quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Lane,
With all due respect to CP, what exactly does he say IS NOT transparent with the TZ lion aging process? Is it the fact that HE is not part of the assessment?

From what I know, IGF - who are the appointed age assessors on behalf of the Wildlife Division in TZ - are transparent and professional. Their results for 2011 have been submitted to the Director of Wildlife ages ago. CP wanted access to them which was denied. I don't see anyhting wrong with that? In his comments to the ESA he moans about being targeted by the "corrupt hunting fraternity"? No wonder with the public statements he makes against hunting!

If he is willing to support the ESA listing to simply "prove a point" that he can, then I question his sincerity in doing what's right for the lion.

Lane - And that there is the WHOLE POINT in a nutshell.

Craig "claims" non-transperancy, but simply because he's left out of the process - and you and I both know exactly why. He's irrational, he says "A" today, and "B" tomorrow. We both know how sensitive the "African" culture is, and trying to bully those in power will get you nowhere!

We both talked about this two nights ago, and it seems Packer is willing to "bite his nose, to spite his face". If proving he has more power than the TZ govt, or proving he can shout loudest from the mountain top, is more important than the "Wild Lion" itself, then I guess he wins!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
Packer did not submit the petition and has told me directly that he does not support a ban on lion hunting. That doesn't mean that he believes it should continue business as usual either.

The people that submitted this application are as follows; International Fund for Animal Welfare, the Humane Society of the United States, Humane Society International, the Born Free Foundation/Born Free USA, Defenders of Wildlife, and the Fund for Animals

These are all primarily anti-hunting organizations and only Born Free has any previous involvement with lions on any significant level. In fact only two have any international experience at all. My experience has been that "anti-hunters" don't really give a rats ass about the continued success of a species... they just truly do not want people shooting them for fun. Except for Born Free these organizations will provide zero funding for any wildlife conservation in Africa (or for the most part anywhere else). And for real world dollars (or Euros in this case) of Born Free's 3.5million euro budget they spend 500k on big cats. All big cats around the world, not just Panthera Leo. Someone help me here but I believe that would be about 10 hunting safaris.


"Trophy hunters kill animals for the purpose of obtaining a "prize"—from horns, to tusks, to the whole animal, stuffed—to take home and hang on a wall or pose in a living room. Despite its cruelty and harm to wildlife populations, many countries permit trophy hunting. Few monitor the activity accurately enough to understand its impact.

HSI is working to demonstrate to policy-makers the damage caused by trophy hunting and to encourage economic alternatives, such as ecotourism, which can employ more people and bring in more income without such a high cost to animals."


IMHO this really is it. The hunting industry had better take this seriously if we want to continue hunting lions. You know you can hunt cheetah and polar bear still right? You just can't bring back the trophy to the US either.

And anyone with a pragmatic view towards wild lion conservation needs to get involved. Because once this passes it will not be a simple thing to undo. And if it ever was the damage to lion populations and habitat will already be done.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
Not to defend him or promote him. But I have found Craig Packer a pretty easy guy to communicate with. I have emailed him a few times over the years regarding lion conservation and he has always responded. Often with long thoughtful emails and supporting documents. More depth then you might typically expect from someone receiving an email out of the blue.

You may not like him, agree with him, or what not. But you can't say he isn't willing to communicate and discuss the issues frankly.

John

quote:

Originally posted by The Artistry of Wildlife:
The amount of social media being used here and the amount of time being spent on liberal TV by Born Free with reporters is BIG. Here we go again. The uninformed public got the BS story from the Dems to re elact Osamma with them. Born Free is pushing this HARD and FAST. They know how to use the people and use the propoganda machine, the media, social, print and video. Personally don't think I'll be having to put LION on my price list for next year. Sad days. It's not so much a numbers game. It's Biorn Free starting a social outcry with misinformation that will end it. You can't fight a mob.