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Speer bullets from 35 whelen
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Just returned from Africa where we used the 35 Whelen to shoot 2 zebra and about 8 impala. All were taken with the 250 grain speer hot cor at about 2450 fps. The first zebra was shot a little high in the shoulder. The bullet exited and it went about 60 yards where we found it dead, not too much of a blood trail but it may have bled internally. The second zebra was a raking angle shot as it was facing away. Quite a good blood trail it went about 100 yards and was found dead. Unfortunately we didn't find the bullet, but it did not exit. It must have penetrated a good 2.5 to 3 feet to get to the vitals in the chest as the entry was in front of the rear leg angling forward.

Zebra are tough animals and we shot another 5 with the 416 rigby and 375 ruger, frankly they went as far with those bigger rounds when shot with similar shots.

With the impala there wasn't much of a big exit hole. When shot well they dropped where they stood. Overall my take is that it the Speer hot core is a good bullet when used at these velocities in the Whelen. If you use a big enough caliber for the game and right bullet wt. plain ole bullets are just fine I guess!

AR
 
Posts: 2531 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Been using Speer 250 grain bullets in my Whelen for over 40 years. Deer, elk, bear out to 300 yards -- never had a problem with bullet performance.

In the early days, however, Speer 250s would weigh out with as much difference as + - 4/10 of a grain, so I used to have to weigh and sort to get best accuracy. Not so much anymore as their quality control must have improved.

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Posts: 33 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: 09 June 2015Reply With Quote
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Thank you for the information on the Speers and the 35 Whelen.

Have you ever used the Double Tap ammo with the 250s @ 2600 fps? I'm curious how that bullet (Speer, I believe) behaves at that velocity.

Congrats on your safari. 35 Whelen...good choice! Wink
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 26 May 2010Reply With Quote
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reddy375,
It sounds like you had great success with your 35 Whelen! It's a hard hitter.


I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever.
Take care.
smallfry
 
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001Reply With Quote
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I have had great results with the 250 gr Speer on Moose and Bear. 2400 to 2500 FPS. Usually have an exit.


kk alaska
 
Posts: 950 | Registered: 06 February 2003Reply With Quote
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I really wonder if that load is doing 2600 out of a regular rifle. From what I understand that vel is also pretty high for a whelen! I also wanted to load it below 2500 fps otherwise I may as well be using my 375 H&H!

quote:
Originally posted by surefire7:
Thank you for the information on the Speers and the 35 Whelen.

Have you ever used the Double Tap ammo with the 250s @ 2600 fps? I'm curious how that bullet (Speer, I believe) behaves at that velocity.

Congrats on your safari. 35 Whelen...good choice! Wink
 
Posts: 2531 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Another example of how bullet placement is the critical component of clean kills.
 
Posts: 3720 | Registered: 03 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Apparantly they have toughened up that bullet at some point..I shot about half a dozen whitetail with it in a 358 Win. savage mod. 99 and every bullet blew up inside..It killed fine but even a 300 yard shot in the white patch of the neck blew a soft ball size hole and did not penetrate the thin neck of a 140 lb. whitetail buck. I don't doubt the posts just adding my experience from the late 1960s...I assumed then the bullets were ment for the 35 Remington thus the over expansion..??? They were Speer boat tail soft points.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by reddy375:
I really wonder if that load is doing 2600 out of a regular rifle. From what I understand that vel is also pretty high for a whelen! I also wanted to load it below 2500 fps otherwise I may as well be using my 375 H&H!

quote:
Originally posted by surefire7:
Thank you for the information on the Speers and the 35 Whelen.

Have you ever used the Double Tap ammo with the 250s @ 2600 fps? I'm curious how that bullet (Speer, I believe) behaves at that velocity.

Congrats on your safari. 35 Whelen...good choice! Wink


The Double Tap box says 250gr. Soft Point @2600fps from a 24" barrel.

All barrels are different of course, so who knows? I have not chronographed it.

Many others here on AR have stated that they can get 2600fps with a 250 grainer in the Whelen and even higher, without undue pressure signs. I'd like to hear from someone who does get 2600 with that bullet (DoubleTap-Speer?) and has used it on game.

The 375 H&H is a better round than the 35 Whelen for sure. But my rifles in that caliber are longer and heavier than my 35 Whelen. That's why I like the Whelen. However, my 375 Ruger in the African model weighs 7 3/4 lbs, is the same length cartridge as the Whelen, has a 23" barrel, and fires the 300 gr. bullet @ 2660fps. That beats the Whelen from a rifle the same as my Whelens. Makes me think a lot. However, the recoil is much less in my Whelen, and for deer, elk, moose, bear, plains game, etc., I don't need a 375. So, I'm back to my Whelen. Decisions, decisions. It's all fun! Smiler
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 26 May 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Apparantly they have toughened up that bullet at some point..I shot about half a dozen whitetail with it in a 358 Win. savage mod. 99 and every bullet blew up inside..It killed fine but even a 300 yard shot in the white patch of the neck blew a soft ball size hole and did not penetrate the thin neck of a 140 lb. whitetail buck. I don't doubt the posts just adding my experience from the late 1960s...I assumed then the bullets were ment for the 35 Remington thus the over expansion..??? They were Speer boat tail soft points.


Ray, thanks for your input on the old Speer bullets. Any experience with this Double Tap ammo?
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 26 May 2010Reply With Quote
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I have not shot double tap...If today I was shooting any of the 35s, I would opt for a 225 Nosler partition or one of the light Barnes X HP bullets I suspect. I have a 35 Rem Marlin, I never shoot it, but I have some 150 or 200 gr. Barnes x loaded for it to about 2200 as I recall and I'll bet they will lay a deer in the salt mighty quick, maybe even an elk at 100 yards give or take 75 yards?? but I have better calibers I like to hunt with..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Surefire. In my Whelen, I have been using the Speer 250 Hotcore for as long as I can remember. Chronograph shows velocities of 2600fps+ out of my 12 twist 24 inch barrel. I have used the bullet on a number of elk, with great success, however as Ray mentioned they do blow up, if that's important. A couple years ago I shot a big cow with this load, hit right in the heart. The recovered bullet weighed 56 grains. On the other side of this coin, I shot another elk with a 225 Ballistic tip at about 2725fps, and the recovered bullet weighed 206 grains. I use the Hotcore, Ballistic Tip (Accubond), and The partition, and I can't complain about any of them. FWIW!

Jerry


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Posts: 1297 | Location: Chandler arizona | Registered: 29 August 2003Reply With Quote
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Jerry,

Thank you for your input and the real world experience with those three bullets.
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 26 May 2010Reply With Quote
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I also forgot to mention, that the 225 grain Accubond have accounted for 4 Bison in Kansas, I was not the shooter, just the hand loader. All with good success.

Jerry


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Posts: 1297 | Location: Chandler arizona | Registered: 29 August 2003Reply With Quote
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Ray and Jerry,

Thank you both for your input on the Speer bullets, and the rest of them as well.

Wow, four Bison with 225 Accubonds! The largest animal I have taken with my Whelen is elk. My wife and I both use the Whelen now and have had mostly 'drop to the shot' experiences with it. I have also taken Leopard and plains game with it as well. But Bison, man, that's a big animal.

Not saying the Whelen is the end all caliber for hunting, but it has served us very well, and is much more effective than most people think of it. A 250 gr. 35 caliber bullet at 2600 fps is certain death to most animals, including apparently, animals as large as the American Bison! Considering correct shot placement of course. Smiler

Double Tap also makes a 310 gr. load at 2,300 fps (Woodleigh soft or solid). I've never used that on game yet, but it ought to be a peach. I also shoot the 280 SAF, which may be the best of the lot for me. But to each their own and their own personal uses on game they hunt.

I really appreciate hearing real world experience on animals from hunters who have used certain calibers and bullets, so again, Ray and Jerry, thank you!
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 26 May 2010Reply With Quote
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Surefire: Here's a little more fodder. On a bison hunt a few years ago, my buddy was shooting 250 grain Nosler Partitions in his Douglas Barreled Whelen. He was loading the top load of RL15, don't quite remember the grains, as I use IMR4064. I do know the velocities were at or over 2600fps. This was his first Bison hunt. At the shot, you heard bang, fwap of the bullet as it hit, and then zing as the bullet went skipping across the prairie while the buffalo tipped over. Pretty impressive. The range was around 80 yards.

I have been loading The 35 Whelen since the 1970'S, all with IMR 4064. Same load now as I used then. The results have never changed, except now we have many more tools including chronographs to test things with. I find it interesting, that today and using a chronograph, the velocities my rifle creates are spot on to what the book showed back in 1971. The Whelen is one heck of a cartridge.

Jerry


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Posts: 1297 | Location: Chandler arizona | Registered: 29 August 2003Reply With Quote
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Jerry,

Thank you for the extra 'fodder'. That is indeed an impressive feat for the supposedly anemic 35 Whelen. You obviously had complete penetration with that 250 NP skipping across the prarie. That is the round that I use mostly in my Whelen. Smiler

I knew that Bison were obviously larger than elk, but I wanted to look up exactly how much bigger so I went to Wikipedia. It said the largest wild bull ever recorded was 2,800 lbs. It said in captivity they can grow bigger and the largest recorded in captivity was 3,801 lbs., so they beat the largest elk by about 1,500 to 2,500 lbs apparently.

Thanks for sharing Jerry. I'm thinking about hunting a T-Rex with my Whelen if I can find one! Big Grin
 
Posts: 2581 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 26 May 2010Reply With Quote
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I feel that the Speer bullets act more like a bonded bullet (they are made with a hot cor process) and hold together very well. Whereas the noslers always lose their front end which they are designed to do. Maybe the noslers create more internal damage.
 
Posts: 2531 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Reddy375: I don't know about the Noslers creating more internal damage. In my experience, and within the ranges I have been shooting elk, the Noslers pass thru out to about 200yds, with a well placed shot. The Speer's on the other hand always stay in the animal and do a lot of damage. Personally, I like them both and can't complain about their performance on anything I have shot. Both have grouped at one time or another in the same hole at 100 yds, so I am happy there also.

Jerry


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Posts: 1297 | Location: Chandler arizona | Registered: 29 August 2003Reply With Quote
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I have never had any problem getting 2600 FPS from a Whelen with 250 gr. bullets..but some claim I hotrod my rifles, something Ive never noticed..I just load max. and I know where max is on all my rifles, that's the first thing I do when I get a rifle..Some are better than others.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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If this adds anything to the discussion I've used the 225 gr partion out of my 350 rem mag which is for all practical purposes is the whelens ballistic twin with excellent results. It's pretty much is in one side and out the other with lots of destruction in between. So far everything has fallen within sight. I for one am very impressed with the midsize 35's. Lots of thump in a fairly small package.


Roger
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Posts: 2786 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I started off with the 250 Hotcore in my Whelen in the mid 2400's. Used it on a nice Black bear that went about 20 yards, never recovered the bullet.

I was able to pick up a bunch of Nosler Part in the 250 grain. Running those in the mid 2400's I took a Kudu, Wildebeest, Warthog and Zebra a few years ago. I only recovered one bullet from the wildebeest that was quartering away.

Considering the 35 Whelen is really close to the 9.3x62, and that cartridge is used extensively in Africa, I don't think there's much a person couldn't take with it.

I still have a supply of Hotcores on hand and wouldn't have an issue using them on Elk or Moose. But since I've got the Partitians loaded up I'd probably just go that route.
 
Posts: 195 | Registered: 02 July 2002Reply With Quote
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I have been shooting a 35 whelen ai since 1999 moose 3 black bear caribou 225gr part and swift only found a few bullets most passed on through the 35ai whelen is a wack and stack weapon my go to gun.
 
Posts: 155 | Location: mn | Registered: 08 November 2008Reply With Quote
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I used my .35 Whelen in Africa for plains game and it worked awesome. Shot the 225 grain TBBC in my rifle and it chronographed 2620 fps from my rifle. All 8 of the animals were 1 shot kills, ranging from steenbok to eland. Longest shot was 230 yards on a kudu
 
Posts: 214 | Location: Nebraska | Registered: 23 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Congrats on your hunt and rifle! Since the BLR is made in 30-06, seems like an old steel BLR is just asking to be rebarreled in 35 Whelen. Maybe a reason for me to buy another rifle Smiler


Regards,

Chuck



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Posts: 4712 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: 01 January 2008Reply With Quote
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or a 9.3x62, one of my favorite African cartridges that Ive shot all the PG with and a few buffalo..The 270 gr. speer in 9.3x62 is way soft and only good for deer size animals..Lots of good 9.3 bullets available..That said age and old bones have put the quaiedas on my African hunting and that's OK, been there many times, today I shoot the .338 Win almost exclusively on elk, and the 308 or 30-06 on deer. I used it a lot in Africa and Im sold on the .338, even a good buffalo caliber with a heavy Woodliegh or Nosler. Been a long time since I shot the 35 Whelen, but it always performed to perfection when I did, but the .338 has a range advantage over the 9.3's or 35 W. where I hunt in far Southern Colorado, seems like all shots are in the 375 to 450 yard range in that low rolling hill and sage country, but lots of elk if you hit it right in late Sept and early Oct.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I built a .35 Whelen on a pre'64 Winchester M/70 more than 25 years ago. When I got the rifle back from reboring I did extensive research,loading and range testing. The 225gr. Sierra bullet gave the best accuracy, my powder of choice back then was IMR 4064. The 225gr. Sierra gave good performance on whitetail, I have been loading the 225gr. Nosler lately and have started to develop a load for RL-15 with both of these bullets.
 
Posts: 378 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 22 November 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Apparantly they have toughened up that bullet at some point..I shot about half a dozen whitetail with it in a 358 Win. savage mod. 99 and every bullet blew up inside..It killed fine but even a 300 yard shot in the white patch of the neck blew a soft ball size hole and did not penetrate the thin neck of a 140 lb. whitetail buck. I don't doubt the posts just adding my experience from the late 1960s...I assumed then the bullets were ment for the 35 Remington thus the over expansion..??? They were Speer boat tail soft points.


This^
Had the same experience on Boar. I hope they've "toughened it up" as I recall they were very accurate in my .358 Win.
 
Posts: 55 | Location: DE | Registered: 18 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by reddy375:
Just returned from Africa where we used the 35 Whelen to shoot 2 zebra and about 8 impala..... Overall my take is that it the Speer hot core is a good bullet when used at these velocities in the Whelen.....

AR


On impala and those specific zebra...

Granted, zebra can be tough but this doesn't really show good performance. The only potential test was the one shot where the bullet wasn't recovered and who knows whether a bullet or fragment reached the vitals? Granted it worked fine but see the warnings others have given about how soft these bullets are. I'd just be cautious to call it tried and tested. At one point I thought that the Interlock worked well at 2500fps in the 308 Win.

The softer bullets applied in approproate circumstances are deadly and very impressive killers, but you will ultimately be limiting opportunities a lot with all of the softer bullets. Anyway for fear of opening that premium bullet discussion...

Either way it sounded like a great hunt and I'm pleased that the results were good.
 
Posts: 688 | Location: JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA | Registered: 17 January 2013Reply With Quote
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If I were to use a 35 Whelen today on elk, which is unlikely as Im sold on the .338 Win., I would opt for the 280 gr. Swift or the 275 gr. Speer Grand Slam, both premium bullets, and both are extremely effective..Its no great trick to get 2400 plus FPS in a 26 inch barrel, with either bullet and most reloading manuals quote velocity of near 2500 FPS with a number of powders and a 225 or 250 gr. bullet. Sometimes I wonder if some folks don't have reloading books to refer to, as you can get ..

That said, I was always impressed with a 35 Whelen Ackleu IMP. and later the awesome 35 Gibbs but it was a lot of trouble to reload, those were fine toys but then I went to the 9.3x62 and loved it, used it for years..but in the end I settled on the .338 Win. as the best elk caliber ever. A 210 gr. Nosler at 3020 FPS in my gun for cross canyon elk, and a 300 gr. Woodliegh at 2500 FPS for thick stuff or just shoot the 225 Nosler partition or Accubond for everything under any circumstances.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I shoot the factory loaded 225gr Speer TBBC in my Whelens. One is a 7600 Remmy pump I made into an 18" barreled carbine and the other is a custom glass stocked M77RS I finished with Metalife hard chrome to make it weatherproof. The Whelen is a hard hitter out to 250-300 yards.
 
Posts: 4115 | Location: Pa. | Registered: 21 April 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I shoot the factory loaded 225gr Speer TBBC in my Whelens. One is a 7600 Remmy pump I made into an 18" barreled carbine and the other is a custom glass stocked M77RS I finished with Metalife hard chrome to make it weatherproof. The Whelen is a hard hitter out to 250-300 yards.


The Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is a solid shank bullet with a bonded lead core as designed by Jack Carter. This is an excellent bullet but very different from the other Speer designs. I'm not sure but I think Federal makes them now.
 
Posts: 688 | Location: JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA | Registered: 17 January 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
Since the BLR is made in 30-06, seems like an old steel BLR is just asking to be rebarreled in 35 Whelen. Maybe a reason for me to buy another rifle Smiler


How bout a Winchester 1895 in 35 Whelen..? Hmm.. Could be the ultimate Elk rifle!
 
Posts: 10112 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
quote:
Originally posted by chuck375:
Since the BLR is made in 30-06, seems like an old steel BLR is just asking to be rebarreled in 35 Whelen. Maybe a reason for me to buy another rifle Smiler


How bout a Winchester 1895 in 35 Whelen..? Hmm.. Could be the ultimate Elk rifle!


Heavy and a PITA to carry IMO. I'll stick with my 35 Whelen bolt guns.
 
Posts: 1572 | Location: Either far north Idaho or Hill Country Texas depending upon the weather | Registered: 26 March 2005Reply With Quote
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This is a FWIW: but worth quite a lot in my view -- the late Finn Aagaard (former PH in Kenya before moving to Texas), excellent writer for Wolfe Publications, wrote an article some time ago comparing the .338-06 and .35 Whelen, both of which he had made in identical forms with 22" (Douglas, I believe) barrels. Later he wrote another piece on the .35 Whelen, again making reference to his custom with the 22" barrel. In his .35 Whelen he was getting an average of 2602 fps from the 250 Nosler Part. from 60 grains of RL-15 without any evidence of excessive pressure. He also made reference to a "buddy" resident of Alaska who had killed several grizzly with his .35 Whelen Improved, who was getting 2600 fps from the 250gr Speer Hot Cor (NOT BT). That was the only bullet he used on grizz and never retrieved one.

Again, FWIW.

My experience with the .35 Whelen has amounted to a LOT of handloading of 200's, 225's, 250's and the 300gr Barnes Original. It was a Remington 7400 that was as strong as any bolt action and very accurate. I put approximately 600 rounds through it without any issues whatsoever, including the 300 Barnes at over 2300 fps into MOA! It had a 1-16 twist.

The only game I took with it was a black bear at 97 yards with one 200gr X-Bullet at an MV of 2800 fps.

In looking for another .35 Whelen, I came home with a Tikka T3 Lite in 9.3 X 62. So far, three bears using a 286 Hornady, a 286 N.P. and a 250 AB. But it will NOT shoot the 270 Speer! All others, including the 232 Oryx and 320gr Woodleigh, MOA or better. RL-17 is THE best powder if you are not afraid of powder compression to about 109%. I use RL-15 for the 232 Oryx.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca


"Let every created thing give praise to the LORD, for he issued his command, and they came into being" - King David, Psalm 148 (NLT)

 
Posts: 845 | Location: Kawartha Lakes, ONT, Canada | Registered: 21 November 2008Reply With Quote
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