I've mentioned before my troubles with the Redding 1400-XT case trimmer: the difficulties in getting it to give consistent lengths and of changing the trim length. The main problems I see are that they allow the handle's lock ring to grind up against the green crackle paint of the frame, rather than a hardened washer, and that the lock ring's grub screw damages the thread on the spindle so that after a while it is very difficult to adjust.

This week I found a makeshift answer to the latter problem by loosening the cutter shaft, inserting a long case, putting a shim between the lock ring and frame and then put pushing the handle and cutter shaft towards each other before tightening the cutter set screw. After that the shim was removed and the lathe would trim cases by the shim's thickness. This all worked well until I decided to remove the lock ring to find out why it was such a PITA to adjust, and found the ruined thread beneath.

But other troubles have since raised their heads.

One is the Lee 'Perfect' powder measure. Sometimes it throws beautiful loads, accurate beyond tenths of a grain, but fine Winchester ball powder gets into the guts to leak out later with some other powder - and sometimes nothing comes out at all. By the end of one session with RE19 powder, I had to throw about four pans before anything usable came out.

Can anyone suggest a more-reliable measure?

Worst of all, though, was a bag of projectiles I'd bought at an arms-and-militaria show months ago. The dealer labelled them 270-grain .338 bullets and as they looked like Hornady spitzers, 50 seemed good value at $25. When I got home, however, the one I weighed came to only 225 grains, lighter than I'd ever used in lead-core .338 bullets.

When I came to loading them, though, after about eight rounds one bullet would not seat and remained stuck in the die when I pulled the handle down. I screwed down the seating screw and pushed it out but could not see anything wrong with the bullet or case. So, I tried a different bullet but had the same problem. Thinking a lack of porridge to blame, I employed more strength - but no go. I noticed then that the mouth of the case had been flared big time, causing me to look closer at the bullet. It seemed a bit fat and the calipers showed it to be .375" instead of .338.

Poring through the bag, I found nine other bullets just like it - they were 270 grains, at least, so the merchant wasn't a complete liar .

Oh dear. Not a good week for you. Sympathies.
What's to blame - Coronavirus, DJ Trump, Russian interference, slumping oil prices......??

Some thoughts. The fine grained pistol/shotgun powders are a PIA for progressives. The most dramatic example is 296/H110 and the .410. I swear half the charge ends up on the bench. Dunno why the shells work. Spolar used to caution users not to use it. Eventually, they figured out a "fix".

After using anything akin to 296 take the measure down and thoroughly clean it. I use isopropyl alcohol, dry it right then.

Can't help with the bullets....(duh). And I use a Wilson trimmer. My Dad's ancient Herters trimmer had a similar issue as your Redding tho. Which led to me getting the Wilson, so........

Every powder measure in existence is better than that one. Even the LEE dippers work better.

My Hornady L N L AP has the Hornady Lock N Load Powder Measure on it but my stand alone measures are an RCBS measure with both drums and a an old orange Lyman 55. If I had to choose just one of the three to use it probably would be the Hornady Lock N Load Powder Measure.

Steve.....

Thanks guys,
I'll take all that on board.

A buddy, hearing of my powder-measure problem, lent me his set of Lee scoops with slide-rule.

While I've never been a power user, I find the biggest scoop's 60-grain capacity hardly cuts it for the calibres I use. Hopefully a heaped scoop from a deep bowl will get me somewhere near the 70-grains-plus loads I'm working towards... or it might be back to the old Fiocchi 12G case, cut off, with a capacity-regulating bolt screwed in at the primer.

Sam:

You can't beat Lee's pins n trimmers.
I run the pin and cutter in a small
drill press. Made a handle to hold the
case. Only problem Lee don't make the
handle for it. I make them using 1/2 or
3/4" sq tubing, cut the center out of
the sides and drop the top onto the bottom
and weld it. drill a 1/4" hole and stick
the stubby shaft of the lock ring part
thru the hole and tack weld that. Mighty
easy handle about 4" long. I've trimmed
over 400 cases an hour lots of times.

Best thing you can do with Lee powder leaker
is shit can it and get a RCBS set. I got
a deal years ago for a pair of them and
a full set of drums and two Lil Dandies
for the small stuff I play with. Didn't
find a drum for the charge I wanted so
I turned three new drums on the lathe.
Drilled one and still have two spares
for whenever they're needed.

Best of luck over there.

George

No lathe type trimmer is accurate as you want Im sure..for real accuracy use a file trim die, its the only way if you intend to use a crimp..and they are not expensive but you have to have one for each caliber, sooooo.

Powder measures are kind only to certain individuals you have to find one that likes you. I have two and both are over 50 years old and we developed a trust in each other, it took me several years to develop that trust and do the same toss every time, then we became as one!! and with certain powders I don't need to use a scale, only with 4831 and 4350 and such as the cut grains and my brown powder measure hates them...It voodoo so approach with care.
One powder measure is a my latest RCBS and the other is a brown one I named hot shot! no brand name..

All the fun said, the secret to a powder measure is uniform operation the same move in every toss without variation or change..I recommend the green RCBS powder measure and scale..set your scale then set your powder measure to match and get after it..ball powders like H414, CFE-223, RL-15,22,17 and 26 etc..measure more accurately that others..

Beware of milsurp and gunshow dealers, many know not from whence they come.

Thanks George and Ray.
Your pins n trimmers instructions have gone a bit over my head, George. My father's electric welder is in the shed but, not used for 20 years, I might leave it there in case anyone needs an anchor. I see you agree with Ray about the RCBS powder measure, though, so I'll look out for one.

It has just occurred to me that I could use two dips from the Lee 2.5cc dipper to get 70.8 grains of RE19 and trickle* the rest if needed - or one of those and one with the 2.8cc dipper (to total 75 grains) if I really go mad. Two of the 2.8cc scoops would possibly regulate my .450/.400 with H4831.

*Always trying to justify reloading economically, my trickler is a plastic 12-gauge shotshell shell with an aluminum tube (whistle-holed and blocked at one end) across it at an angle. When I get down to the last few granules, I turn the whistle-hole down and just tap the case with my index finger.

Dippers aren't worth using IMO...The RCBS powder measure if your consistent to a fault in operation and you tend to be that, will load day in and day out without the use of a scale with most rifle cases, and use a powder that fills the case to the neck or half way up the neck..you need a littlel compaction for accuracy and it voids a double charge of course.

I'm beginning to agree, Ray. I've got a couple working but nowhere near where the slide rule says they should. I weigh every load, too, of course.

There is single trimmer more accurate than the Wilson with micrometer adjustments!

Have three in various sizes.

One is set for standard and short cases, one form long and magnum cases, the third has a custom cutter for the really large calibers.

We have tried everything.

Wilson is absolutely tops.

Thanks Saeed, if I ever buy another trimmer, I'll keep that in mind.

I've finally got the Redding working well enough, using my shim method and a flat piece of steel to engage the lock pin without having to slide it back in the lock-pin slot (a situation that would require considerable wrestling with the abominable lock ring).

I swear I've done nothing to harm anyone from China ... but the crap goes on.

Wanting for once in my life to really get more steam into my .338WM handloads, I noticed Alliant showed Speer 225-grain BTSP bullets could be loaded faster than other types with RE19.

No one around here had the boat-tail projectiles but then I found an older Alliant manual that gave the same load and velocities with Speer plain-base bullets, which I knew the nearest shop did have.

You could fire a cannon up the street yesterday but the gun shop was overpopulated, so I bought the box and got out of there.

It was labelled 'Deepcurl', meaningless to me until I slit the seals and looked inside. There I found concave-based bullets and an orange card warning that conventional reloading data should not be used to load DeepCurl bullets but that the specific data could be found at www.speer-bullets.com

Trouble is that website did not offer any DeepCurl info, as far as I could see, and a list of powders on the first screen when I entered the calibre and bullet weight did not include RE19 (the powder I'd bought because of its supposed application to the 338WM). A later Speer list did reproduce the Alliant manual info, plus a starting load, but only for the boat-tail soft point.

I've gleaned a consensus from another forum that these DeepCurl bullets give higher pressures than most other types, so will start to load them at least 10% lower than max, but would be interested to know whether I might get the velocities I'd like with such moderate powder weights.

While whingeing here and doing the case prep, I await a reply from Speer on the matters mentioned - but glad to hear any input from you guys, whose opinions I've come to value.

Stuck in social isolation tends to make folks minds wander..... Well I wandered into this thread so...

If Speer are a bit slow, here's what Q-load predicts:


Barrel taken at 26" in length.

Cartridge Over All Length 3.340"

Bullet Speer DCSP 225grn weight (2403 part number)
Powder Type Reloder 19
Powder Weight 70grn
Powder Volume 99% fill

Velocity 2719ft/sec

Energy 3694ft/Lb

Peak Pressure 3398bar (P-Max 4300bar)

The suggestion of a 10% reduction/start load would be prudent

I hope this is of help.

Thanks RW, it certainly is of help and your efforts in generating the figures are much appreciated.

(You may have noticed that in trying to get some info on this matter, I started a separate thread.)

One of the other respondents seemed to find the Speer dope, which claimed a max load of 74 grains of RE-19. However, knowing my Sako and the results I'd had with other 225-grain bullets, I did not expect to get within a bull's roar of that with DeepCurls.

And so, your max of 70 grains sounds much more realistic and I will indeed take it back to a boring level to work up.

I don't suppose RE-19 is so slow that 63 grains could be dangerously low?

Sam:

Get on Lee Precision's site and
look at their Pins and trimmers.
This is a three part setup.
Lock stud to hold the case, pin and
shell holder/lock ring, then the cutter.
You can use a 1/4" electric drill to run
the lock stud and case, hold the cutter
in your hand.

Simplist, most accurate trimming
system yet imo.

Cutter is 1/2" dia, slips into the
drill press chuck just right. Pins
made to fit each size case screw into
the cutter. Pins have a pin much like a
decapper pin on the end. Decapped case
it'll go thru the fire hole to full
length of the pin, if and when the case
is longer, the cutter trims it off.

After that, you need to clean the burrs
off inside and out. I've run over 400
cases per hour many a time: one step at
a time. When I get after the program, it's
usually running several hundred or thousands
of cases.

I have a small drill press on my loading
bench. One of the handiest tools I own.
Beats the hell out of ANY hand cranked
lathe set up ever made.

Pins cost about $4us, cutter about $5-6.
Sure pays to get at least two pins of each
size as the threaded end can break. From
here, it takes a couple weeks to get a
replacement n/c. No clue the time from
over there. Look around, might be a
Lee Precision supplier on your islands.

Best to look in their online catalog.

One thing Lee don't make is a handle for
the brass. There's a lock stud with a ring
for holding the case. Without a handle it's
a royal bitch to hold the cases. I've made
several from 1/2" square tubing about 4"
long. cut the center out about 3/4" inch.
Then weld the top and bottom together.
Tack weld the stud in a 1/4" hole. There's
the handle, slicker than hell. I've tried
to get Lee to make them, not interested
for some reason. They'd sure sell!
Too bad you're so far away, I'd make you
one. This Lee system is plumb cheap compared
to a Wilson knuckle buster, blister maker
system for $200 or more.

Cheers, keep occupied!! hehe!

George

Thanks George,
I guess you're talking about their Ziptrim (https://leeprecision.com/case-conditioning-tools/case-trimming-tools/zip-trim/).

It would be well priced if you got the whole caboodle for $26 but something tells me the main assembly would have to be be a lot more. You obviously reload on a scale industrial compared with my modest efforts.

I did look at Lee's Quicktrim before buying that Redding rubbish but realised I'd have to get a separate one for each calibre.

I have kind of got the Redding working now, in my parsimonious fashion, but advise against trying to micro-adjust the lock ring for each application because that will burr the thread, making it next to unmovable.

Better, I think is to make a horseshoe-shaped shim about 10 or 12 thou thick and use it between the frame and lock ring as explained previously, after removal of which cases will be shortened by the shim thickness. That same shim can be reused, too, whatever calibre you change to.

Cheers
- Paul

Having looked again at that Ziptrim, George, it appears to be a very neat idea and that the main assembly does only cost $26.

I guess by the time I paid the exchange rate and for cutters etc for each of the calibres I load, the cost would exceed $100 (Aussie dollars), still a bargain compared with the $300-odd the Redding cost me.

Righty then...

63grains will get you the following, should Q-load be accurate.

63grn of RL19
2448 ft/sec
2993ft/Lb
89% case fill
2496bar (4300 p-max)

So, you're just into the last 10% of case fill, which should be ok as a starting point. At the predicted velocity and pressure it would still make for a decent woodland load as 2990ft/Lb of energy is not to be sniffed at.

Thanks RW,
I'll add those numbers to my DeepCurl file.

How did Q-load know the particular pressure problem with these bullets?

I understand DeepCurl bullets are electroplated but is it possble this plating is not straight over the lead but some hard, corrosive metal like steel?

l would surmise that it's is mainly due to the gentleman who writes the program is extremely talented and may well have a lot of inside information.
That and my once getting the chance to speak to some of those same bods, some of whom confirmed several industry standards regarding the formulation and manufacture of sporting and other munitions, one of which l use when running the program from my end.
My little secret is that they allow a 300bar below P-Max pressure limit, this helps to compensate for many issues found when using one type of ammunition in more then one chamber and barrel.

Thanks again RW. That 300 bar is probably still less than the difference between Quickload's max and Speer's. Perhaps they've changed but some of Speer's old manuals (eg #9) seemed to be a bit cavalier in their loads.

Hearing of the steel-jacket possibility, a mate told me he once bought some Norma projectiles that seemed a bit slow to open up in kangaroos. One night while spotlighting, he noticed the .270 using them not only released a tongue of fire but a shower of sparks as well. Assuming this friction would not help barrel life, he put the remaining bullets aside and has not used them since.

My oldest Speer book is No9 (l'm still looking for earlier ones) and it's easy to see where some of the problem lies.
Some companies used Lab's with test barrels screwed into universal breach blocks, while others used a production rifle while working up loads slowly until they reached a maximum load, before backing off 5% and calling it good.
So, chambers cut in test barrels should in theory be right on spec' for a new reamer, tested with every gauge possible and have a PZ Transducer soldered/glued onto the barrel. Whereas the factory rifle has non of these attributes and the testing will be done by case head expansion, judgement and a spot of maths.
lf the factory chamber is slack/poor then pressures may not peak soon enough to give a safe load in a tight chambered custom rifle when the book data is later used.
The old argument rumbles on between P O Ackley and B Hodgdon regarding "Caboom's!!" when an insufficient charge of slow burning powder is fired in a large case. Hodgdon said that he could never make it happen in any way in his Lab' and yet Ackley has examples of rifle/what remained of their shattered parts in his workshop that had gone through such an episode.
Although this is the reverse of what we are talking about it goes to indicate that "All" known precautions should be used when one goes down the route of reloading, as anything can and does indeed wait to wrong should any of us stuff it up and not pay attention to what we're doing at the time.

l have a couple of boxes of bullets here (7mm) that a friend said l should test in my 7x57 Improved. When l ran a magnet over them and the box stuck to it, they were put back on the shelf... And there they will remain!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sambarman338:
I've mentioned before my troubles with the Redding 1400-XT case trimmer: the difficulties in getting it to give consistent lengths and of changing the trim length. The main problems I see are that they allow the handle's lock ring to grind up against the green crackle paint of the frame, rather than a hardened washer, and that the lock ring's grub screw damages the thread on the spindle so that after a while it is very difficult to adjust.

This week I found a makeshift answer to the latter problem by loosening the cutter shaft, inserting a long case, putting a shim between the lock ring and frame and then put pushing the handle and cutter shaft towards each other before tightening the cutter set screw. After that the shim was removed and the lathe would trim cases by the shim's thickness. This all worked well until I decided to remove the lock ring to find out why it was such a PITA to adjust, and found the ruined thread beneath.


I have made little brass plugs to go between set screw & threads, sometimes a piece of lead shot also.

Yes, both work.
Several die makers use either in the locking rings. l tend to use lead as it seems to spall less then brass and melds to the threads better so giving a firmer grip.

Thanks guys,
going back to another of my beefs, I finally discovered why I was having trouble with the Lee 'Perfect' powder thrower.

Because someone just gave an old one to me, I had no instructions and did not realise that the hole down from the red hopper was not positioned concentrically. Lee has some reason for this to regulate powder flow but somehow the screw holding mine had loosened slightly, making it prone to closing.

I don't recall touching the hopper too much, but maybe pinged it on occasion, hoping that would get the powder flowing and this closed the hole to a point where perhaps static electricity stopped any flow.

l think the off centre hole from the hopper to the drum is so the hopper can be shut off and the hopper drained, l can't see any other reason for it to be so.
lt can also close slightly if l get too rough throwing charges into the scale pan, l put it down to vibration.

l've got one here and it also has it's odd moods towards various powders, with it's attitude changing rapidly when l use long stick powders which it can struggle to cut through.


l've built a range loading box and it goes in there now, and two RCBS measures have replaced it on the bench.

On the Lee PPM the hopper has a shut off.
This lets you remove the hopper from the measure to empty.
You need to keep the screw snug enough so vibration won't turn the hopper.
There is a top on the drum. This is for using on a progressive press.
Without the stop the drum won't return as well. Vibrations from press operation helps the powder flow through a bit better.
When using it off a press, as on the stand it comes with you can trim the stop and the drum turns a bit farther. This ensures all the powder dumps. If you do this mod, don't use it on the progressive press.
On the side of the measure is a screw that holds the drum in the body. This screw can be snugged up a bit to help prevent fine powder from leaking. ' I adjust mine so the drum turns with just a touch of resistance. After you clean the measure you need to adjust this screw. It also helps to run some powder through the measure. The graphite in the powder lubes the drum. Thus helps smooth operation.
On the Lee site you can order a set of instructions. You may find them online some where as a download.
Most often when someone has an issue with a lee product is because they didn't red the instructions.
I like Lyman's 55 measure. I have three.
Leo

I hate trimming cases... especially if you have to do a lot of them.. I usually do my case prep in batches.. BIG batches for the common calibers like 308, 30-06, 243, 223, etc. so for these calibers I use the Little crow WFT. I use the small "crank" trimmers for small batches only say up to 50 cases.

For production, I have found the Little Crow Gunworks Worlds Finest Trimmer to be the answer to my case trimming prayers. And I have found them to be every bit as accurate as any other trimmer I have tried.... I have a drill mounted horizontally on my bench that I use the WFT with.

If you load large batches of a particular cartridge, I think you should give these a look..

Dillon makes a nice one but it ain't cheap. I bought a Forster to use on my drill press but the results are not the best. Now the design of motorizing the Forster bench crank model loos like a good idea but I haven't tried it yet.

Yes, I realise the purpose of the Lee hopper offset now. (I used to remove the whole thing from the stand to empty powder at the session end.)

For your amusement I'll add another factor (now solved) in my misery regarding the case trimmer.

In my innocence, I used to lubricate the outside and just inside the mouth of .338 cases before resizing. And, over the years, I think this took a toll on the expander button so that it did not expand the necks quite enough.

While this has never stopped me seating bullets, it's meant that getting the resized necks over the trimmer pilot was a real PITA. So, now I trim the cases before resizing, making them another 4-5 thou shorter to compensate for the lengthening to come in the process.

I haven't been loading my other calibres near as long, so they don't give the same trouble - and everything bottle-necked now gets lubricated inside the shoulder.