quote:

Originally posted by Clan_Colla:
The accuracy is real-
Not optimistic at all in my rifle - 300Win SR30 HPPR

Hornady 200gr ELDX factory,or my hand loads, meet the promise.

As well as other HPPR's I have fired.

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:

quote:

Originally posted by Clan_Colla:
https://www.heymusa.com/rifles/hppr.html

Accuracy Guarantee
Each HEYM HPPR is guaranteed to shoot five, successive shots
(no barrel cooling between shots)
into 20mm or less at 100 meters before leaving the factory.

(SR30 straight pull or SR21 turn bolt)

Yes, I've read that. It seems pretty optimistic to me, given the very light barrel contour I witnessed on the Heym SR30 I saw in .270 Win. It's hard to imagine 5 shots without barrel cooling going into 20 mm (.8")

Other rifle companies have similar guarantees; Sako, for example, talk about 5-shot groups under MOA. With all these accuracy guarantees, I have to wonder just how they operationalize accuracy. Do they shoot a bunch of groups in a tunnel, for example, perhaps continuing until they get one that meets the "guarantee"? I'd be shocked if they used the NRA standard of 5 consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yard.

So I just ignore these guarantees. I'm a handloader, so expect to do some serious load development before discovering the rifle's true accuracy potential, and do so using the more stringent (and, in my opinion, proper) criterion.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:
Yes, excellent point. Too often we hear of rifles that will shoot .50" groups "all day." When I read this, I imagine a shooter shooting a bunch of groups, and when his wiggles match the wobbles, he manages to get one .50 (or maybe .60" or so) group out of all the groups shot with the rifle and concludes he has a "1/2-inch rifle." This does not index that rifle's accuracy--far from it. The only meaningful accuracy criterion is something approaching what you have indicated, Mike, the average of 5 consecutive 5-shot groups shot at a sitting. the "consecutive" part of this is important so as to rule out cherry-picking groups, under the assumption that "I must have pulled a shot out in that larger group." An average over 10 consecutive groups would be even better. The NRA staff when accuracy-testing in the American Rifleman use the 5 consecutive 5-shot-group average in their rifle evaluations.

Frankly, it flies in the face of what we know about hunting-rifle barrel/action quality to expect any hunting-weight rifle to be a true .2" to .5" rifle, in the sense noted above. I would consider any hunting-weight sporting rifle that produced 1 MOA groups using the proper, stringent criterion described above to be an extremely accurate rifle.

We used to have an aluminium stock in Australia that has the same shape as a Rem 40 XB but was skeleton in the butt and forend. There were originally made because in the early days of bench rest it was the start of not just the PPC but the fully hollow fibreglass stock. Such a stock is why the "glue in" started. So the allow stock was made with a solid middle. Out of the mould they were basically set up for inletting a short or long Rem 700 but you have others and I have had among Remington one for a Model 70 and also a Mark V. all mine were done as repeaters.

Blair338RUM on AR will confirm all of this.

I have always had a very strong interest in getting top accuracy BUT with hunting calibres and loads and normal chambers don with JGS reamers. The Remingtons and M70 had Jewell triggers. One Rem 700 was a magnum bolt face action and the other 3 were 30/06 actions. All actions were faced off so barrels could be swapped between actions. 6mm/06 and 270 were two common chamberings. I would go to the trouble of getting different sets of dies as not all dies will give the same results even if the same brand.

One of the pluses of the skeleton forend was the rifle oould look good whether it had a number 5 barrel or an HV barrel. Our Number 5 was .72" at muzzle of 26", almost the same as Wby Accumark.

Most of the time I had "glue ins" onto Devcon bedding.

One day at the range, a range where we could reload in a shed or on the bench, a bloke came up to me who had a HB Sako 243. He asked me what the 6mm/06 I was using at that time with number 5 barrel would shoot. I said very close to half inch at 100 yards. He said his Sako would beat that and why did I go to so much trouble

So I said lets compare them but with a few conditions. First shot from a clean barrel. Then we wait an hour and then a shot from a cold hard fouling barrel. Then a shot loaded in new brass (for me that was necked 25/06 Winchester brass) then a shot from Full Sized fired brass and then a shot from a neck sized case. I can't remember his exact words but they were along the lines of "what you call 1/2 inch groups is very different to what I call 1/2" groups and your rifle shits all over mine.

I offered him one more comparison and he was getting quite keen. I said we fire a 5 shot group and then wait and hour and then another 5 shot group on same target (same aiming mark) and an our later another 5 shot group on same target.

I then said to him would like to shoot the gun yourself and they way you shoot normally. The loading gear was all set nd I said go for life. I went up to the other end of the range to talk to some bloke and about 15-20 minutes later he came up and said "you know I owned that rifle I would call it a one hole rifle".

By the way, with a HV PPC. to do .2 MOA of 5 groups at a 100 and 5 groups AT 200 you need a lot of skill. Need to be able to read the conditions and hopefully get the shots off when conditions are the same. I can't do it.

With the very accurate guns they do it all easy. Like cruising around in a big V8 manual. Barrels will usually have been selected. You need to be prepared to dump a barrel.

The 6mm/06 (and 270s) I referred to above you could mix a bunch of loads with lots of different bullet weights, different powders and a composite group of 15 shots would be under an inch.

Beretta682E said his Blasers will do .2 to .5. The ones that do .2 would run right the top in HV bench rest competition and win some LV competitions and probably win all Sporter class Bench rest competitions.

quote:

Originally posted by Clan_Colla:
the rifle at work

quote:

Originally posted by Clan_Colla:
HEYM High-Performance Precision Rifle (HPPR)

https://www.heymusa.com/rifles/hppr.html

Ralf Martini is your Heym dealer in Canada

https://martinigunmakers.com

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

The luddites and curmudgeons are having a emoji fest

The blaser r8 platform is simply - spectacular SHIT !!!

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

I think, of the various straight-pull rifles, the Heym SR30 design perhaps strays the least from basic Mauser principles. The bolt locks up in the receiver ring and, once unlocked, works much like a standard bolt. It looks very much like the standard-design Heym SR21.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by South Pender:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

I think, of the various straight-pull rifles, the Heym SR30 design perhaps strays the least from basic Mauser principles. The bolt locks up in the receiver ring and, once unlocked, works much like a standard bolt. It looks very much like the standard-design Heym SR21.

Saeed's rifles illustrate a problem with a rifle where locking lug recesses are in the barrel. Saeed has a pair 375/404 Jeffery Improveds. If he had a Blaser etc. how would he go, it would be a no go situation.

Basically I think the Blaser is top choice for the shooter who will get the rifle out of the box and want to go no further and not even having changes made in the future as an idea on his mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think all these silly, pointless designs are just an abomination!

I have tried the Blaser, The Heym and the Mauser 66 - which goes a step further in being stupidly designed that the whole top moves backwards!

I will stick to good old proven design, and leave these silly contraptions to people who would not what a real rifle looks like!

The luddites and curmudgeons are having a emoji fest

The blaser r8 platform is simply - spectacular SHIT !!!

Mike

Fixed it for you!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
There is a guy who builds custom barrels in one off calibers for blaser r8.

The bolt head for magnum works from 300 win mag to 458 Lott.

A blaser barrel is one of the main reasons to buy a blaser

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
There is a guy who builds custom barrels in one off calibers for blaser r8.

The bolt head for magnum works from 300 win mag to 458 Lott.

A blaser barrel is one of the main reasons to buy a blaser

Mike

As I said, Saeed could have a Blaser. He has 404 case head.

Does the bloke doing custom Blasers use a barrel of your choice and your contour and twist choice.

Does he do wildcats like 450 Ackley, 7mm Mashburn, 270/300 Wby etc.

30/378 is out.

I realise none of the above will affect the average bloke but at the price the Blaser is not for the average bloke.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Think he does but getting non blaser barrels for blasers are not something I pay much attention to.

Blaser are a complete platform. Most custom stuff I see is guys building specialized bolt knobs that thread on.


Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The difference between Blaser lovers and real riflemen and hunters is very simple.

When one of us wants a rifle, he goes to a well know manufacturer, and buys what he wants.

Or go to a custom gun maker and gets the rifle he is after made to his requirements.

Or, go the whole hop and design and build their own.

Blasers lovers are like teenage kids at a Bieber concert! Screaming their heads off worshiping an utter idiot, or a useless product.

No bloody sense at all!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, where's your hat? :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, where's your hat? :-)

I haven't caught the exact moment my dog, wearing the hat, get's a turd half way out. If I can ever get that photo, I'll post it!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, where's your hat? :-)

I haven't caught the exact moment my dog, wearing the hat, get's a turd half way out. If I can ever get that photo, I'll post it!

Todd you need the read the blaser USA ceo interview in the magazine for shot show.

He says something like blaser is a aspiration product - buyers aspire to a blaser no one settles for a blaser.

I thought about you

Funny thing is blaser has stopped doing the shot show - too tactical not high end hunting for blaser’s consumer base

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, where's your hat? :-)

I haven't caught the exact moment my dog, wearing the hat, get's a turd half way out. If I can ever get that photo, I'll post it!

Todd you need the read the blaser USA ceo interview in the magazine for shot show.

He says something like blaser is a aspiration product - buyers aspire to a blaser no one settles for a blaser.

I thought about you

Funny thing is blaser has stopped doing the shot show - too tactical not high end hunting for blaser’s consumer base

Mike

Is that part of the same propaganda where he says the company wants you to think the other shooters at the range consider you "SMART" for owning a such a TURD?

Here's a hint ... they don't!

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, where's your hat? :-)

I haven't caught the exact moment my dog, wearing the hat, get's a turd half way out. If I can ever get that photo, I'll post it!

Todd you need the read the blaser USA ceo interview in the magazine for shot show.

He says something like blaser is a aspiration product - buyers aspire to a blaser no one settles for a blaser.

I thought about you

Funny thing is blaser has stopped doing the shot show - too tactical not high end hunting for blaser’s consumer base

Mike

Is that part of the same propaganda where he says the company wants you to think the other shooters at the range consider you "SMART" for owning a such a TURD?

Here's a hint ... they don't!

Hate it all you want - it is the future of rifles

At least high end rifles otherwise it is ruger American

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd, where's your hat? :-)

I haven't caught the exact moment my dog, wearing the hat, get's a turd half way out. If I can ever get that photo, I'll post it!

Todd you need the read the blaser USA ceo interview in the magazine for shot show.

He says something like blaser is a aspiration product - buyers aspire to a blaser no one settles for a blaser.

I thought about you

Funny thing is blaser has stopped doing the shot show - too tactical not high end hunting for blaser’s consumer base

Mike

Is that part of the same propaganda where he says the company wants you to think the other shooters at the range consider you "SMART" for owning a such a TURD?

Here's a hint ... they don't!

Hate it all you want - it is the future of rifles

At least high end rifles otherwise it is ruger American

Mike

I suppose there will always be a segment of society that think the Kardashians are important.

Serious minded folks don't.

quote:

buyers aspire to a blaser no one settles for a blaser.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

buyers aspire to a blaser no one settles for a blaser.

Oh bloody hell!

You mean they are so damn brainless they actually ASPIRE to owning a totally useless product?

The mind boggles!

quote:

And the serious minded folks are laughing their asses off at them.