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| One of Us |
I just picked up a nice old Sauer drilling in 16/65mm and 8x57jr ( .318") The short shotshells are easy to obtain locally. I know that Sellier & Bellot still makes ammo for the rifle, but does any one else? I'll use S&B if necessary but it is not my favourite brand. If I remember correctly Norma and RWS both dropped the old .318 dia loading. Any leads for me? | ||
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I checked my Frankonia catalog and they listed S&B as the only supplier. sorry DLN | |||
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The S&B regulates very well in the older guns in my experience, and at the slower velocities of that round, their bullets work well enough. The Norma ammo was too hot, IMO! RWS was the best, but now is no longer with the mergers and S&B marketing theirs for 1/2 the cost of the others. Hirtenberger made it also, but I can't find any these days. | |||
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I did'nt know that RWS quit making the .318 JR ammo. That dos'nt matter to me because I reload all mine but I use RWS 196 gr 318 bullets. Now I'm afraid they may have stopped making them also. Anyone know? I'm down to my last 60 or so loose bullets. I do have 75 or so loaded up also but those have been going fast. Longwalker - What is your source for the 2&1/2" 16 ga shells? I stocked up on them at old western scrounger years ago and that supply is also dwendeling. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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That little hole in the wall gun shop across from Sears had some 16ga 2 1/2" stuff. GUN RUNNERS 601 East Northern Lights Blvd#D Anchorage, Alaska 99503 (907)245-5486 NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Akshooter, I get factory loaded 16 ga. 2-1/2" ( 65mm) from Kent cartridge, they import the "made in UK" Gamebore Traditional shells to Canada. Any dealer who stocks Kent shells can get them. I also load my own, using components from Ballistic Products and data from the 16 ga. Society's low pressure loading group. | |||
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another question about handloading 8x57jr - I can get Woodleigh .318 bullets at Trade Ex in Montreal, but was wondering about loading the smaller diameter bullets using standard RCBS 8x57 dies. I read somewhere to just remove the expander plug when resizing and bullet tension will be OK. Is that what I should do? Any downside to this, or should I order custom dies? | |||
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Originally posted by Mike Brooks
Thanks Mike Originally posted by Longwalker I read somewhere to just remove the expander plug when resizing and bullet tension will be OK. Is that what I should do? Thats Exactly what I do DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Why bother with 2 1/2" shot or slugs shells in the 16 ga cape gun. Simply have a good gunsmith open the chamber to 2, 3/34" and while your at it, if your gun is like most German 16 ga shot barrels it is choked way too tight, so have the barrel choke opened up to Modified. I have a H. Berella cape gun 16 ga/8X57JR, and I did those mods to mine. Now it will print a S&B 196 gr bullet right on the sights at 100 yds, and print a Brenneke slug right beside the rifle shot also at 100 yds. The 7 1/2, 0r no 6 shot patterns a very dense 30" pattern at 35 yds as well. Norma makes brass, and a very fine 196 gr bullet for the .318 8X57JR, and like Luv2safari says the S&B ammo shoots very well in my gun as well. The 16 ga 8X57JR cape gun is a fine hunting combo for just about anything you would hunt in North America, and much of Africa. With a good light gathering or illuminated scope the 8X57JR 196 gr Norma soft point is about perfect for leopard, or black bear on bait. Mine has served as a fine muledeer gun in New Mexico where turkey, Blue quail, Black bear and deer season is all open at the same time. Very versitile firearm! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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If you decide to go forward with Mac's suggestion of opening the chambers, proceed with extreme caution. Unfortunately, the barrels on the two drillings I had with 65mm chambers were two thin to be safely opened up to 70mm. Duane Wiebe's recommendation to me was that the barrel walls over the chamber and forcing cone should be at least 0.095 inches thick. As to 2-1/2 inch 16-gauge shells, RSI also makes excellent shot shells. Dave One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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Originally posted by loun-n-boomer
Ive had this same discussion with one of my gunmaker gurus and his opinion is that many 2&1/2" guns may well be as you stated too thin for rechambering. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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You can get .318 diameter bullets from Hawk. I have used Hawk bullets in 9,3x74R and 450/400 2 1/4" on deer, impala, and pigs with excellent results. www.hawkbullets.com DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I made a phone call to Germany last night. Spoke with one of my gunmaker friends there about rechambering from 65mm to 70mm, He said normally it is not a problem in break action guns. The problem he has found with doing this is that over there when a gun has this kind of modification it has to be reproofed and that adds a lot of extra expence, time, etc. Looks like you have a little vendication Mac but Alois did say on some British guns the barrels would be too thin to rechamber and possibly a rare German gun as well. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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I just shot an informal round of clay targets with the Sauer this evening. I took 22 shots and connected with 20, so I am quite happy and don't think I'll be searching for any different ammo for this gun. I was using Gamebore Traditional #6, 28 gram 65mm loads with fiber wads. Now to find some the S&B rifle loads... | |||
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Lets see, that is about one ounce of No6... Sounds like a perfect bird/small game load to me. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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The Gamebore #6 shot is about like our #7-7 1/2 shot, by the way. See if you can find some in size 5. They make it, and it corresponds with US #6 shot, but the dummies who import it don't seem to realize that...or care.   | |||
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I did it for 20+ years and found no down side. I used a 30 cal expander ball to hold the decapping pin in place. Sometimes I feel I wasted my $$ buying the J bore dies set.  | |||
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Just to see if a standard "S" resize die works, I sized a fired RWS 8x57JRS case in my RCBS 8x57 full length die without the expander plug. I used RCBS shell holder #26 for the rimmed case. Shell holder made full contact with the die. The resized shell casing without bullet is still too large to fully chamber in my Sauer. I can slide the case in but the lock lever will not close and the case protrudes about 2-3MM. Any thoughts why the case is not small enough to chamber? | |||
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Since the JR neck must size to a .318 bullet, would not a case neck-sized to a .323 bullet, prove overlarge for the chamber throat? | |||
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maybe, but then why the advise I have received previous? | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Longwalker: maybe, but then why the advise I have received previous?[/QUOTE Dunno......but why not try the JRS die with a 30 cal. (or better yet....a plug for a .303 British?) expander plug.....followed by attempt to insert the .318 bullet.....with adequate tightness to the inside rim of the neck?? If it works, problem is solved. I have a 8mm JR in a German BBF, and use JR dies, not JRS dies ....only because loading ammunition is an caution-demanding process. So, I don't fool around. | |||
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RST has lots of LOADED 16 gauge, 2 1/2" ammo, both paper and plastic. I bought two flats at the Southern Side by Side a month ago. A good source of empty hulls if necessary. Also, I discovered this morning that an RCBS #4 shellholder(.375 H&H headsize) fits the Norma 8 x 57 JR brass like it was made for it! | |||
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Well I solved a couple of mysteries... The 8x57JS dies do work fine for my cases. In the first test, I had removed the decap stem entirely. Fired cases that I resized proved to be too tight because the spent primer was protruding a tiny bit. When I removed the spent primers the cases fit very tight but I could close the gun with just a little extra "snap" - So that problem is solved. I found a dealer in Fairview Alberta, Bullseye Reloading Supplies. Bruno Gross sent me some DK custom .318 bullets in 175 and 200 grain. Case neck I.D. looks like .312". I seated one bullet in a resized case and neck tension is more than adequate. So I have everything I need to make the ol' girl sing again! Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. | |||
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conifer, you can contact Gamebore about their 16 ga. 2-1/2" ammo here: U.S.A. | (888) 311-Kent (5368) | KentWV@kentgamebore.com | |||
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Originally posted by Longwalker
Longwalker- If your cases or loaded ammo won't fit your chamber but the the .318 bullets fit tightly into the neck I belive your not getting a good resizing on the case. Test this by resizeing a case the same way you did to reload the problem cartridge. Try chambering the empty resized case in your gun. If it fits then you will know the problem is not with the case size. If the case still won't chamber that will tell a lot about whats going on. Conifer- Thanks for the heads up on the egun auction. I'm playing with some differant bullet weights to see if I can get a good regulation load for my 8x57jr double rifle. It looks like I have about 18 days to decide wether I'll need the RWS or not unless someone over there grabs them first. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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Longwalker Looks like you wee posting about your sucess at the same time I was. Good going, Have fun with the old girl and report back when you have some game on the ground with the 8x57JR. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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I recently located a box of 8x57JR RWS ammo, 196 grain. I put three shots over my Chrony and found it to be very accurate and consistent at an average velocity of 2510 fps, much higher than the 2310 fps that was listed on the box. Do any members here have chronograph experience with this ammo? Seems like very high velocity to me. I was trying to verify the velocity of factory loads in my rifle so I can work up handloads to match. But I don't think I want to go that fast because of potentially high pressure. Any comments? | |||
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anyone? | |||
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S&B http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/a...components-cases.php http://www.midwesthuntersoutle...1&w=PQ%2BJDyOLrQE%3D https://www.ammoalley.com/miva...ode=SELLBELLMETALLIC DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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I have chronograph data on Norma 8X57JR but not RWS. 196 Grain SP 2416 fps 2392 fps 2410 fps Very accurate as is my 196 grain Woodleigh ahead of 47.5 g of 4350. This is slightly warmer than the factory Norma by about 50 fps. JP Sauer Drilling "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain | |||
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I have owned several drillings in 8x57JR and every one of them shoots the S&B ammo very well. I currently shoot the S&B in my JP Sauer 12x12x8x57JR and it is very consistent. I do not hand load for this gun/caliber; don't find it necessary as it is a hunting gun, not a plinker and I don't burn up that much ammo, and the S&B does the job well. As for lengthening the shotgun chambers, definitely check with your gunsmith first. If it has enough steel for lengthening, I would do so. I would also open the chokes to Skt/IC. Opening the chokes will make it a great bird gun and will also make it safe for slugs. A drilling with 2 slugs and an 8x57 makes for one hellava big game gun. Mike JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Another alternative for bullets is to resize 170 grain .321 bullets to .318 using dies available from Lee and CH4D. The die is threaded 7/8X14 and costs about $25. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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I think you mean .321 to .318. | |||
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Yeah, .321 and .318". In my opinion $1.00 a round plus shipping is not cheap. I do think S&B 8X57JR is decent ammo, and I use it quite a bit, as I got 25 boxes for $11 per box a few years ago. Now that's cheap! I still like to reload and if bullets cost less than 15 cents each, it's still more economical. Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two | |||
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Most J bore drillings have .320 bores, and for 30 years I used 170gr 32 Special .321 bullets with great success in J bore guns. As a matter of fact I got good accuracy with the .321 170gr loads. Before the J bore ammo and bullets were readily available we used the die set up I mentioned above and the 32 special bullets as our only choice. I never had problem one with 25-30 J bore guns I shot this combination in. | |||
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