On the most recent TAA episode a large male lion was shot over bait. There were at least three female lions with him. Was this a pride male and what is correct action here. Lynn Taylor OF Chifuti Safaris was the PH.
Dont mean to flame anyone, I am just trying to decide how I would handle a similar situation.

465H&H

I had to correct this post as I inadvertantly called it a herd of lions instead of a pride of lions. My mistake. I had just answered a couple of posts on elephant and carried the herd over wrongly.

465H&H

I do not want to say that this IS the only correct course of action to take but this is what we should try to do IMO:
- determine if the pride has any dependant young or obviously pregnant/lactating females
- determine if it is a known male to us (one that we have observed several times in the past and can therefore determine the pride structure and history).
- last but not least, determine of he is 6+

All of the above is practically achievable over bait. Based on the above answers, the PH has to make the decision on whether or not to let the client take the cat.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
I do not want to say that this IS the only correct course of action to take but this is what we should try to do IMO:
- determine if the pride has any dependant young or obviously pregnant/lactating females
- determine if it is a known male to us (one that we have observed several times in the past and can therefore determine the pride structure and history).
- last but not least, determine of he is 6+

All of the above is practically achievable over bait. Based on the above answers, the PH has to make the decision on whether or not to let the client take the cat.

And there you have your answer! Doesn't mean the lion can't be shot, just means some due-dilligence is required.

Thanks guys. That is what I was looking for. It sure would be hard for anyone to pass on that old, huge, well maned lion. I guess a very conscientious PH wouldn't even bait where such a lion is living. No sense in putting the client in such a dilemma.

465H&H

Walt,
Later today or early next week...I will start a thread titled as the "Definition of a Huntable Male Lion".

It will be the LCTF's definition but if and when I post it...it will have the endorsement of the major scientists, some key Safari Industry leaders, and hopefully SCI & DSC.

One thing to remember on these TV shows is that a 21 - 28 day hunt is condensed into how many minutes of actual hunting footage minus commercials? You can't tell from the show if that Lion was observed for multiple days etc. to decide it's viability as a mature non-pride holding target.

I have not even ssen the show yet...but Jim makes a valid point!

Apparently this relates to Carl's Lion. And also apparently 465H&H is unable to discriminate between stock footage and actual footage from the hunt/Lion in question. I was there and can assure you footage not taken during our hunt was inserted for the TV show. That includes not only female but also male Lion footage. Perhaps Dave Fulton will confirm this if he is around. I consider this to be an insulting question that would not have been asked by anyone paying attention to the actual footage presented during the show.

And the PH is Len Taylor and I can say with confidence from personal experience dealing with a corrupt game ranger during our hunt, that he is a man of high ethical standards.

This Lion is an old warrior whose father and brother were also known. We did our due diligence. He was NOT holding a pride. It just seems so obvious to me from the video that there should not even be a question as to this Lions age, but perhaps I'm being overly sensitive?

Lionjunter,

The age of the lion wasn't in question at least not by me. Was the lion shown being shot,the one your friend took. I saw nothing to indicate that it was stock footage. The lion shown being shot had a lioness in front of it and it ran past two more as went off to die. Are you saying that that footage was not from your friends hunt?

465H&H

There is one lioness and no cub in the footage of Carl's Lion. This is also what we observed and recorded on the game cam at night. Some of the game cam footage on the show was stock and not his Lion nor the bait tree we used. I have never heard a single male and single female referred to as a pride.

It is not my place to give instructions on how video is edited, cut and spliced for a finished DVD or TV show, but rest assured everything you see on TAA (or any TV show) is not necessarily sequential and anytime there is a cutaway, time passes and things, including animals and people, move positions. Perhaps this accounts for what you think you saw?

I do think the title you chose for your OP and the way you asked your questions were in poor taste and your follow-up questions only demonstrate your lack of understanding of how film is put together and your inability to process what you are watching. But I think none of this makes any difference to you and that you are only interested in engaging in a pissing contest like the one you started with Michael458 regarding the CEB bullets. Consequently I am done with you and will not engage you further.

Guys,

This is a good example of what does NOT need to happen.

465 H&H asked a valid question and a simple answer with civil discussion IS WHAT WE NEED.

Both of you guys are important contributors.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
On the most recent TAA episode a large male lion was shot over bait. There were at least three female lions with him. Was this a pride male and what is correct action here. Lynn Taylor OF Chifuti Safaris was the PH.
Dont mean to flame anyone, I am just trying to decide how I would handle a similar situation.

465H&H

465,

I just watched the film. I am unsure how you got 3 lioness. I only saw one most likely non-pregnant female with the male. Even in the game camera pics...I could never say there was more than one female.

Lane,

When I watched it the first time I was on the phone and distracted. I also didn't record the show to review. I thought that the lioness walked behind the tree and the male then came out. Apparently there was more of a time lapse than shown and the lioness moved back in the direction she came from. So I thought that she was a second lioness. In reviewing the tape today, it was obvious that there was only one lioness in view as the shot lion ran past. I appologise to one and all for my faulty observation and memory.

465H&H

Thanks 465 for coming on and setting the record straight.

I count both of you as friends...even though I think you are missing the boat on bullets 465 .