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A Hunter's Guide To Aging Lions In Eastern And Southern Africa, bh: Karyl L. Whitman
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Posts: 54320 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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That is a very interesting document. I have no idea how a PH, in the field, and without a known lion to compare, tells the difference between a 4yo and older lions with any degree of certainty.
 
Posts: 6979 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Baxter,

You are right in that it is not easy at all. From my experience, it only comes with "practice". Every lion shot needs to be carefully analyzed and compared with known age lions. The skull examination, tooth wear and pre-molar x-ray are going to tell you, albeit post mortem, in what "age group" the lion belongs to. Thereafter, you go back and review the indicators from pictures (no pictures and it becomes hopeless!) and see where you were right or wrong and then try to adapt to these next time around. In the process, you will shoot a few borderline or 5 and under so during this "learning phase" it is advisable to practice strict caution. If in doubt, don't shoot. It takes restraint and a lot of self discipline to do this. It get's easier once a lion is 7/8+ yo so the best would be to hold out till you find one of these. Expect success rates under 20% for the first few years.


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
 
Posts: 3008 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Bwanamich:
If in doubt, don't shoot. It takes restraint and a lot of self discipline to do this. It get's easier once a lion is 7/8+ yo so the best would be to hold out till you find one of these. Expect success rates under 20% for the first few years.

Can this be sold to the average hunter that is looking to book a Lion hunt?
Some company's offer buffalo hunt daily rates but very high trophy fees. This should work to everyone's benefit??
 
Posts: 5878 | Location: Sydney,Australia  | Registered: 03 July 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It would require a mentality change to the way hunters expectations are. When we got serious with this issue, we had the whole huntng world against us and got dropped by practically all the agents we worked with - including being dragged through the mud - because we were not garanteeing 100% success rates! I do realize we are fortunate in our position and were able to "ride it out".


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
 
Posts: 3008 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bwanamich,
who is "we"?
 
Posts: 4958 | Registered: 30 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
Bwanamich,
who is "we"?


Tanzania Game Tracker Safaris

Brett


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Posts: 4542 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 21 February 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank You.
 
Posts: 4958 | Registered: 30 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Tanzania Game Tracker Safaris



quote:
Tourist hunting in Tanzania has developed over a long period and is a principle source
of income for vast areas of the country. The industry has demonstrated an impressive
growth in recent years and is an important source of foreign exchange to Tanzania but
little information is available on the industry. The Wildlife Division of the Ministry of
Natural Resources and Tourism has developed a command system of control that
favours a select group of hunting outfitters with reduced income generation and the
exclusion of rural communities who are the legitimate holders of the land upon which
hunting takes places. Concessions are leased at fixed rates far below the market value,
and many to companies without the necessary marketing capacity. A system of
subleasing mostly to foreigners has thus developed. Low rates are achieved and much of
the hunting income that is generated never enters Tanzania and cannot be taxed.




Able to ride it out because of the above perhaps?
 
Posts: 509 | Registered: 07 October 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jolouburn,
Pls continue your research before you come to conclusions. I suggest you start with a google search on The Friedkin Conservation Fund to find out more anout TGTS

That article was written by a disgruntled expat who has absolutely NO personal experience as a PH or Outfitter in TZ and was purely born out of frustration for not being given access to all the stats and info he wanted by the authorities. His aim was to prove how poorly run and corrupt the Wildlife Division is/was so what do you expect Wink

A recent study (2007) by V. Booth indicated that an average of 70% of revenue generated by the hunting sector in Tz remains in the country and within the local economy. This is certainly true for us where 100% of our revenue is banked locally!

As to the claim that the concession rates are set far below market value, this is absolute rubbish in practical terms and a value chain analysis proved this. With the new allocation 2013-2018 showed that the Market Value is far below in certain concessions to what has been set!


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
 
Posts: 3008 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you, i'll look into this further.
 
Posts: 509 | Registered: 07 October 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jo - Although Bwanamich might dis-agree with me, this "guide" is hugely mis-leading and in-accurate in its title. It should be called "A guide to aging lions of northern Tanzania", and nothing more. To claim this guide can/should be used to accurately age lions all across eastern/southern Africa is simply foolish.

Despite my personal experience all across eastern/southern Africa I use to dispute the claim, just think about it for a minute, then ask yourself it it sounds plausible?


Aaron Neilson
Global Hunting Resources
303-619-2872: Cell
globalhunts@aol.com
www.huntghr.com

 
Posts: 4848 | Location: Boise, Idaho | Registered: 05 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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see page 38 of Guide...Hwange was included in the study for the guide.


____________

Lane

Progressives don’t just have disdain for Conservatives...they loathe the very ground they walk on.
 
Posts: 27898 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As well as Kruger and Phinda GR in SA.... page 39 and 40 respectively.

I know your point Aaron and do agree to some degree with the principle of your argument. However, the guide only highlights the general indicators of age and these do apply, in general terms, to populations across the range states. Eg, mane grows fuller with age, teeth wear out with age, pulp cavity narrows with age, etc, etc.


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
 
Posts: 3008 | Location: Tanzania - The Land of Plenty | Registered: 19 September 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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