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https://wyofile.com/hunters-al...ssing-case%EF%BF%BC/


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Hunters allege illegal harassment in corner-crossing case

Game and Fish investigator sent complaints against Elk Mountain Ranch to Carbon County attorney for review.

Angus M. Thuermer Jr.
by Angus M. Thuermer Jr.
February 2, 2022



Four hunters challenging criminal trespass charges in a corner-crossing case in Carbon County allege the operators of the Elk Mountain Ranch illegally harassed them while they were hunting and camping on public land.

The four Missouri men signed statements for a Wyoming Game and Fish officer who opened a law enforcement case and forwarded the complaints to the Carbon County attorney for review, according to court documents. Game and Fish case officer Jake Miller collected 12 signed pages on Oct. 15 that alleged “an abhorrent amount of hunter harassment” while the group spent about nine days hunting on BLM and/or state property near the ranch.

The dustup came as the men, camped on BLM land, used a ladder to climb over a fence-like obstacle at a four-corner checkerboard intersection of public and private land. The men said they never set foot on private land as they crossed kitty-corner from one public parcel to another to hunt on public land.

“Our group was watched, stalked and harrassed [sic] by these groups of individuals constantly from very early morning till hours past dark.”


Nevertheless, a Carbon County sheriff’s deputy cited Phillip G. Yeomans, Bradly H. Cape, John W. Slowensky and Zachary M. Smith on Oct. 4 for criminal trespass. All have pleaded not guilty. They asked Monday that the circuit court judge dismiss the charges.

Ranch employees spied on them to the point they couldn’t relieve themselves in private, stalked the group, harassed them in their tent, swore, yelled and intimidated them and caused one deer they were pursuing to run off, according to the allegations.

The bowhunters killed two elk and one deer but said one bag of game meat – the “highest tied” in a hanging cache — went missing. At one point ranch manager Steve Grende followed them slowly for about a half mile as they walked, they wrote. He was in a pickup within about 30 yards while they were on public land, their statements say.

Elk Mountain Ranch did not return a call seeking comment regarding the allegations.

Game and Fish investigator Miller forwarded the statements to the Carbon County attorney’s office “for review,” according to an incident report dated Dec. 14. Carbon County Attorney Ashley Mayfield Davis on Tuesday would not comment on either the corner crossing or hunter harassment incidents, citing policies that preclude public discussion of matters that may be under investigation or in court.

A ruined hunt

The men told the following story in their statements: They planned their trip for about a year, arrived in the area on Sept. 26 and camped on BLM land near Elk Mountain for about nine days.

Soon after arriving they saw one or two pickup trucks regularly parked for hours on a road near their camp. The trucks’ occupants appeared to be watching them. “Our group was watched, stalked and harrassed [sic] by these groups of individuals constantly from very early morning till hours past dark,” Slowensky wrote.



The apparent surveillance went on practically unabated. “We proceeded to hide ourselves as best we could while dropping our pants and going to the bathroom,” Smith wrote. While hunting on public land, several times they heard or saw vehicles approaching them. At one point the men said the occupants of four different vehicles were watching them.

During one near encounter on public land, an ATV presumably driven by ranch employees scared a deer the hunters were stalking “over the hill,” Smith wrote.

The confrontations came to a boiling point on Oct 4 when, the men claim, Grende raced up to them in a pickup, yelled “WTF” and told them to get back to their camp.

“Steve [Grende] followed us within 20/30 feet in his vehicle for quite a long distance harassing us as we were trying to hunt legal public land,” Slowensky wrote. Smith added: “he claimed he was keeping our location for the Sheriff’s Department. He then claimed he was hunting but didn’t have any orange on.”



Game and Fish’s Miller then called the hunters and told them to return to camp, their statements said. Although Miller and at least one deputy had several contacts with the hunters, they had not yet issued any citations, the four wrote.

That changed.

“Deputy Pat #671 [identified in court documents as Patrick Patterson] came and told us he was ordered to write us criminal tresspass [sic] citations.” Cape wrote. Some Wyoming landowners have maintained that any incursion over the airspace above private land constitutes trespass.

“I questioned as to how we were tresspassing [sic] when we never had been on private land…” Cape wrote. “He [Patterson] said he didn’t know and that we could explain it to the Judge.”

That, Yeomans claimed, was another offense.

“The last instance of hunter harassment would come from the county attorney’s office which instructed a sheriff deputy to come to our camp and cite us from criminal trespass even though no law had been broken and we were told so, several times by law enforcement.”

The group aborted the expedition, which cost thousands of dollars, early with one hunting tag unfilled. The experience left a bitter taste.

“Although we never hid from anyone, we were always worried about confrontation throughout the entirety of our trip,” Smith wrote. “The doings of Elk Mountain Ranch employees ruined our 2021 Wyoming hunting trip that took us all year to plan.”

Added Slowensky: “An immense amount of time, effort, money and aspirations of personal enjoyment of going on my first elk hunt in the great state of Wyoming were extinguished due to the actions, false allegations, intimidation, greed and complete disregard of proper and legal usage of public property and public space by the mentioned groups and individuals …”

The harassment law

At issue is a Wyoming law that makes it illegal to interfere with “the lawful taking of wildlife.” The corner-crossing charges against the four are for criminal trespass, not a hunting violation.

A Wyoming attorney general’s opinion from 2004 states that corner crossing may not be a game-law infraction. A hunting trespass violation requires a person “to hunt or intend to hunt on private property without permission,” the opinion states.



The law also makes it illegal to interfere with hunters by scaring off wildlife. It also is a misdemeanor for any organization or association to harass a legal hunter, an infraction punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 on the first offense.

Aggrieved parties also can file a civil suit.

“Actual damages recoverable may include, but are not limited to expenditures for licenses, travel, outfitters and guides and special equipment and supplies to the extent the expenditures are rendered futile by the person’s conduct in violation of this section,” the law states.“If the trier of fact finds that the unlawful conduct was malicious, it may award punitive damage to the injured party,” the statute reads.


ANGUS M. THUERMER JR.
Angus M. Thuermer Jr. is the natural resources reporter for WyoFile. He is a veteran Wyoming reporter and editor with more than 35 years experience in Wyoming. Contact him at angus@wyofile.com or (307)... More by Angus M. Thuermer Jr.


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Posts: 9363 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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I was told one couldn't jump corners in Wyoming.

Using a later never occurred to me.

Setting the legs on public property seems reasonable.
 
Posts: 19361 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Very interesting. I would also note that regardless of access, it still does not give anyone the right to harass a hunter that is hunting on public land. The wardens should have been writing some additional citations...
 
Posts: 376 | Location: USA | Registered: 26 March 2016Reply With Quote
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In Montana, we have that issue as well and legislation doesn’t seem to clarify it after few cases like that, law enforcement stays away from it for now
My humble,opinion is, if I don’t set foot on private while crossing corner then I’m good
Queastion though is, who owns the air you crossing ?


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Posts: 13376 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT or holed up in Lochsa | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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On the link, and also shown below, shows how this particular issue has got so contentious. The landowner has posted two of the four corners and put a chain between the signs. At the bottom of the picture you will see the "corner post" where the four properties meet. Hopefully there will be a well funded court case that decides this issue in Wyoming.



.

"Listen more than you speak, and you will hear more stupid things than you say."
 
Posts: 705 | Location: near Albany, NY | Registered: 06 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Been going on for years. 30-40 years ago there was a lady that hiked to the top doing the same thing to prove it could be done. Norm Parker was not a happy camper. Don't recall what ever happened to the case.
 
Posts: 1131 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 04 April 2009Reply With Quote
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I wonder how many times Elk Mtn steps on the public lands. Maybe its time to exclude certain people from using public lands. Fair is fair.

I hope these boys win their case and we can get the no access on corner to corner stuff put to bed at some point. The public should be able to access their public property.
 
Posts: 783 | Location: Utah, USA | Registered: 14 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by boarkiller:
In Montana, we have that issue as well and legislation doesn’t seem to clarify it after few cases like that, law enforcement stays away from it for now
My humble,opinion is, if I don’t set foot on private while crossing corner then I’m good
Queastion though is, who owns the air you crossing ?



Guys in montana do claim they own access to the air above their property that they can reasonably enjoy.

However, there is a weird thing in montana that unlike a lot of states that allow river access up to the high water mark, montanans are able to own the river bed, but people are still allowed to float the river provided they do not touch the bottom of the river. There are cases of owners just waiting for a person to touch the riverbottom with an oar so they can bitch at them.

BUT.. that means that for the sake of accessing a public waterway, montanta essentially allows a person to occupy the airspace above private land provided the person dows not touch it. In a corner crossing situation, one could argue the person corner crossing from one public land to another is violating no trespassing law in the same way a person floating a river over private land.


This is a huge issues here in idaho as well. My opinion is that X amount of public land must have Y number of public access points - period.
 
Posts: 7784 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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I would want to to ask the Wyoming Attorney General when have they ever prosecuted and won a trespass conviction for someone waiving their arm over someone's property.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10055 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
This is a huge issues here in idaho as well. My opinion is that X amount of public land must have Y number of public access points - period.


this ain't no joke.
I can show you miles and miles of public land that has no access except by helicopter because it is surrounded by a ranch or ranches.
a 3-4' wide path would sure make things easier.
 
Posts: 4969 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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If then ranchers are running cattle on public land.

Part of the lease agreement should be to allow access.

Montana has a program where they are buying access I have seen more and more areas that have been opened.
 
Posts: 19361 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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This is one of the top issues that inflames me with western hunting. I understand how these checkerboard tracts got started and it needs to be dealt with to the benefit of of the recreational public. The way it is now the ranch/boundary owners have their own private access to the exclusion of the public. So if they have 5,000 deeded acres and the other tracts entail 10,000 acres they more or less have 15,000 acres at their disposal not you. Wyoming in particular, that has excluded non-resident hunters from wilderness UNLESS you hunt with one of their cartel outfitters. I have hunted WY many times and it is a beautiful game rich state as other western states but they have used this and other issues to exclude DIY sportsmen.
As far as the air thing that was instituted as another BS roadblock. OnXmaps is a great tool to keep everybody honest. It's time to get a ruling that clarifies this big issue for all concerned.
The only way these hunters can prevail is it gets enough attention that the local gendarmes can't let the "Good Ole Boy" network prevail. I wouldn't be surprised if this rancher is also one of the outfitter cartel.


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Posts: 245 | Registered: 26 February 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I would want to to ask the Wyoming Attorney General when have they ever prosecuted and won a trespass conviction for someone waiving their arm over someone's property.


Mike I’m thinking of prosecuting the kids that cut my yard on the way to school.

Now rhat I’m 50 I reserve the right to be Uber-curmudgeonly.
 
Posts: 7784 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
If then ranchers are running cattle on public land.

Part of the lease agreement should be to allow access.

Montana has a program where they are buying access I have seen more and more areas that have been opened.


The Wilks boys are re-routing an established roadway so that it no longer passes through a huge chunk of BLM land.
 
Posts: 7784 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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This is a hold-over result from the corrupt 19th Century government policy of granting railroad companies land in exchange for building their own tracks. The railroad companies saw that they could control double the amount of land which they were otherwise granted if the grants were in a checkerboard arrangement -- every other section (square mile) out of a 36 section township. Since there were no helicopters in the 1870's the railroads, for all practical purposes, "owned" all of the land within their grants -- both surface and minerals. The value of hunting rights came much later.

Some states have "right of access" laws which requires a landowner who landlocks another landowner to provide an easement. However, this does NOT apply to governmental entities which own landlocked parcels, therefore the continuation of what amounts to the theft of public lands by private parties (the railroads or those who later acquired the land of the railroad grants.)
 
Posts: 13232 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RAR60:
This is one of the top issues that inflames me with western hunting. I understand how these checkerboard tracts got started and it needs to be dealt with to the benefit of of the recreational public. The way it is now the ranch/boundary owners have their own private access to the exclusion of the public. So if they have 5,000 deeded acres and the other tracts entail 10,000 acres they more or less have 15,000 acres at their disposal not you. Wyoming in particular, that has excluded non-resident hunters from wilderness UNLESS you hunt with one of their cartel outfitters. I have hunted WY many times and it is a beautiful game rich state as other western states but they have used this and other issues to exclude DIY sportsmen.
As far as the air thing that was instituted as another BS roadblock. OnXmaps is a great tool to keep everybody honest. It's time to get a ruling that clarifies this big issue for all concerned.
The only way these hunters can prevail is it gets enough attention that the local gendarmes can't let the "Good Ole Boy" network prevail. I wouldn't be surprised if this rancher is also one of the outfitter cartel.


The land we own in CO borders BLM and NF, which is effectively landlocked unless you go far to the north. It is why I bought the land.

What would be your solution? The feds could always buy out one of my neighbors and put in an easement.


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Posts: 7570 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
quote:
Originally posted by RAR60:
This is one of the top issues that inflames me with western hunting. I understand how these checkerboard tracts got started and it needs to be dealt with to the benefit of of the recreational public. The way it is now the ranch/boundary owners have their own private access to the exclusion of the public. So if they have 5,000 deeded acres and the other tracts entail 10,000 acres they more or less have 15,000 acres at their disposal not you. Wyoming in particular, that has excluded non-resident hunters from wilderness UNLESS you hunt with one of their cartel outfitters. I have hunted WY many times and it is a beautiful game rich state as other western states but they have used this and other issues to exclude DIY sportsmen.
As far as the air thing that was instituted as another BS roadblock. OnXmaps is a great tool to keep everybody honest. It's time to get a ruling that clarifies this big issue for all concerned.
The only way these hunters can prevail is it gets enough attention that the local gendarmes can't let the "Good Ole Boy" network prevail. I wouldn't be surprised if this rancher is also one of the outfitter cartel.


The land we own in CO borders BLM and NF, which is effectively landlocked unless you go far to the north. It is why I bought the land.

What would be your solution? The feds could always buy out one of my neighbors and put in an easement.


I’ve always wondered how they would deal with this. Some folks have paid a premium to purchase ground that gives them access to public that is lightly hunted and to force easements would devalue the land. Not saying this is right or wrong, I’ve just wondered how they’d deal with it

As for the corner crossing, I’ve always been under the impression that corner crossing in Wyoming is illegal and that’s it. How a person could knowingly corner cross illegally and then cry victim is absurd to me.

I’m pro landowner and pro public access so I don’t know how they’re going to sift through all of this. I also believe that hunter harassment should be prosecutor the fullest extent of the law.

This is a mess
 
Posts: 2092 | Location: Windsor, CO | Registered: 06 December 2005Reply With Quote
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I am very pro-landowner. My family owns land.

And at the same time it is absurd that "We", public land owners, are locked out of access to our lands. My opinion is simple, if no consideration is given for general public access, then the adjoining landowners should also be excluded from access. Either everyone can access our public lands or no one. An adjoining landowner can enjoy his own piece of ground and he can enjoy the open space next to him, but he shouldn't be able to access, trespass, or use that public land if the public has no access to it.
 
Posts: 783 | Location: Utah, USA | Registered: 14 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
The land we own in CO borders BLM and NF, which is effectively landlocked unless you go far to the north. It is why I bought the land.


Then it is not really land locked is it.

Most are talking short of flying in there is no legal access.
 
Posts: 19361 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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What is a plane flies over the said private property. Are the occupants trespassing?


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"He Who Farts in Church, Must Sit in Own Pew".
 
Posts: 363 | Location: Moorpark, CA | Registered: 18 May 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MC:
I am very pro-landowner. My family owns land.

And at the same time it is absurd that "We", public land owners, are locked out of access to our lands. My opinion is simple, if no consideration is given for general public access, then the adjoining landowners should also be excluded from access. Either everyone can access our public lands or no one. An adjoining landowner can enjoy his own piece of ground and he can enjoy the open space next to him, but he shouldn't be able to access, trespass, or use that public land if the public has no access to it.


Actually, there used to a cataloged road in the NF behind my house, but since no locals would give access, the NF closed it to all motorized vehicles - just what I wanted!! You can't target shoot over a marked NFS road, but it isn't one anymore.

There is one neighbor who I think sells access and his clients drive on that road. I am the first guy to either tell them it isn't allowed, or call the local NF ranger (I have his number).

Hell, if anyone asked to have access, I would let them. I was bullshitting the other day with my plumber and we started showing pics; I told him he was welcome to get access anytime.


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Posts: 7570 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
The land we own in CO borders BLM and NF, which is effectively landlocked unless you go far to the north. It is why I bought the land.


Then it is not really land locked is it.

Most are talking short of flying in there is no legal access.


It is extremely difficult; you have to go over some pretty high ridges/mountains, but it can be done.


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Posts: 7570 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Was on a guided elk hunt in WY and came across 2 men arguing rather loudly. Went to check on them and one was a local DIY hunter and the other a ranch hand. Ranch hand claimed hunter crossed onto private property and hunter said no way. Both were holding firearms.
Being from Texas BLM was new to me. My outfitter later explained it and I can see where it gets messy. Here at home everyone and everything just about has a fence.
In this case I have to side with the hunters. My basis is how can it be public land if the public has no access?
The prior thought about restricting neighboring owners from landlocked land is kind of pointless in that it almost impossible to enforce.
 
Posts: 24 | Registered: 28 January 2022Reply With Quote
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My post deals with corner crossing not cutting across someone's land some excessive distance from that corner. If I am truly crossing (checkerboard) at corner I am not harming or violating the landowner except how the cartel has defined it. I am pro landowners rights but this doesn't run afoul of that. Like anything else, it's change and they will fight it. I also chuckle that when some of the big ranches are marketed it might say 20,000 acres then reading on it says 3,000 acres (deeded) 17,000 acre lease.
What you are buying is a 3,000 acre ranch w/improvements and a lease from the taxpayers at a dirt cheap price that possibly has corners the taxpayers legally can't cross to access the 17,000 acres. They also could be running a hunting operation on it and they hunt mostly the
public. it's ambiguous to me.

quote:
Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
quote:
Originally posted by RAR60:
This is one of the top issues that inflames me with western hunting. I understand how these checkerboard tracts got started and it needs to be dealt with to the benefit of of the recreational public. The way it is now the ranch/boundary owners have their own private access to the exclusion of the public. So if they have 5,000 deeded acres and the other tracts entail 10,000 acres they more or less have 15,000 acres at their disposal not you. Wyoming in particular, that has excluded non-resident hunters from wilderness UNLESS you hunt with one of their cartel outfitters. I have hunted WY many times and it is a beautiful game rich state as other western states but they have used this and other issues to exclude DIY sportsmen.
As far as the air thing that was instituted as another BS roadblock. OnXmaps is a great tool to keep everybody honest. It's time to get a ruling that clarifies this big issue for all concerned.
The only way these hunters can prevail is it gets enough attention that the local gendarmes can't let the "Good Ole Boy" network prevail. I wouldn't be surprised if this rancher is also one of the outfitter cartel.


The land we own in CO borders BLM and NF, which is effectively landlocked unless you go far to the north. It is why I bought the land.

What would be your solution? The feds could always buy out one of my neighbors and put in an easement.


Zim 2006
Zim 2007
Namibia 2013
Brown Bear Togiak Nat'l Refuge Sep 2010
Argentina 2019
RSA 2023
SCI Life Member
USMC
 
Posts: 245 | Registered: 26 February 2013Reply With Quote
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Spot on post.
 
Posts: 1131 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 04 April 2009Reply With Quote
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This is an ongoing fight here in Utah. I am Pro-Landowner and Pro-Public Land.

I have seen both sides of this. There are idiots out there that trespass, knowingly, then try to justify their actions. They should be prosecuted/ticketed.

Years back, my late friend was deer hunting on public land that was surrounded by private. The landowner had harassed his family in years past and was up there hunting with clients. The landowners hunters kick up a nice buck and it runs right into my friend. He shoots the buck and all hell breaks loose (he shot it on public). The landowner walks up to my friend, along with his posse and grabs my friends gun (I believe it was leaning up against a tree). My friend was young, maybe 17 or 18 at the time and I guess they thought they could intimidate him. He grabbed the landowner and was ready to beat his head in. The guy was smart and backed down. They ended up going to court over it and my friend (and his older brother, and another friend) easily won the case.

Another instance was when I was elk hunting with some Texas friends in Northern Utah, near my house. I knew right where the boundary was and we were hunting the public side. This idiot and his friend came up to us and accused us of trespassing. The conversation got heated and fortunately we went our separate ways. These idiots, come to find out, were there as guests on the ranch. Little did they know that I knew the ranch owner. After our "discussion" I went to the Landowner's house and told him the issue and exactly where I was hunting. He was pissed at these "guests". I believe they were kicked off the ranch. I hope they were.

There are many are instances of issues (from both sides) and it certainly can ruin a hunt. Onyx is absolutely a must out here and I use it constantly.
 
Posts: 2640 | Location: Utah | Registered: 23 February 2011Reply With Quote
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From BLM.gov

Q What are the rights of the public to cross private lands to access public land?

The public may cross private lands to access public lands when a public road or right-of-way (easement) for public access exists across the private lands. In all other circumstances, the public must first obtain permission from the landowner to cross private lands. The landowner is not obligated to grant such permission.

Q What does the law say with regard to corner crossing?

There is no specific state or federal laws regarding corner crossings. Corner crossings in the checkerboard land pattern area or elsewhere are not considered legal public access.

Q Do public lands in the checkerboard or in other intermingled land ownership areas have public access?

Public access to public lands is often limited in the checkerboard and in other public and private intermingled land ownership areas in Wyoming. If there is a public road or a right-a-way (easement) for public access through the checkerboard or intermingled land, then the public has legal access to the public land crossed by the public road.



That’s what it says. Myself as well as thousands upon thousands of other hunters have not crossed corners because it’s not a legal access point. These guys got what they wanted and are now playing victim and raising money. I feel they should have raised money to get the laws changed first

Had they started a go fund me to do this the right way I’d pitch in and help. I just don’t like how they did it at all. I’ve never been a fan of people pushing the limits, not complying with rules and then playing victim. I don’t like it when people push cops to the point of being arrested and then claiming police brutality and I don’t like this. It’s all from the same playbook IMO
 
Posts: 2092 | Location: Windsor, CO | Registered: 06 December 2005Reply With Quote
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There is no specific state or federal laws regarding corner crossings. Corner crossings in the checkerboard land pattern area or elsewhere are not considered legal public access.


If there is no law saying it is or is not legal.

What authority to they have to say it is illegal.

Sorry just saying it is illegal dose not make it so.
 
Posts: 19361 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by drummondlindsey:


Q What does the law say with regard to corner crossing?

There is no specific state or federal laws regarding corner crossings. Corner crossings in the checkerboard land pattern area or elsewhere are not considered legal public access.



That’s what it says. Myself as well as thousands upon thousands of other hunters have not crossed corners because it’s not a legal access point. These guys got what they wanted and are now playing victim and raising money. I feel they should have raised money to get the laws changed first

Had they started a go fund me to do this the right way I’d pitch in and help. I just don’t like how they did it at all. I’ve never been a fan of people pushing the limits, not complying with rules and then playing victim. I don’t like it when people push cops to the point of being arrested and then claiming police brutality and I don’t like this. It’s all from the same playbook IMO


This issue would most likely remain a gray area if no one forced the issue. Landowners are making a lot of money by denying access to public land, and then selling that access to public land(our land) to the highest bidder. This is clearly not on the best interest of the public.

There are a lot of landowners doing underhanded stuff to remove public access to public land.


Should the land locked public land be “owned by default” by the private landowner who has it landlocked?

Anyway, I see these hunters as guys who are trying to prove, it at least resolve, a point of contention. I don’t see them playing the victim as far as the trespassing goes.

And as far as their harassment case: if they were on public land, the landowners had no right to harassment them, and from their story, they were harassed. I could see the landowner razzing them if they were on his private land, but they weren’t. If the law didn’t have the authority to remove them, then the landowner has no right to harass them.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6834 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by drummondlindsey:


Q What does the law say with regard to corner crossing?

There is no specific state or federal laws regarding corner crossings. Corner crossings in the checkerboard land pattern area or elsewhere are not considered legal public access.



That’s what it says. Myself as well as thousands upon thousands of other hunters have not crossed corners because it’s not a legal access point. These guys got what they wanted and are now playing victim and raising money. I feel they should have raised money to get the laws changed first

Had they started a go fund me to do this the right way I’d pitch in and help. I just don’t like how they did it at all. I’ve never been a fan of people pushing the limits, not complying with rules and then playing victim. I don’t like it when people push cops to the point of being arrested and then claiming police brutality and I don’t like this. It’s all from the same playbook IMO


This issue would most likely remain a gray area if no one forced the issue. Landowners are making a lot of money by denying access to public land, and then selling that access to public land(our land) to the highest bidder. This is clearly not on the best interest of the public.

There are a lot of landowners doing underhanded stuff to remove public access to public land.


Should the land locked public land be “owned by default” by the private landowner who has it landlocked?

Anyway, I see these hunters as guys who are trying to prove, it at least resolve, a point of contention. I don’t see them playing the victim as far as the trespassing goes.

And as far as their harassment case: if they were on public land, the landowners had no right to harassment them, and from their story, they were harassed. I could see the landowner razzing them if they were on his private land, but they weren’t. If the law didn’t have the authority to remove them, then the landowner has no right to harass them.


Great post Jason
 
Posts: 2640 | Location: Utah | Registered: 23 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Seems insane to me that there isn't an easement, meaning a small access corridor to EVERY piece of public land in this country. Plain and simply....it's greed. I hope it becomes a landmark case.

That said, people aren't always the greatest "guests" on any land be it public or private. It's just another reason I hate people in general.


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Posts: 246 | Location: US of A | Registered: 03 April 2020Reply With Quote
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https://www.hcn.org/issues/54....d-they-never-touched



Why four hunters in Wyoming were charged with trespassing on land they never touched

A checkerboard pattern of parcel ownership complicates public land access in the West.
Kylie Mohr

Feb. 14, 2022

Bountiful big game in the alpine meadows and timbered ravines of Wyoming’s Elk Mountain drew four Missouri hunters to the area last fall. They encountered several points where the corners of four land parcels met: two public and two private plots, alternating like the squares of a checkerboard. The camo-clad bow hunters tried to move as if they were checkers on the landscape, stepping diagonally between the Bureau of Land Management parcels where they were hunting in order to avoid lots that belonged to the privately owned Elk Mountain Ranch.


Land ownership in southern Wyoming, like much of the West, is a patchwork of interspersed parcels. Wyoming’s checkerboard originated when the federal government took land from the Shoshone, Arapaho, Lakota, Cheyenne and other tribal nations, often by breaking treaties, and gave alternating parcels to railroads to encourage development. The result resembles a neat grid on paper, but a messy landscape in real life.

The men had numerous encounters with an irate ranch manager, as well as with Wyoming Game and Fish officers and Carbon County sheriff’s deputies. According to the hunters, officials told them they’d done nothing wrong. But on Oct. 4, a deputy greeted them in camp with criminal trespass citations that carried up to six months in jail and a penalty of up to $750.

The hunters never actually set foot on private land; they used a stepladder to hopscotch over the corners. But in doing so, they violated the airspace above the land, which belongs to the landowner. The case, now pending in Carbon County Circuit Court, sheds light on what’s called “corner crossing,” traveling between public land parcels where the corners touch. The verdict could clarify if, and how, the public can access millions of acres of public land. A 2018 report from the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and the map app company onX found 2.28 million acres of federal and state land in Wyoming are inaccessible due to checkerboarding — effectively turning some public lands into an extension of surrounding landowners’ private backyards.

Like other Western states, Wyoming has no statute explicitly allowing or prohibiting corner crossing. Opponents say it’s a problem because even if the land isn’t physically impacted, invading its airspace erodes private property rights. Phone calls to the ranch, owned by wealthy businessman Fred Eshelman, weren’t returned. A 2004 Wyoming attorney general’s opinion states that while corner crossing doesn’t violate the state’s hunting laws, it “may still be a criminal trespass” — something game wardens lack the authority to enforce and must refer to the local sheriff or county attorney.

“This is a murky legal area, due in part to the failure of Congress to ensure access to landlocked federal public lands.”
It’s messy elsewhere, too: Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife officers won’t cite people for corner crossing, but attorneys general in Utah and Colorado have informed their state wildlife agencies that it’s illegal. “This is a murky legal area, due in part to the failure of Congress to ensure access to landlocked federal public lands,” said Martin Nie, a professor of natural resource policy at the University of Montana.

While this case involves hunters, anyone wanting to access public land — whether for climbing, hiking, foraging or bird watching — has an interest in the outcome. A hunter’s attorney filed a motion to dismiss the charges in January, arguing that federal law prohibits people from preventing free passage through public lands. A jury trial is currently scheduled for April.

If they’re found guilty, the men could appeal the decision to the Wyoming Supreme Court, but even then, any ruling would apply only to Wyoming. “The hopes of what this would resolve might be overblown,” said Joel Webster, vice president of western conservation for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. “And, in fact, it could make it harder to work constructively with landowners.”



Then there’s the chance of political pushback. “My fear is that it inevitably lands at the Legislature, which historically hasn’t been the place to solve this,” said Jess Johnson, the Wyoming Wildlife Federation’s government affairs director. Bills to legalize corner crossing died in Wyoming in 2011, Montana in 2013 and Nevada in 2017. Johnson thinks the conversation will be more productive when tension from the October dispute dies down. “(The way) to change really hot-button policy issues that have lots of emotion around them is not by lighting a bonfire,” she said. “It’s a slow burn.”

Kylie Mohr is an editorial intern for High Country News writing from Montana. Email her at kylie.mohr@hcn.org or submit a letter to the editor. See our letters to the editor policy.


Kathi

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Posts: 9363 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Like others said, if it is not prohibited specifically, then it is not illegal thus it is allowed
That’s my book and opinion of few attorneys
That being said, it needs to be addressed and will be one day after some landmark case
My opinion on all public lands is, no cows/livestock period, if you want to be rancher , have your own land and I have nothing against anybody making living.
Public land is simply OURS and wild bird, game and flora’s and not some individual, who just leases it for cows as livestock is extremely destructive and it takes space from wild nature
Call me all you want gentlemen , that is my stance…


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
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Posts: 13376 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT or holed up in Lochsa | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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In Michigan there are a lot of 'private lakes', meaning it's surrounded by private land with no public access. On lakes over a certain size, the State (Department of Natural Resources) has been buying/swapping land and creating public access to the lakes. Not popular with the landowners around the lake.
 
Posts: 3276 | Location: Western Slope Colorado, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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There is indeed a GoFundMe page for this. Appears to have been organized by the Wyoming Chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers (?)

I'm going to donate to this. I lived in Wyoming for 16 years and still hunt there. I've had personal experience with some large landowners who felt the public land they 'controlled' was theirs alone.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/cor...legal-fee-fundraiser

Here's more info on the BackCountry Hunters and Anglers.

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/
 
Posts: 3276 | Location: Western Slope Colorado, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Matt Norman:
In Michigan there are a lot of 'private lakes', meaning it's surrounded by private land with no public access. On lakes over a certain size, the State (Department of Natural Resources) has been buying/swapping land and creating public access to the lakes. Not popular with the landowners around the lake.


In Wis I worked with a guy who who fly into private lakes like that and fish.

The land owners would jump up and down and scream.

But in all reality they couldn't do anything about it.
 
Posts: 19361 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I'm going to donate to this. I lived in Wyoming for 16 years and still hunt there. I've had personal experience with some large landowners who felt the public land they 'controlled' was theirs alone


Run into that same thing in Montana.

They think if they run cattle on it they own it.
 
Posts: 19361 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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and if I may add...outfitters same thing as ranchers, lease private land...
and I have guided and know plenty of outfitters here
most time they act like they own the area and act on it at times


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”
 
Posts: 13376 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT or holed up in Lochsa | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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Think the worm has turned on this one. Imagine how many emboldened, step ladder and OnX carrying recreationalists will be afield this year. A LOT. Private landowners/outfitters who have opposed this have run a really great bluff for my entire hunting life. It's over soon now.
 
Posts: 1337 | Registered: 17 February 2002Reply With Quote
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To complicate, or not, the matter of who owns the airspace, some organizations have begun finding out the state and federal laws for legal flight areas for drones. In this instance, can a drone fly over the crossing, and at what altitude? And if they can, does that not make a human crossing also legal? I don't have any court cases to cite, but I know it has been brought.


Larry

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 3942 | Location: Kansas USA | Registered: 04 February 2002Reply With Quote
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