Ray,

After my last post, I got to wondering why you would prefer a 375 for Elk hunting. Then I asked myself what kind of terrain you hunt vs. myself.

I hunt in wide open areas of CO where Elk are making their migration from summer range (mountains) to winter range (open country, lower elevation). I can see herds coming for over a mile easily. You, on the other hand, are probably hunting in the dark timber of the Idaho mountains that go straight up and down with little/no flat land. Shooting an Elk, to have it run to the bottom of a drainage where you will dress it and pack it out, cannot be fun. I can see where the 375 ruger may come in pretty handy.

Perhaps you should consider a 458 Lott...

If one has never had the 'joy' of hauling an Elk out of the bottom of a mountain back up to the top, it may persuade one to use a bit more than a 280 the next go round! There is a lot to be said for DRT. I should not have questioned my elder...

quote:

If one has never had the 'joy' of hauling an Elk out of the bottom of a mountain back up to the top, it may persuade one to use a bit more than a 280 the next go round! There is a lot to be said for DRT.

Is there another way? Not for me at least, but I'm hunting in the Cascades.

I assisted two 65 year old brothers with packing out a 6x6. My OnX map says from the kill site back to the top which was 9,400 feet above sea level was 3326 feet and 4.8 inches up.

I nearly died. I decided I did not need to kill an elk down there.

I absolutely love the whelen. A 9.3 is more powerful but then you are very close to a 375 H&H, and a 375 H&H is better than the 9.3 so for the plains game I think it makes sense to stick with the 35W. I have used mine to shoot:

Brown bear
roan
zebra
hartebeest
wildebeest
warthog
kob
red stag

My gun is 1/14 twist and shoots the 225 grain swift A frames very accurately, but doesnt shoot the 250s very well, enough for hunting but I have stuck to the 225s. And for those who keep saying the whelen is a brush gun, i have shot several animals over 200 yards! Which I would say is the distance 95% of African plains game is shot at if not way closer.

I cannot understand why everyone is bashing Boddington about not calling the 404 a magnum! he didn't invent the bloody cartridge! Take it up with the dead and gone at Jefferys!

I don't get the Boddington slamming either. Just the usual let's pick on a gun writer for writing I guess. It was quite obvious that he simply used what the manufacturers themselves called the cartridge but I guess that sailed over the head of a few folks here.

I see the Whelen as certainly being a contender for all around North American choice and a good one but I suppose it depends where an individual spend most of his time hunting. If it's mostly open country then a little flatter shooting choice might be better. But then that's the start of more campfire discussion and disagreement!

When people start publishing wound channels at distance, their claims about the superiority of one round or another at distance, will have more credibility.

I wanted a 35 Whelen since I first read the 1923 article on its development that Major Whelen wrote for the American Rifleman. Obviously I did not read the article when it was fresh on the newsstand.

I also read the glowing words that Elmer Keith had for the rounds, in his book :Big Game Rifles and Ammunition.

For the time period, what Townsend Whelen did made sense. The pre 64 M70 with its long action had not been built yet, and if you wanted a larger cartridge than a 30-06, you had to buy a double or a single shot. By necking up a 30-06 to 0.358 inch made a lot of sense at the time.

In terms of accuracy, my 35 Whelen's kick too much and I cannot shoot them as well as a 30 caliber or less round. I have shot over a thousand 200 grain Federal Fusion Rn, during load development, because they were cheap, and shot hundreds of the 225 grain Sierra BTSP. Shooting a 250 grain bullet in this caliber is punishing.

I do not get book velocities out of my 22 or 24 inch barrels without blowing primers. Since I have not determined whether a 100fps or even a 200 fps difference at the muzzle makes any difference on the hole in the animal, (and I doubt it does out to 300 yards), getting your panties in a wad about velocity differences is simply being a drama queen.

I have shot my 35 Whelen's at CMP Talladega out to 600 yards. At 300 yards the cartridge will mostly hold the seven inch ten ring. That is good enough for game shooting. Those RN Federal Fusion bullets took an incredible amount of elevation to be on at 600 yards, and did not shoot well. Unfortunately CMP Talladega does not have a 400 or 500 yard target, but round nosed, flat base bullets do not have high ballistic coefficients and are probably tumbling before they hit the 600 yard target. Just where they tumble, heck if I know.

As for those touting magnum calibers because of their range, well prove you can hit the target at range. I am finding that virtually every bullet, every caliber does well out to 300 yards, but beyond that, it is up to you to prove that the bullet, at the velocity you are pushing it, stays stable at the distance you plan to hit anything. I have been amazed at what a 50 fps difference in velocity made for barely holding the eight foot by eight frame, and the black.

And you don't know this stuff till you put rounds on target.

So, out to 300 yards, I have no doubt the 35 Whelen will hammer. But it also hammers the shooter.

I respectfully disagree that the 35 Whelen hammers the shooter.

I think it’s recoil is significantly less than a 375 and more comparable to a 30/06.

I send anyone who wants it chrono readings of 2700 with 225 grain bullets from 24 inch barrel.

I shot 204 rounds getting ready for my elk hunt.

Surefire,
Your correct in your sumation of meself!! I basically have no particular reason for using the 375 for elk, just like it, and that too can change in a heartbeat as Ive killed enough elk with lighter calibers from the 25-35 on up, and determined that one is as good as the other if you know the calibers limit and the condidtions of the hunt but in the long term I do believe that one should use a caliber that will penetrate an elk from stem to stern to back up a bad first shot, and a 30-06 with a proper bullet will do that, in other words I like the .375 for no particular reason when you run me in a cornor!!

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
Surefire,
Your correct in your sumation of meself!! I basically have no particular reason for using the 375 for elk, just like it, and that too can change in a heartbeat as Ive killed enough elk with lighter calibers from the 25-35 on up, and determined that one is as good as the other if you know the calibers limit and the condidtions of the hunt but in the long term I do believe that one should use a caliber that will penetrate an elk from stem to stern to back up a bad first shot, and a 30-06 with a proper bullet will do that, in other words I like the .375 for no particular reason when you run me in a cornor!!

The comparing of calibers is the biggest waste of time, and the most ridiculas subjects we involve ourselves in...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The comparing of calibers is the biggest waste of time, and the most ridiculas subjects we involve ourselves in...

Yea, I never see Aaron Nielson commenting ad nauseum about calibers - he just goes out and kills stuff. I suspect he doesn't get lost in the romanticism of cartridges such as the 35 Whelen but instead uses stuff he knows works at all ranges. But to each is own.

Aaron Neilson on film most often uses the RUM cartridges.

I agree with you about the cartridge debates. However, enjoy them like I enjoy/enjoyed arguing how much better John Smoltz is compared to Roger Clemons.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The comparing of calibers is the biggest waste of time, and the most ridiculas subjects we involve ourselves in...

Now Ray, don't be a killjoy. You know that cartridge comparison is the bread & butter of the 'large, medium and small' bore subforums.

But, I suppose you're right of course, and we do indeed 'waste time' in the discussions. Just think, if everyone would simply agree that the 35 Whelen is the king of cartridges, we could all save a lot of our recreation spare time!

You made a good point in that location of the hunt, when I hunt the Sage brush I normally will use a .338 Win or a 30-06, when I hunt the black timber I will use a 375 or a 30-06, no particular rhyme or reason, but I sure try to stop the animal on the spot so I don't have to go to the bottom of a divide and in Idahos black timber its a 45 degree to straight down, and not a flat spot big enough to gut an elk!! shots fortunately are close and a high neck or head shot is usually available, or you may be shooting across a canyon but its so steep that may be 10 yards across but 5 miles deep!! Even in my younger days I dreaded packing an elk to the horses or a trail..

As Ive aged I have refined my elk hunting to the sage brush flats and low hills of Southern Idaho, besides thats where the most elk are these days and especially the big big bulls, mostly draw hunts..hunt on foot or horseback and then go get the pickup if you kill one..Idaho has really picked up on its elk herd and I suspect the wolves have run the elk into the sage brush, but I see no wolf sign so far. todays elk hunting in Idaho is as good as it if you can draw..I usually get a depredation tag from one of my roping buddys who ranch, and cow meat beats the sox off a big bull..