is also part of the Lower Basin states, would not agree. I just don't know how anyone can build in the West when the drought status is exceptional or severe. Where are they going to come up with the water for new homes and businesses? You can only restrict lawns and golf courses so much and there still will not be enough water. Lake Mead is currently only 27% of capacity and has not been this low since it was being filled. Lake Powell has a similar problem, combined with fill in from sediment over the years, and competing water needs from the Upper Basin states.

We have always had water issues, being in the desert.

But, our government knew it, and plans were made to build desalination plants.

We now have excess and supply to our neighbors.

Read in the UK the government sold water rights to private companies.

They have neglected maintenance, as they have millions of gallons lost due to leaks.

Also apparently we’re given money to build desalination plants - two years over due.

Oh, those managing those failed companies are getting bonuses

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
The real estate market is still 'hot'. Sell high and move away from the insanity.

Actually Ann, the real estate market, at least here in North Texas, has cooled significantly. Last year, I was selling 2 new homes a month to be built. This YEAR, I've sold 2 with the prospect of one large one still undecided.

We put our house on the market about 2 months ago. Had 3 lookers the first week, no offers. No additional interest.

Prices and interest rates have just about killed the market for now.

USG, I had heard that Lake's Mead + Powell ere suffering + your whole area as well. The 2 closest towns here are Georgetown + Round Rock. About 45 years ago the Corp Of Engineers put in Lake Georgetown + upon completion, due to the proximity gave Georgetown 1st choice on buying the lake. But the city fathers in their infinite wisdom declined so Round Rock was only too happy to buy it. So now Georgetown has to pay Round Rock for water; after Round Rock takes theirs 1st of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
The real estate market is still 'hot'. Sell high and move away from the insanity.

Actually Ann, the real estate market, at least here in North Texas, has cooled significantly. Last year, I was selling 2 new homes a month to be built. This YEAR, I've sold 2 with the prospect of one large one still undecided.

We put our house on the market about 2 months ago. Had 3 lookers the first week, no offers. No additional interest.

Prices and interest rates have just about killed the market for now.

Todd, yes, I am seeing the market slow here too on the 'spendy' homes. What's always interesting to see is how many custom and million dollar properties there are around here which popped up as soon as the real estate market exploded. I've mentioned before how I thought the land prices were really inflated for what you get here in the Ozarks.

A friend and former coworker in Vermont just listed their home earlier this week. It sold in two days. So I think some areas are still blazing. Theirs was a nice average New England abode and not a custom/fancy place.

I wonder what they will do now with the downward trend? I suspect dropping prices won't be enough. Maybe people spent the wad that had it already? I know there are people very interested still in my mom's place in Michigan. It's worth a good chunk of change.

I just hope building supplies drop in prices soon. I need to do some repairs but won't pay 0biden economy $$$.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
The real estate market is still 'hot'. Sell high and move away from the insanity.

Actually Ann, the real estate market, at least here in North Texas, has cooled significantly. Last year, I was selling 2 new homes a month to be built. This YEAR, I've sold 2 with the prospect of one large one still undecided.

We put our house on the market about 2 months ago. Had 3 lookers the first week, no offers. No additional interest.

Prices and interest rates have just about killed the market for now.

Todd, yes, I am seeing the market slow here too on the 'spendy' homes. What's always interesting to see is how many custom and million dollar properties there are around here which popped up as soon as the real estate market exploded. I've mentioned before how I thought the land prices were really inflated for what you get here in the Ozarks.

A friend and former coworker in Vermont just listed their home earlier this week. It sold in two days. So I think some areas are still blazing. Theirs was a nice average New England abode and not a custom/fancy place.

I wonder what they will do now with the downward trend? I suspect dropping prices won't be enough. Maybe people spent the wad that had it already? I know there are people very interested still in my mom's place in Michigan. It's worth a good chunk of change.

I just hope building supplies drop in prices soon. I need to do some repairs but won't pay 0biden economy $$$.

So far, lumber is the only supply that has significantly dropped in price. But we are starting to see some softening on what laborer's are demanding. We can negotiate a bit currently at least, whereas 2 to 3 months ago, they just demanded and you had to pay because no one would do the work cheaper. We are now starting to fire subs that routinely overcharge and replace with more reasonable numbers. That really wasn't possible a few months ago because if you fired a sub, he could just move to the next builder and work the same day for his commanded price.

As a builder, I naturally don't want to see a downturn in the market, but the way the suppliers and subs took advantage of the Covid related supply chain shortages, they really need to suffer a bit and be returned to reality on prices. I'm actually looking forward to the price adjustments and hopefully return to some stability in prices between the time you quote a price to a new client and when it's actually installed in a house. For instance, the lead time from when we first meet with a client to discuss a new home and signing of the contract is usually about 3 months. Then, depending on the bank, it usually takes about 3 more months before they close their loan. If we are working in the city, add another 2 months for a permit. So from the time you quote the house until you break ground, is often 8 months. Then the construction period takes another 7 to 9 months IF you stay ahead of the supply chain shortages. There has been WAY too much opportunity in that time frame for prices to skyrocket. So much so that our banks are requiring a minimum of 20% contingency line to cover the price increases. I'm ready for that to come to an end and be able to quote a price and expect it to come it close to or under that number.

It's been a crazy 2 years in the home building business. I'm willing to wait out a downturn if we get stability back. Pre-Covid, our contracts were fixed price contracts. It didn't take long to realize we had to change to every line item being an "allowance".

Well, there is your answer. It is all about money! But, as a poster mentioned, once the aquifer goes dry, they will be forced to drill deeper. The big value of ancient aquifer water is for bottled water. Here in SC, a company built a business bottling our ancient aquifer water that is more than a million years old based on travel from source. $1.50 for an 8 oz bottle!

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
Bob, there is a lot of stupidity going on here. One very real solution is to drill beyond the 3rd Trinity Sands (our aquafir) into the almost limitless underground ocean of saline water that is totally worthless for drinking purposes, but the complaint is that it would cost them too much. How's that for stupid?

Of course, its all about the money + I'm sure that is why they have that judge Gravel in their pocket. Excuse me but I have NO way to see any rationalization on any corp. that takes drinking water from the community to run their plant.

Certain elements, like water and electricity, should be run by the government.

Giving them to commercial operators to fleece the public is not right.

These only care about making as much money as they can.

The government should run them efficiently, at a cost effective way.

Here, where I live, I own my wells. I have two bore holes and a natural spring on this property. I control the use and no one else has access. No one is close by anyway. I enjoy very clean and pure water since this area is not a crop ag area. No chemicals in the ground water, etc.

The electric provider is actually a private cooperative owned by all the people who are connected to them. We rural Americans enjoy very low rates, comparatively, to urban people who have govt run utilities. In fact, my coop has not raised rates in over four years due to wise energy investments and also a diverse collection of sources.

These systems work because there is no government control. It's for the people, by the people.

Ann,
I own my own well also as do all my neighbors. The state wants to meter everyones private well + collect a fee/tax/whatever, same thing.The 1869 Texas constitution(after the end of martial law) declares all waterways as public domain. As much as I hate to see regulation + government interfierence I would much prefer that to running out of water all together.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Certain elements, like water and electricity, should be run by the government.

Giving them to commercial operators to fleece the public is not right.

These only care about making as much money as they can.

The government should run them efficiently, at a cost effective way.

TRUST ME I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT!
competition is what should be regulating prices, NOT the government. the government doesn't give a damn whats fair or right. they get paid regardless, unlike a business owner that has to compete to survive.

Here in Colorado there is a big difference between 'surface' water and 'aquifer' water. As I understand it, essentially all the surface water was spoken for the year we became a state and rights to that water were based upon first use. Some people here are sitting on rights that go back to 1876. Today, if you want to use surface water, you have to buy the rights from someone that already has them. All wells are permitted by the state and you can't just drill and pump.
Aquifers are a different animal. Lots of speculators, shady operators, developers, etc. want to tap 'unused' aquifers and sell the waters to the cities. Lots of lawyers, lots of $$ and lots of fighting. Cities are buying up farm land to get the water rights and then drying up the land and diverting the water. As we dry up there is going to be more fighting and no one is willing to just say no to more development. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
Here in Colorado there is a big difference between 'surface' water and 'aquifer' water. As I understand it, essentially all the surface water was spoken for the year we became a state and rights to that water were based upon first use. Some people here are sitting on rights that go back to 1876. Today, if you want to use surface water, you have to buy the rights from someone that already has them. All wells are permitted by the state and you can't just drill and pump.
Aquifers are a different animal. Lots of speculators, shady operators, developers, etc. want to tap 'unused' aquifers and sell the waters to the cities. Lots of lawyers, lots of $$ and lots of fighting. Cities are buying up farm land to get the water rights and then drying up the land and diverting the water. As we dry up there is going to be more fighting and no one is willing to just say no to more development. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

C.G.B.

I've been told, whiskey is for drinking and water is for fighting. I farm 90 acres northeast of Denver. Our water for this season was cut 50%, with the cost of fuel and fertilizer it's been a tough year.

quote:

Originally posted by Norman Conquest:
Ann,
I own my own well also as do all my neighbors. The state wants to meter everyones private well + collect a fee/tax/whatever, same thing.The 1869 Texas constitution(after the end of martial law) declares all waterways as public domain. As much as I hate to see regulation + government interfierence I would much prefer that to running out of water all together.

Sorry, Randy, no way would I ever allow something like that. You will lose.

Your area has gotten urbanized and there is no going back. They will take and tax all they can from now on. The only way to go forward is to move. Most people end up putting up with it so the process never stops.

I just recently saw that the country is headed for a triple la nina weather pattern. Than means more of what has been going on is on tap for next year. Buckle up because this may be a long stretch of several years. The desert southwest is sucking up water due to high populations and isn't going to stop. No doubt there will be a lot of water rights fighting to come. There are severe drought issues right now all over the world.

Just remember, the Dust Bowl was not a single year occurrence. With the current economics and millions of more humans streaming into the country each year this will not get better soon. EVERYTHING will remain in perpetual shortage.

i'd hate to be the guy that has to go put a meter on some of them good ole boys wells in south/west texas! when they say i'll shove it up your ass they mean i'm GONNA shove it up your ass!

I can hear it now, "Well ya'll better send another little government guy with his clipboard; that last one just disappered."

If anyone is interested in looking at this issue from the local perspective, pull up WWW. WilCAP. org.