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We had 7 hunting clubs bought up around us by millionaires .It put about 200 hunters without a place to hunt .I see this happening more and more .They are buying the land from timber companies selling the timber and dividing it into 5 acre house lots .I hate seeing this especially right next to out farm .Hunting as we know it will be gone within 20 years or so . | ||
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Something like this happened in Maine about 20 years ago. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Not really new. | |||
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Welcome to planet earth, but keep in mind we still have the best deal going..Ive traveled the world and about the only armed citizen is wearing a uniform, the rest are the haves and the have nots, and only the haves hunt..We have BLm and US Forest, billions of public hunting acres..God Bless America..The problem is population growth, where are we going to put the people???..Yep on those 5 ac. lots.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I believe the catalyst for the Maine private sales was a referendum that prohibited clear cutting. Paper companies, esp GP and IP, decided to sell quite a bit of their land holdings. But perhaps the biggest issue is the fact paper companies no longer own huge tracts of land; they sold them to free up cash on the balance sheet after overpaid consultants advised them to do so. The new model of many of these REITs is to sell the land after logging it off. I know our deer lease fell into that situation; the guy I hunt with bought 80 acres for about 80K. | |||
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I have lost all three of my places to hunt here in Kentucky due to the farms being turned into neighborhoods. | |||
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Early 90s I was living in North Carolina, ran into this a lot, often just before dawn, having driven two or three hours in the dark to reach state land. Tracts that were on the state land list turned out to have signs on them, said they had been leased to private clubs. Were they? I dunno. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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With massive population growth comes habitat loss.... White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Here in Northwest Montana ,Weyerhauser just sold six hundred and some thousand acres to a Georgia company called southern pine plantations for 145 million dollars cash. Newspaper said that valuation was $203 an acre. It is all prime timber/habitat and I know it's going to turn into 20 acre ranchettes if it goes through. This was all done on the sly they never let anyone know it was even for sale. Our county commissioners are working with some state legislators to get the governor involved in trying to quash it and work out some sort of deal even potentially for a state purchase. We'll see what happens! PS this was all prime hunting land that the community has historically had access to. It's always been held by timber companies and was only sold to weyerhauser a few years ago who by the way is no longer a timber company they are an REIT. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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What the world needs is a good old fashioned biblical plague. AIDS and Ebola just ain’t gettn it done All We Know Is All We Are | |||
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I seriously doubt it was done "on the sly." Weyco is a public company and has a duty to their shareholders to extract the maximum possible price. Consider the fact that eco nutjobs keep pushing for more restrictions on timber harvest, etc. WTF do you expect Weyco to do? If they can't log it, should they give it to you for free? A REIT is a corporate structure that invests in real estate. Many timber companies are REITs; the fact they are selling land has nothing to do with being a REIT. St Joe used to be a paper company. One day they figured they could make more money if they just developed their nearly 900 thousand acres of timberland. But hey guys, keep sending your emails with the message "Don't print this email to save trees." After all, we all know if it pays, it stays. | |||
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Wasn't a large part of that sale put in as public trust land for outdoor activity. I think I read the state give them millions of dollars to preserve a lot of it. | |||
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What we need to do is open the borders so more illegals can come here and take up space and commodities.Oh fudge ,we are already doing that!!  | |||
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It started here 30 years ago. They bought all the Pheasant Hunting in Eastern Washington. | |||
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That trust land was purchased by the state many years ago. It can be harvested for timber but not divided/sold. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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If the sale takes place without anyone in the state of Montana even being aware that it was "for sale", I would classify that as "on the sly". Obviously NOBODY expects to get the land for free but it sure seems like there are a number of groups and some state agencies that would like to have the opportunity to bid and retain it for timber and public access recreation. Blame the greenies if you want but this was just an insider deal between two huge corporations that dramatically affects MANY aspects of our community/region and they certainly don't care! "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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I keep harping about what America looks like with 400-500 million people living here. My god we breed like rabbits while importing millions at the same time. I wish someone would get a handle on what we could “happily” handle. No use shutting the gate if the cows are done out. | |||
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Of greater concern is the amount of land that the Japan investors are buying and at asking price, no negocialtion...Middle Eastern investors, Russians and others are buying our country, I have no problem with such if its controlled, but its not, and politicians are sure as hell getting their cut..The end result will be beef that's too high to eat.. Add to that the number of big ranches that exist or existed that raised huge number of cattle, that when the Monarch dies is split between the kids, and when the kid die, those smaller ranches get split again, its a never ending cycle Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson: Of greater concern is the amount of land that the Japan investors are buying and at asking price, no negocialtion...Middle Eastern investors, Russians and others are buying our country, I have no problem with such if its controlled, but its not, and politicians are sure as hell getting their cut..The end result will be beef that's too high to eat.. Add to that the number of big ranches that exist or existed that raised huge number of cattle, that when the Monarch dies is split between the kids, and when the kid die, those smaller ranches get split again, its a never ending cycle not to be the devil's advocate but just what did USA money do to the ranches in South America and their beef that we import? Hey I am all for America for American's first but left to regulate themselves most every American business soon out prices themselves from the American working man. | |||
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Wow! A lot of folks here think we have a population problem. Last poster seems to think we need more regulation on American business. Kind of surprising from a group of people whose hobby, passion, livelihood depends on pure American freedoms. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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We do have a population problem...it’s only growing. I’ll ask again- What does America look like with over 400 million people? Think our hunting/fishing opportunities will increase? Think we’ll have a couple more Wal-Marts? Think another few 100 thousand acres will be developed? Think the rich guy who buys the place you used to go hunting will still allow it? Farmers and ranchers are not buying farms and ranches, they can’t afford it-that is a major problem. | |||
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When I first read this, I expected to read that wealthy individuals were buying hunting land to hunt. Instead what I read is that developers are buying the land to develop in housing. While I get that many don't like it, I have a hard time faulting that. I think every landowner hopes that some thing like this can ultimately happen to their land. Change the use and increase the value. I hope it happens to mine. The population explosion in the world is a massive problem for all of us. | |||
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World population expected to increase from over 7 billion currently to over 11 billion by 2100. Shockingly, 9 countries will bear the vast majority of that boom.....mostly African countries but most surprising is THE USA! All by immigration! If the nutjobs on the left think there's not enough to steal from us and spread around now imagine when there's 500 million instead of 330 million! I'm not sure it can be stopped. | |||
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Having more people than we want in the areas we don't want them is not a Population problem. At worst it is a land management or an Allocation of resources problem. Fly out of any east coast city and you will see large swaths of open land before you hit 10,000 feet. Fly out of any Midwest city and you will see the same and then nothing else for most of the rest of your journey. American Farms are producing at least twice more product than the World markets can consume. We can produce twice what we do today in 10 year time. I am sensitive to the same phenomenon of losing hunting land or rights but that is not a population problem. I also think we have a huge Immigration problem but that is not a Population problem, that is a Legal issue that results in a Cost > Tax problem. A population problem has only two solutions, give birth to less or more die faster. Neither one of those "solutions" do I want anything to do with. Both have been well tried in the past. Both have been "documented" and written about in "scientific" terms in our fairly recent past. Horrors. We should run from the thought. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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The US needs an expanding population to grow Social Security revenue. The problem we have today is too many boomers getting ready to retire, living far longer than ever anticipated, and fewer workers replacing them to pay the taxes needed to pay benefits. | |||
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Thank you for the comment; we are making progress. However to accept your problem/solution we would have to agree we need to continue the Social Security program forever. That too is an allocation of resources issue. Choices. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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It's like SSG Stamper told me when I was a young LT: questions are easy...answers are hard. | |||
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Farmer here and landowner. Jesus Christ I hope I never get so hard up I sell my inheritance to the highest bidder. And I’m not the only one. Anyone who would think opposite is not a generational farmer/rancher. My family has blood sweat and tears in this. Literally. I sense I’m the only one on this thread. No one I know wants to sell their land. They ain’t making anymore of it. The problem is not everyone feels this way(absentee landowners are the worst), folks get divorced, die, shit happens. And fellow farmers/ranchers can’t compete with urban sprawl money coming out of town. And Fury- get your head out the sand. Those wide open spaces are being circled by vultures as we speak. That laissez-faire attitude gets us nowhere. Once the fruited plains and purple mountains majesty is paved its over. | |||
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“Landowners” who have nothing invested but money. If you love the outdoors you want these “landowners”. to go away. They’ll sell your fruited plains and purple mountains majesty in heart beat. | |||
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Tomahawker: If someone you have never met asks to hunt on your land for free do you let them? | |||
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No, my family hunts what we have and I’m out hunting most every day myself. I’m in the very eastern end of the of the corn belt. The county I live in took a bold step and declared only 2 houses per tract of land. It was controversial to say the least, but decades on it has saved our countryside. Go a county south and it’s a solid row of houses along the state routes. No one here has massive holdings where a deer could spend its life on one property. It’s not possible. Out of staters are not looking for hunting opportunities here. | |||
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I've enjoyed living on a small farm for the last 20 years. I've completely remodeled my house, I did it, I didn't hire someone to do it. I love my place and would be happy living here the rest of my life. But it isn't the same place I moved into 20 years ago. There are now several houses around me that weren't there 20 years ago. The hunting has been pretty lousy the last several years as well. I'll probably be moving this year. And it isn't for the reasons I listed above. I live in Illinois, the state is circling the drain and the only solution any of our wise and benevolent leaders can come up with is more taxes. I'm tired of paying taxes, fines, fees, tariffs, licensures, tithes and bribes to every bearocrat's fiefdom. My wealth is being destroyed, I told the farmer who rents my land he has dibs if we can come to an agreement on price. | |||
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No laissez-faire attitude here sir. Happy to provide my answers and do regularly. Farmer most of my life at least one of the jobs held at the same time..., still a landowner of that ground. Since the land is worn out, never was very good, we don't farm it anymore but we do manage it a ag land in grass, timber and Rocks, canyons. Full set of Country Bona Fide's here brother. I just reject Population as an issue here in USA as it stands today. I stand by my open land comments as well as they relate to Population. I also know that the Land is not as "open" access as it used to be. However the only solution to that is for someone who wants to "open" it up buys it and does so. That is the basis of our Country's founding as expressed in the "pursuit of Happiness" universally understood to contain Property rights of the individual and right to use them as the owner sees fit. Reading down a bit as a landowner, Yes I have allowed a walk up stranger to hunt on my land. Many times over the years. I don't live there now and we did restrict access after being abused. Our right as I just paid my tax bill to the County there. That county is made up of about 75% Public, Federal, managed lands where one can walk through their boots anytime you choose. Yes, the Elk and Deer have figured out where the hunters are and are not but they are free to choose as well no? Here in KS where I live now, we have a very successful "Walk in Hunting" program managed by the state where Landowners can sign up their land for small payments from the State for certain species and seasons. This has resulted in Thousands of Private land acres being opened for hunting and many of those acres also border State land open for hunting. There are answers to the questions.
"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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You posted this: Think the rich guy who buys the place you used to go hunting will still allow it? I can't see how a rich guy buying land and not allowing those who used to hunt it is any different from you. It is his now, and he can do as he pleases, just as you do. | |||
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Uhh, a person not allowing hunting because someone is already hunting there is completely justified by anyone’s standards. A rich guy buying land and not allowing hunting because it’s developed or he’s just plain anti hunting is what I’m talking about. You want farmers and ranchers to own land. We’ll have to agree to disagree on the population point. Can’t wait for the next Wal-Mart to be built. It would be one thing if they went in town and built, but they don’t. It’s always on the edge outside of town and that land will never see a rabbit again. And it’s happening all over America. Those big open spaces you see and like are on the way to pavement. Again what does America look like with 400, 500 million people? It looks like a dam suburb, full of people so far removed from the land they don’t know where milk comes from, couldn’t skin a squirrel if their life depended on it, and are completely willing to ban hunting. | |||
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We agree on that point sir. In fact we are already there and have been for two decades. Fortunately they, the so described, have been largely confined to the Blue states. They out number us here in Red but thank God our Liberties defined by the founders have allowed us to still have a voice in Government with the electoral College protecting our votes for the Chief Executive. I urge all folks on our side to engage in Local Government. It is a greater bulwark against issues than most perceive. Zoning starts at the town, then County. It only takes 4 or 5 people to make change happen if it's the will of the people. My best to you all. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Put er there pard, agree | |||
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You don't have to be rich to own land. Eish! ~Ann   | |||
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8-9k/acre here for farm ground. How many you want? | |||
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