G'day, What would be the chances of starting a forum for users of combination guns? Drillings, BBFs, Vierlings, etc?
There are enough of us out here, perhaps it might be worthwhile to establish a forum to exchange ideas on problem solving, etc.
If necessary, I would be prepared to moderate it.

Cheers, Dave.

I love these guns and would welcome such a forum. I currently have a Browning-Miroku Mod. 7500 onn a Citori Type III action in .308-12 ga. and a Merkel drilling in 9.3x74R-12-12. I find these to be really useful guns for B.C. meat hunting and will flatly state that the Miroku is one of the finest, toughest guns of any make I have ever seen, used or owned.

Count me in! I have and enjoy some beautifully-made drillings and BBFs. BTW, has anyone got suggestions for more powerful handloads for 9.3x72R??
Alex

Count me in! Currently shoot a damascus sxs, 16ga and 40 x something-or-other, .395 bore, .408 groove. Fire formed cases measure almost exactly to that of the 40-40 Maynard. Why that was chambered in Belgium almost a hundred years ago is beyond me, but I digress.

Muffin

G'day, Conifer, is your 9.3x72R the sauer version? If so, Frank Barnes, in Cartridges of theWorld (9th edition), suggests that 38/55 win loading data is a viable place to start, as both cartridges were originally blackpowder, and both have similar capacities.
I would suggest that, if you choose that route, to reduce by at LEAST 20% and use a filler. work up slowly, and leave it when you have good accuracy and mild pressure signs.
As an example most rimmed versions of rimless cartridges (ie 7x57 Vs 7x57R) are 10-15% lower than the rimless loadings.
Hope this helps, let me know how you get on?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Dave:
THANKS very much!
Alex

I would add one small warning, if you reload for an older BP gun or rifle and use 4198 to replace BP, DO NOT USE the granulated type of fillers such as Cream of Wheat, GREX or whatever. Use only polyfiber such as in pillow stuffing as the granulated stuff can form a hard ball in your bore which can spike pressures and blow up your gun, this is not BS.

Thanks, but the BBF (though old) is nitro-proofed, and I WILL take it easy.
Alex

Kutenay, That's a BIG warning, not a small one!
And, indeed, my mistake. I believed that everyone knew not to use granulated type fillers, except as shot buffering in shotshell loads. I will not make that mistake again.
Conifer, I am sorry, I just assumed you would have known not to use a granulated filler. My apologies.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

G'day. So gentlemen, do you think it is worth giving a new forum on comboguns a shot? (no pun intended) I hope you do, it has potential to be a forum for an exchange of valuable info.

Cheers, Dave

In the absence of a forum on combination guns, let me ask it here:

Who makes an affordable 12 ga. x 12 ga. x 30-06 with 3" chambers on the 12 ga.?

Thanks.

What do you consider ...affordable... is the obvious question; you are looking at a drilling for the configuration you want. Probably Kreighoff will have what you desire at a "reasonable" tariff, any of the custom makers such as Fanzoj or Scheiring will be serious bucks. The cheapest drilling I know of is the "Ultra" model from Kreighoff.

I honestly don't see the point in the 3" chambers in this type of gun or the rimless .30-06, either. But, each to his own.

G'day, Actually Sauer make the least expensive drilling as described by 500gr. But you must special order the 3" chambers.
Personally I would never again trust a rimless extractor in a combo gun. Try, where possible, to stick with the rimmed cartridges. The nearest one I can think of to your 30-06 requirement would be the 7x65R. Similar energy levels. Possibley the 30R Blaser, if you can find anyone to chamber for it, apart from Blaser.

Cheers, Dave.

G'day again, 500gr if you needed just the energy levels of a 30/06, plus reasonable availability, you could try the 8x57RS.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Excellent idea re forum on combinations. Never see the more adventurous combinations around here (NZ) but occasional shotgun/rifle under/overs do appear at the range. Significant difficulties in legal use in state parks due to perception that the user is out to shoot protected birds (official paranoia). Bought a Tikka 222/12g (since stolen) about 25 years ago. First firearm I've had that would put 5 shots into near half an inch at 100 yds. First centrefire I'd had. I thought all rifles did that. That illusion was rapidly lost. Bought a second hand 222/12g Tikka recently. Seems to be accurate as well, but not quite so good. Still has the very nice trigger, sort of spongy but firm (!!).

G'day trepur. Yes those Tikkas are great pieces of kit, aren't they? I always regretted letting mine go years ago, but you know how it is when the kids need to eat and the work has dried up! Still, there is a fellow at the local deerstalking club selling one for his son, perhaps I will grab this one, if the price is right.

Cheers, Dave
Non Illegitium Carborundum

500grains, One can find WWII drillings issued to the Luftwaffe which were 12X12- 8X57JRS and Sauer made several sporting versions with the rifle barrel in 30-06. Last time I saw a used civilian model advertised it was selling for $2000 (ten or fifteen years ago) My brother has a very nice Sauer drilling. The shotgun barrels are 16 gauge, length 65mm (2-1/2") and the barrel is in 8X57JRS. These are fixed choke guns and not steel shot proofed.

Speaking of "quite the contrary" (YOU were, Wink)......and "France" (where you apparently are).....there is a WONDERFUL gun shop in Romorantin (Lechtine's) with a genius of a gunsmith (Pironin). They have fabulous doubles and combos, and the prices are decent. I bought a modest S/S 9.3x74R from them......but my mouth watered at the fancy stuff on their racks. The gunshops in Paris were a pretentious waste of time, but Lechtine is legit. OK....my 2 cents worth of stream-of-consciousness.......

Where is Romorantin? I´ll be going to visit me sister in France for Christmas, so some gunshops in between all that eating would not be a bad idea, quite the contrary, in fact

Boha

Wink, I had been lead to believe that the Luftwaffe drillings were 12, 12, 9.3x74R.
Dunno why, probably Goerings favourite caliber? Or, maybe there were more than one type made?
Anyone know any different?

Cheers, Dave
Non Illegitium Carborundum

I like the idea of this fourm. It isn't anything that I can probably affoard but I find drillings to be most interesting...Rusty.

Romorantin is just west (I believe) of Orleans.
If you e-mail me, I'll send you (next week, because I'm on the road right now) their address, phone number, and e-mail address.

All the Luftwaffe drillings I have seen have been 12x12x9,3x74R.
My wife has a Sauer drilling in 12x12x30-06. It is the perfect drilling for America as you can get ammo for it ANYWHERE.
I have shot the 30-06 bbl quite a bit with factory and reloads with out a single problem.

N E 450 No2, yes I know what you mean about the Sauer, there is a very nice one in the gunshop just down the road. 12/12/6.5x57R, just about right for the sort of hunting I do now. Of course, I would need to find $8,000 AUD to get it! Not likely to happen any time soon, but hey!
I expect I will get by with my blaser 95 BBF for a while yet.
What sort of groups does your wife get out of her 30-06 BBL?
I seem to get a bit under MOA out of the blaser, with factory Norma in the 7x57R. It has their free floating BBL system, which probably doesn't hurt.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

Sambar 9.3
I cannot call her drilling a tack driver in the normal sense.
I load 56 grains of IMR 4831 with a Nosler 180 Partition. I think this load is good for all game she would use the drilling on from deer to pigs to black bear etc.
The first shot hits dead on at 100 yards, shots 2 and 3 hit almost 3 inches higher.
Let it cool and it will repeat.
For her it has not been a problem, as every deer and pig she has killed with it has only taken one shot.

Sambar, excellent idea, and a hearty thanks to Saeed for this new forum!

Sambar:
I have one of those IZH O/U 12 ga./30-06 that I had reamed to 30 Gibbs....but as yet have not shot it. Have you (or anyone) any experience with these Russian BBF's??
Alex

G'day, the farmer who owns the place I do a lot of my deer hunting has one in 223/12g. It seems to work O.K. A bit agricultural though. No problems with extraction, but I cannot help but think the extractor is a bit on the flimsy side?
He is quite happy with it, it gets used mostly on his problem foxes, and to bag the occasional hare or duck for the pot. I even got him some of those 223Rem Win factory loads with the ?64gr pill and he got himself a Fallow doe (headshot) a few weeks back.
So while they are UGLY, I would have to say, the one I have seen work in the field, did O.K.
I would still try for one in a rimmed cal, though. Maybe that 7.62x54R? Or did they ever get made in 7x57R?
Perhaps try for a 308, and if you run into grief, have someone rework it to take the 307 case?

30 Gibbs? Now you are going to have to tell me what that is!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

N E 450 No2, sounds to me as though your wifes (!) drilling is just about perfect. The only conbogun I have which will group like a normal rifle is my Blaser 95BBF, probably due to their free floating BBL. All the others I know of or have owned have shifting points of impact due to the BBLs heating up at different rates.
As long as the first shot from a cold BBL goes where you aim it, thats about as good as it gets. And it usually does the job, for me anyway.
I alway pick my shots as I know I will probably only get the one. If that means passing up opportunities on critters, well so be it. Our freezer stays full, and I still manage to have a lot of fun anyway. It's the one gun I will always reach for when I'm not sure what it is I will be hunting that day.
I'll bet your wife does too, with her (!) drilling. I reckon they would have to be close to a universal hunters gun.
That load you mentioned sounds to be a good one, any problems with extraction?
Let's face it, 3" over 100yds, on a deer or bear? How big are they? Here in the deerstalkers club, there's a saying "minute of deer", I guess that works in the USA too?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

Sambar:
The late Rocky Gibbs of Viola, Idaho, USA invented a series of cases based on the 30-06. They involve blowing the shoulders forward with a shorter neck to increase case capacity. The 30 Gibbs offers a couple hundred fps greater velocity than the 30-06, while retaining 30 caliber.

Luftwaffendrilling M30

J.P. Sauer & Sohn Suhl (Suhl: pre-war, after the war they went to Eckernförde -- West-Germany):

Production: between April 1941 (# 334660) to September 1942 ( # 339755) round about 2000 Luftwaffendrillinge M30. They tested them not in Suhl but at Luftwaffenamt therefore stamped with an eagle.

The M30 Drilling was a "child" Herman Görings who was the head of the "Deutscher Luftsport-Verband (DLV)" and ordered the survival hunting Drilling for the Afrika corp.

I have only seen Luftwaffendrilling M30 in 12/12/9,3X74R. Case they came with were really nice. Hatari Times no: 13 has some more information about the Luftwaffendrilling.

Cheers
/JOHAN

Johan, s o your hatred of German gun inventions is brand specific?

I will keep that in mind.

Sambar9.3
I have not had ANY problem with extraction.
And you are right the 30-06 bbl shoots plenty good enough for hunting even if a follow up shot or 2 is necessary.
It is a great hunting gun.

In fact since my wife will not shoot anything but a big buck [ei, no "plinking" at ducks] for the first few trips to the deer lease, she is going to hunt woth a Blaser R 93 in 308 while I use Her drilling for my hunts at the Duck Pond.