Have you made a decision on your rifles?

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Have you made a decision on your rifles?

LHeym500,

Well, brother, assuming I can actually buy and take delivery of the rifles, I have to say you have brought me over to your way of thinking; i.e., that there ain't much difference between .338 Win. Mag. and another .300 Magnum, such as the .300 H&H I'm already committed to buying (I think I owe $600 more on the Pre-64 M-70 .300 H&H, but can't get into the store to collect it because of the COVID-19 situation).

Honestly, I think I want the Alaskan in .375 H&H. I've never fired a .416, so don't know how well I would shoot, but going to borrow a friend's .378 and see if I can tolerate the recoil and still hit something.

Thoughts?

the 378 is a rip snorter. the 416 will probably be less to handel'

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Bell:

brought me over to your way of thinking; i.e., that there ain't much difference between .338 Win. Mag. and another .300 Magnum, such as the .300 H&H

Thoughts?

I do like the 300's - but I really like the .338WinMag.......for me, if I could have just a .300 or the .338.........I would lean hard to the .338 side. It kills from any angle with authority!

The 378 WBY has the more muzzle energy, velocity, and recoil than the 416 Remington. It is going to be loud and mean.

Some love it. I have a 416 Remington on a Kimber Caprivi. More recoil than my 375 Ruger.

The Caprivi is a prettier looking Winchester Safari. The actions look, but are not the same.

The Winchester Safari Express is a good house for the 416.

If you are going to hunt a lot of buffalo, then I would say go with the 416. If you are going to hunt a lot of elk, bear, nilgi and pigs when you move to Texas. My vote goes to the 375.

Of course, some feel about the 375 and 416 as I do comparing the 300 magnums to the 338 cartridges.

If you can shoot a 338 WM. The 375 HH will fit your holster.

Even my Democrat Governor who was one of the first to lockdown and locked down the most left gun sales alone. Is the background check system shutdown in your state? Some stars have done that. If the background checking system is still running, one could have the FFL selling the 300 HH ship the rifle to an FFL you are close with to do the background check and transfer in a non-commercial setting. As long as he logs it in, out, and can do the check the transfer can happen in his kitchen while you wait outside the door keeping the 6 foot rule.

Just thinking out loud.

The 300 HH is the only magnum 308 I would own and in a Pre-64 perfect. This statement is made because the history of that cartridge and rifle. If not for Winchester and Western, the 300 HH would be like the rest of Holland and Holland’s cartridges footnotes in a book.

In summary, I would pair the 300 HH or 300 WM or 300 WBY with a 375 HH, 375 Ruger, or 375 WBY(not the same cartridge as the 378 Wby. The 375 Wby is sensible). I would pair a 338 magnum with a 416 Remington, Ruger, Taylor, Rigby.

I would not shoot a 378 WBY unless it was braked and weighed over 9 pounds. Please, wear double ear protection being plugs and muffs.

The 378 WBy is at max pressure on a modified, huge 416 Rigby case. The 378 WBY has none of the grace and less of the subtlety of the 375 caliber and 416 Rigby case it breeds together.

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Bell:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Have you made a decision on your rifles?

LHeym500,

Well, brother, assuming I can actually buy and take delivery of the rifles, I have to say you have brought me over to your way of thinking; i.e., that there ain't much difference between .338 Win. Mag. and another .300 Magnum, such as the .300 H&H I'm already committed to buying (I think I owe $600 more on the Pre-64 M-70 .300 H&H, but can't get into the store to collect it because of the COVID-19 situation).

Honestly, I think I want the Alaskan in .375 H&H. I've never fired a .416, so don't know how well I would shoot, but going to borrow a friend's .378 and see if I can tolerate the recoil and still hit something.

Thoughts?

The .378 is the only rifle I refused to shoot a second time that I have tried.

Its sharp and fast like a fast .300, but has authority as well.

If you can tolerate it, you can tolerate anything, IMO.

[QUOTE]Even my Democrat Governor who was one of the first to lockdown and locked down the most left gun sales alone. Is the background check system shutdown in your state? Some stars have done that. If the background checking system is still running, one could have the FFL selling the 300 HH ship the rifle to an FFL you are close with to do the background check and transfer in a non-commercial setting. As long as he logs it in, out, and can do the check the transfer can happen in his kitchen while you wait outside the door keeping the 6 foot rule.

Just thinking out loud./QUOTE]

Now THAT'S out of the box thinking, amigo! Thanks to you, I have hatched a plan (Assuming they'll roll with it and in this small business-wrecking economy we have, I think they will).

Man, once again, I just appreciate all the feedback from all you wonderful guys!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Bell:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Have you made a decision on your rifles?

LHeym500,

Well, brother, assuming I can actually buy and take delivery of the rifles, I have to say you have brought me over to your way of thinking; i.e., that there ain't much difference between .338 Win. Mag. and another .300 Magnum, such as the .300 H&H I'm already committed to buying (I think I owe $600 more on the Pre-64 M-70 .300 H&H, but can't get into the store to collect it because of the COVID-19 situation).

Honestly, I think I want the Alaskan in .375 H&H. I've never fired a .416, so don't know how well I would shoot, but going to borrow a friend's .378 and see if I can tolerate the recoil and still hit something.

Thoughts?

The .378 is the only rifle I refused to shoot a second time that I have tried.

Its sharp and fast like a fast .300, but has authority as well.

If you can tolerate it, you can tolerate anything, IMO.

If I had trouble with an un-braked 300 Weatherby and all I've been shooting for the past 20 years has been tactical stuff in 5.56 and 7.62 (with the occasional .338 LM and .50 BMG with big ol' muzzle brakes), I think I may not even bother with the .378 - unless I just want to crank one off as a bucket list experience, LOL!

Thanks, brother.

I hope you are able to pick up your .300 H&H for a decent price and soon!

I had a 1959 Winchester 70 in .300H&H in 2011. Paid $400 for it. I should have kept it. My friend received it as payment for some work he had done for a gentleman and he mainly shot targets and didn't hunt. After the Sandy Hook Massacre when everyone went wild on buying/selling guns I had someone approach me in Ft Worth wanting to give me $1600 cash. I took it. I was shooting HSM ammo through it and it was a 2moa rifle. But was beautiful and felt good in your hands.

That's the problem with doing lots of wheelin' & dealin'...eventually you wish you had a few of them back

Some science RE the talk about the 378 Wby. Many look at various calibers' bore size, and might guess recoil from that. But there are two components to recoil (given the same stock design of course):
Recoil Energy. The number we all focus on.
Recoil Velocity; The one we forget, and the one that makes the 378 a killer on both ends. Elmer said that, not me. It's how fast that energy is transmitted to your shoulder that matters too.

The crux of pr-64 M70's with respect to accuracy is that the youngest of them have had 56 years of unknows acting on the bore. That being said, unless the rifle your interested in is a verifiable disaster, don't let that scare you away from the rifle of interest. Most of the pre-64's in my collection are about 1 inch rifles after developing a hand load that the rifle favors and if I do my part pulling the trigger.

Currently I'm down to one .300 H&H, a transition era M70 that dates to 1947 and has a well earned patina. That's what I tell myself.



When I got the rifle it was promptly sent to Mark Penrod to have the rear bridge rectified and apply his deft touch to the trigger&safety system. The rear bridge had suffered on someones kitchen table as it had three holes that aligned anywhere other than in line with the bore. Thankfully the trigger didn't have evidence of being molested. It has served well over the last decade and a half and will always be in the rotation.

This rifle is no exception to the 1" statement above. For most of its career with me IMR 4831 has been it's powder of choice with 200 gr. Partitions. I had been experimenting with Rl23 in a number of rifles since it came out and last year started working with that powder in this rifle. It has performed quite well in this rifle, again with 200 gr. partitions. That bullet has been my go to bullet in various 30 calibers for the past ~25 years. It flat works and in my experience shoots well in most rifles. In the 300 H&H you can expect 2,850 - 2,900 fps with that bullet and an appropriate powder choice.

.375 H&H M70 Alaskan Stainless-Laminate.
I wonder what that one sold for ?
Winchester made only one run of those in 2012, IIRC.
Collector's item.
My 1958 vintage M70 .300 H&H got turned into a .395 H&H with a stainless 23" McGowen barrel and a "Brown Pounder" stock.
Really rare that one, probably the only one in the world.

Rip ...

Let me say up front, I am a Model 70 guy. Having made that clear, those old Model 721 Remingtons were as a group, outstanding, generally more accurate than Model 70's.

Adam,

Personally, I think you’d enjoy the 300h&h best. Of course there are better cartridges etc but to me it’s a grand old number.

And I would get the pre64, yeah true it might not be the best out of the box but some of the reasons I enjoyed are that it was a product that to me symbolizes what was great about America (much like Weatherby). And the Pre64 is an excellent platform for a custom.

We fortunate here in SA that second hand pre64s are far cheaper that a new model 70. Always nice to have a few sitting around the safe for that special custom and boy do they make great customs whilst cutting costs in major areas ( safety, feeding etc)

quote:

Originally posted by DavidReed:
The crux of pr-64 M70's with respect to accuracy is that the youngest of them have had 56 years of unknows acting on the bore. That being said, unless the rifle your interested in is a verifiable disaster, don't let that scare you away from the rifle of interest. Most of the pre-64's in my collection are about 1 inch rifles after developing a hand load that the rifle favors and if I do my part pulling the trigger.

Currently I'm down to one .300 H&H, a transition era M70 that dates to 1947 and has a well earned patina. That's what I tell myself.



When I got the rifle it was promptly sent to Mark Penrod to have the rear bridge rectified and apply his deft touch to the trigger&safety system. The rear bridge had suffered on someones kitchen table as it had three holes that aligned anywhere other than in line with the bore. Thankfully the trigger didn't have evidence of being molested. It has served well over the last decade and a half and will always be in the rotation.

This rifle is no exception to the 1" statement above. For most of its career with me IMR 4831 has been it's powder of choice with 200 gr. Partitions. I had been experimenting with Rl23 in a number of rifles since it came out and last year started working with that powder in this rifle. It has performed quite well in this rifle, again with 200 gr. partitions. That bullet has been my go to bullet in various 30 calibers for the past ~25 years. It flat works and in my experience shoots well in most rifles. In the 300 H&H you can expect 2,850 - 2,900 fps with that bullet and an appropriate powder choice.

DavidReed,

That wonderful, well-earned patina is the charm of that rifle: that and the memories you associate with it. I LOVE that picture! By the way, Mark Penrod did some beautiful shaping on an ‘09 Argentine for me. That man is a perfectionist in the D’Arcy Echols sense. Can’t go wrong there! In fact, I was living in Denver at the time, of memory serves.

You and the other knowledgeable folk on this site have convinced me that the 200 grainer is THE way to go and I can’t wait to start throwing them down range. Brother Lowe on this site shared some pages from a reloading manual with me and I’m stoked. That pretty much means I’m committed to reloading now because it seems with one or two sold-out-with-no-plans-to-reorder exceptions, everything factory is pretty much 180 grains now. That’s fine - all I needed was a good excuse.

But you hit it on the head with the combination of performance, nostalgia and romance all wrapped up in one (not to mention a century of awesome).

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I have two:

-Winchester 1885 High-Wall
-Winchester Pre-64 M70

I have taken white tails with the single shot, but have yet to shoot the M70. It was recently acquired and this damn virus has kept me from burning powder.

I bought a number of boxes of the Federal Premium 180gr. Trophy Bonded Tip. The load seemed to work well on the deer. My “Gun Jockey” gave me some light (maybe 150gr. or so) handloads. These came with the M70, so I haven’t shot them yet.

It’s a beautiful round. I have others I really like, but can’t wait to give the M70 a go.

Phil Massaro has written plenty on the .300 H&H. I believe he’s pretty impartial, unlike other writers, as it’s not like there are many new guns in the caliber that need the “love” in the gun rags.

Marcus, you've got a Hi-Wall in .300 H&H? Sweet! Never knew they made one. Is it custom?

And yeah, I hear you. This COVID thing is killing' me!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

.375 H&H M70 Alaskan Stainless-Laminate.
I wonder what that one sold for ?
Winchester made only one run of those in 2012, IIRC.
Collector's item.
My 1958 vintage M70 .300 H&H got turned into a .395 H&H with a stainless 23" McGowen barrel and a "Brown Pounder" stock.
Really rare that one, probably the only one in the world.

Rip ...

RIP, That M-70 in stainless with laminate stock is my current holy grail! I have searched to find one and haven't been able to. Last one on gunsinternational.com sold pretty quick it looks like.

By the way, I read one of your threads - this one regarding the 458 Win Mag. Good God, man - you're your own encyclopedia! Normally I can hang but you went right over my head on some of the technical discussions - it's awesome to read about what's possible, though!

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Bell:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

.375 H&H M70 Alaskan Stainless-Laminate.
I wonder what that one sold for ?
Winchester made only one run of those in 2012, IIRC.
Collector's item.
My 1958 vintage M70 .300 H&H got turned into a .395 H&H with a stainless 23" McGowen barrel and a "Brown Pounder" stock.
Really rare that one, probably the only one in the world.

Rip ...

RIP, That M-70 in stainless with laminate stock is my current holy grail! I have searched to find one and haven't been able to. Last one on gunsinternational.com sold pretty quick it looks like.

By the way, I read one of your threads - this one regarding the 458 Win Mag. Good God, man - you're your own encyclopedia! Normally I can hang but you went right over my head on some of the technical discussions - it's awesome to read about what's possible, though!

Guys: I have the listing from when my father in law bought his 375 HH SS Alsakan off gunbroker about 2 years ago.

If you want to see it and the asking price, not extreme, pm an email address. There is no confidential info on the listing so someone could post it.

SS barrels and SA USEA/Winchester Classic are available. The problem is I can’t find a laminated stock like this to get one.

I have a similar Ruger African with SS 23 inch barrel, SS action, and trim laminated stock in 375 Ruger. It was about half the price my father in law paid for the SS Alaskan.

I shot the 300 H&H pre war Win. mod 70 for years, shot everything including a couple of Cape buffalo with it..I used 200 gr. Nosler partition loaded to the gills, and it killed as well as anything I ever used..

I sold that ole dog worn out gun to a AR member whom I don't recall, wish I had it back, it was the first custom stock I ever made and I used that stock on more than a few rifles over the years...I would bet today it still shoots under and inch with any weight bullet and all to the same POI..and never worry, its a plenty strong action for most any caliber...

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Bell:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I have two:

-Winchester 1885 High-Wall
-Winchester Pre-64 M70

I have taken white tails with the single shot, but have yet to shoot the M70. It was recently acquired and this damn virus has kept me from burning powder.

I bought a number of boxes of the Federal Premium 180gr. Trophy Bonded Tip. The load seemed to work well on the deer. My “Gun Jockey” gave me some light (maybe 150gr. or so) handloads. These came with the M70, so I haven’t shot them yet.

It’s a beautiful round. I have others I really like, but can’t wait to give the M70 a go.

Phil Massaro has written plenty on the .300 H&H. I believe he’s pretty impartial, unlike other writers, as it’s not like there are many new guns in the caliber that need the “love” in the gun rags.

Marcus, you've got a Hi-Wall in .300 H&H? Sweet! Never knew they made one. Is it custom?

And yeah, I hear you. This COVID thing is killing' me!

The Hi Wall was a special run by CDNN with maybe a 28” octagonal barrel. I bought it about 8 years ago.

I did fire off the M70 last weekend. The recoil wasn’t too bad, but that has rarely affected me. I wasn’t sure what to expect because the factory pad is hardened rubber. The Hi Wall isn’t bad because it’s super heavy.

Ive hunted with both the 300 H&H, 300 Win mag, 300 Wby and 30-338...Couldn't see much if any difference in them on game..My favorite for no good reason was the 300 H&H with a 180 or 200 gr. bullet, mostly partitions and accubonds later on..Goes back many years.

As to the 300 H&H having a push rather than a slap, is old hat and BS..lighten up a 300 H&K and the push turns to a slap..that applies to most all such dribble...I always felt the 300 H&H in pre 64 was my favorite, but wouldn't want to take that case to court, the judge would toss it out for lack of evidence..also gimme a control feed everytime...

A 375 H&H or Ruger is all the rifle one needs for all the DG in the world if one can shoot..

A 338 is the best PG caliber if your hunting PG in dangerous game country wherein you might accidently run into something hungry, sick or wounded..

Otherwise the 30-06 would be my choice like in most of So. Africa and some of Zim and Namibia.
Even so the PH is their to protect you..

I have two, a 300 and a 375, all original that I would sell as a pair if anyone is interested email me at Jkob60@msn.com

I took three of my four entries in Rowland Ward's Records of Big game with my Model 70 .300 H&H. I also took this gerenuk in Kenya in 1971.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
I took three of my four entries in Rowland Ward's Records of Big game with my Model 70 .300 H&H. I also took this gerenuk in Kenya in 1971.

Hope you were 14 when you were in Kenya....
Or you are old guy like me...

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Hope you were 14 when you were in Kenya....
Or you are old guy like me...

Actually, I was 32 and still wearing my USMC boondockers.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Some science RE the talk about the 378 Wby. Many look at various calibers' bore size, and might guess recoil from that. But there are two components to recoil (given the same stock design of course):
Recoil Energy. The number we all focus on.
Recoil Velocity; The one we forget, and the one that makes the 378 a killer on both ends. Elmer said that, not me. It's how fast that energy is transmitted to your shoulder that matters too.

Everything I've heard about the 378 Weatherby is the recoil is insane. Art Alphin, of 500 A2 fame, shot one once and said he would never do so again.

Two things I will add.

Number one, I am a pre 64 Win 70 fan and think a pre 64 Win 70 in 375 H&H is the perfect safari rifle.

Number two, the issue of the 378 Wby being wicked. All indications are just that! I was at a gun show this one time and there was a guy trying to sell a dealer an absolutely minty Weatherby Mark V in 460 Wby Mag with a box of ammo with 3 fired in it. The dealer asked the guy if all he could handle was 3. The guy replied that he was the third owner! LOL! I think the 378 is up there with that.

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
Two things I will add.

Number one, I am a pre 64 Win 70 fan and think a pre 64 Win 70 in 375 H&H is the perfect safari rifle.

Number two, the issue of the 378 Wby being wicked. All indications are just that! I was at a gun show this one time and there was a guy trying to sell a dealer an absolutely minty Weatherby Mark V in 460 Wby Mag with a box of ammo with 3 fired in it. The dealer asked the guy if all he could handle was 3. The guy replied that he was the third owner! LOL! I think the 378 is up there with that.

I had the same thing happen to me with an owner of a 30x378.. he gave me a box of shells with
only 19 in it. I asked why one was missing...
"It's the only one I shot" he said, "then sold the gun and forgot to give the buyer the ammo".

Personally, I will not shoot anything bigger than a 300 Wby. The 30x378 is one of the worst I've ever tried.

There is an interesting article in the June/July, 2020 American Rifleman concerning the .300 H&H Magnum rifle that Ben Comfort used to win the 1,000 yard Wimbledon Cup Match at Camp Perry in 1935. In those days, there was no other .30 caliber magnum, so the H&H was simply referred to here in the USA as the ".300 Magnum."

Comfort's rifle was made by Griffin & Howe on a Remington 30-S Express action (a commercial version of the military M1917 Enfield), converted to single shot. It had a 30 inch bull barrel.

Elmer Keith, who had guided Comfort on a big game hunt a couple of years before the match, suggested just such a rifle to him.

Keith noted in later writings, "After [Comfort won the Wimbledon Cup], it was a long time before the cup was won with anything but the .300 Magnum."

In a grand gesture, the rifle was offered for sale by the AR article's writer, Dwight Van Brunt, to Ben Comfort's grandson, who eagerly and gladly bought it. It is now back with the Comfort family, where it belongs.

I sold a 460 Wby for George Hoffman, just prior to his death, he was a good friend, and sorely missed..He sent me some ammo and said shoot it up, you'll like this gun...It certainly had some recoil but Ive never known recoil to kill anyone, but after a session at the bench I thought maybe I was going to be the first, took some aspirin and continued off hand shooting and it wasn't that bad off the hind legs..I couldn't do that today..

I wouldn't swear to it but Im pretty sure I sold that gun on AR about 10 or 15 years ago..