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7 Mag, very accurate rifle and load. Neck sized only on a name brand brass three times. Groups started opening up. Cleaned the rifle well, no help. Full length sized because I noticed every once in awhile one was hard to close the bolt on, figured the should might have to be set back. No help. Ok its me, I know my vision is failing. Son in law was with me the other day when I was shooting and he looked at the cases. Seems he had a similar problem. I use my press to seat the primes but some of them were not fully seated! We used a straight edge to check and found a couple that were full seated, he shot them and touched holes! I brought the rest home and really massaged the primes to get them fully seated, checked with a straight edge. Bug hole group at 200 yards! I have never had primer pockets close up on multiple firings! Hello primer pocket uniforming tool!
 
Posts: 429 | Location: South Central Texas | Registered: 29 August 2014Reply With Quote
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So are you saying that the primer pockets are TIGHTER after several firings?

Did you clean them before reloading or just use them full of residue?

Whatever the cause, I'm glad to hear you solved a problem.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1375 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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I would agree with this as some find just changing primers can make a difference to grouping. I have also noted with the 22 RF cartridge that in most cases when re-chambering a misfired cartridge and firing again the bullet impact can be well away from the normal POI.
I use a Gevarm 22RF semi auto which from memory has never had a misfire as it fires from an open bolt position with a ridge across the bolt face as the 'firing pin' so dents the rim in two places. These are amazingly accurate little rifles despite the fact that on release of the sear the breach block has to slam forward strip a round from the magazine, chamber and fire it. I put the accuracy down to better ignition from the rim 'primer' than any other rimfire rifle achieves.

I have never used a hand-primer of any sort, just my press and am not afraid to seat primers firmly, to pre-load the anvil in the bottom of the primer pocket.
 
Posts: 2854 | Location: Nelson, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Yes they got tighter with firing. Load is below book max, with no signs of over pressure. Yes I clean them every firing with one of those multi pin cleaner tools but not a pocket uniforming tool. I only seat primers with my press. My hand primer broke and the new one with safety just never worked right. Never had this happen in all my reloading days. It sure messed with accuracy! Son in law had brand new brass that he could not seat primers in. He had to uniform every one in that box.
 
Posts: 429 | Location: South Central Texas | Registered: 29 August 2014Reply With Quote
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Well if you're only reloading on a single stage press then using the primer pocket tool works just fine. If you are polishing your cases one tends to do that with the old primers still in so one does not have to deal with a pick + going through each case to clear any medium. Of course, if you're using a progressive press then you don't have much choice.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12866 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Primer pockets do get shallower!

Try something like the Sinclair primer pocket deburring tool on a new case.

Fire it and try again.

You will see that brass is removed after firing as well.


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Posts: 52200 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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progressive or single stage i hold each one up to eye level in front of a light to make sure primers are below flush before they go into the box. PITA but gotta be done. or put em on a plate of glass to see if they are at least flush.
 
Posts: 895 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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I just rub my index finger over the seated primers----can instantly feel if the are fully seated or not!

Hip
 
Posts: 404 | Location: Long Island, New York | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I use a Sinclair primer pocket uniformer on new brass and then to clean the primer pocket every time I reload the case before I put in a new primer. What Saeed says is correct - the uniformer removes a tiny bit of brass after each firing. It is no more work to clean the primer pockets with the uniformer than to just use a primer pocket cleaner, and the uniformer makes all the primer pockets the same depth and square with the case head.
 
Posts: 563 | Registered: 03 January 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
I just rub my index finger over the seated primers----can instantly feel if the are fully seated or not!

Hip


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's amazing how sensitive a finger can be trained to be. And for this task, training is fast.
 
Posts: 759 | Location: Grants Pass, OR | Registered: 24 September 2012Reply With Quote
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When removing the primed case from the shell holder, I tilt it to look across the cartridge head. I can see if the primer is fully seated. Adds a fraction of a second to the loading process.

Dave
 
Posts: 1812 | Location: Seattle Washington, USA | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Have used a primer pocket uniformer as part of cleaning brass for years now. Interesting process!


_______________________
Dialogue is not double monologue. Truth is not threatened by investigation.

 
Posts: 4596 | Location: Clute, Texas | Registered: 12 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Ive never had that problem. but I have a piece of glass to set the primed case on and it works real well, but have not used it in a couple of years except to lay a piece of sandpaper on an rub a surface flat with my fingers on a piece of steel or wood...

I use only federal 210s and 215s and most all my handloads the primers is a slight tad deep in the hole, just a hair deep...

Ive noticed brass is not as well made to specs these days as it has been in years past...that im sure of..Ive purchased new brass that has loose primers, so that voids my take of primers show pressure, best to expect a extractor mark as the first sigh of pressure then tight bolt lift..but Ive experienced bolt lift that gave a false reading...It pays to approach reloading today with more caution than we did back in the day.....


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36453 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by B L O'Connor:
quote:
Originally posted by Hipshoot:
I just rub my index finger over the seated primers----can instantly feel if the are fully seated or not!

Hip


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's amazing how sensitive a finger can be trained to be. And for this task, training is fast.


^^^^^^^^This x2.
I've been feeling them this way for 50+ years of reloading rifle ammo.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1375 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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I have always used the feel to tell it they were seated also. Most of these were not that detectible with the finger tip. When it appeared that this was the problem, yes I could feel the difference. I'll run a straight edge across them every now and again!
 
Posts: 429 | Location: South Central Texas | Registered: 29 August 2014Reply With Quote
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The finger test is best at telling the bankers, shoe salesmen,doctors and lawyers from the callused hands of cowboys,carpenters, and mechanics that have less feeling in the fingers. A plate of glass is the best test.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36453 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Live Oak . . . .

You have (2) common and unrelated problems.


1) You are not resizing your cases properly.
2) You are not seating your primers properly.

First, I don't recommend Neck resizing, and with belted cases you will need some extra resizing at the pressure ring (just above the belt). This "extra" resizing is done with the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die.

Seating your primers correctly is easy if you use any quality primer seating tool. This usually means NOT using an auto fed, press mounted device. Developing a good feel for seating primers "all the way down" is required.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Florida | Registered: 14 June 2004Reply With Quote
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I think Innovative is correct in that you have 2 problems. I would recommend the Sinclair primer pocket uniformer to solve one of them. For sizing, I recommend using the Hornady headspace tool, and size the belted magnums as you would a 30-06 type case, and set the shoulder back only 0.001-0.002". Most of the time if you screw a full-length die against the shellholder you will oversize the brass and decrease case life. I have never needed to size the pressure ring, but it may be necessary if the chamber is a little large in relationship to the die. If you want to neck-size only, I recommend you buy a neck-sizer die. If you try to neck-size with a full-length sizer you may be pushing the shoulder forward and lengthening the headspace, causing hard chambering. Most companies sell a neck-sizer die separately and they are not very expensive. Let us know how it works out.
 
Posts: 563 | Registered: 03 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Resizing belted magnum calibers is different from non-belted calibers. I designed (and patented) the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die almost 20 years ago.

It is now used by almost 7,000 shooters. (Google it).

Primer seating is affected FAR more by seating primers "straight into the pocket" than by reaming the primer pocket larger.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Florida | Registered: 14 June 2004Reply With Quote
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I think it is important for a handloader to look at all the possible ways of solving a problem and do some experimenting to find the method that works for him. There are usually several ways to solve a problem, and usually no method works all the time. With the allowable manufacturing tolerances in chambers and dies, there can be many combinations that can cause problems.

First, the primer seating. I use the Sinclair primer pocket uniformer because it cuts the bottom of the primer pocket square with the case head, and to a uniform depth. It does not change the diameter of the primer pocket. With a uniform primer pocket depth, square with the case axis, you can seat the primer as straight an uniform as possible.

As far as the sizing goes, I still think sizing the case to headspace on the shoulder is best. I have loaded thousands of rounds for 8 belted magnum cartridges (including 3 7mm Rems.) in 14 different rifles and have had good luck that way. I get good accuracy and good case life. I think the secret is to do the minimum sizing necessary for reliable functioning so the brass is not overworked. If you are getting a bulge in front of the belt that affects feeding, then try the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die developed by Innovative. (I googled it and the users seem happy with the results.) I have never had a problem with cases bulging in front of the belt but now know there is a tool to deal with it if necessary. Headspacing on the shoulder has always worked for me, and I will continue using that method. Someday I may run into a rifle/die combination where it does not work, and if so I will try something different.

Live Oak, I hope you find a solution to your issues with your 7mm Rem.
 
Posts: 563 | Registered: 03 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Live Oak . . . .

Measure all of your fired cases just above the belt with the wide part of your caliper blades. Then measure a NEW case. Then measure this area on your cases that fit tight.

You will see the "whole story" very quickly. The Belted Magnum Collet Resizing die works 100% of the time to reduce case diameter at the pressure ring (within .001" or less).

Reliable chambering is never optional. You should net be able to "feel" the bolt close on a loaded round.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Florida | Registered: 14 June 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Innovative:
Resizing belted magnum calibers is different from non-belted calibers. I designed (and patented) the Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die almost 20 years ago.

It is now used by almost 7,000 shooters. (Google it).

Primer seating is affected FAR more by seating primers "straight into the pocket" than by reaming the primer pocket larger.


I've used your collet for years, and I've recommended them to many other handloaders. Using "partial" full length sizing and your collet does makes for better accuracy and much longer brass life.

If you reload belted mags, you need this tool and you need to partial full length size. I shoot for ..002 shoulder bump.

Great product!
 
Posts: 36760 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Shallow primer pockets was all the problem. Got a uniforming tool for Christmas and loaded some today. Back to just neck sizing. Most of the pockets were shallow on the outside, away from the flash hole. When I really forced them in the pocket the primer cup rolled slightly. Now I will check em all!
 
Posts: 429 | Location: South Central Texas | Registered: 29 August 2014Reply With Quote
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I have never had a problem with neck sizing belted cases, and I full length resize about every 5 or 6 firing, whenever I get one or two snugging up..brass last much longer when you load a belted case the same way as an unbelted case...I see a lot of folks et up with tech, and little hands on experience. the same folks that underload a round to half power and expound on how safe they are, but shooting their 300 win mag at 30-06 ballistics, just saying!! Roll Eyes sofa


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36453 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Atkinson . . . . . .
Neck sizing can be better than FL sizing for some shooters. However, not so if a handloader can accurately measure the "shoulder clearance" that handloads have in his particular chamber. I use the Digital Headspace Gauge to get - .001" clearance on ALL handloads.

NOTE : When handloads begin to fit tight, About 98% of the time (with belted calibers), it is due to case WIDTH at the pressure ring.

You're right about the performance of 300 Win Mag vs. 30-06. Handloads for a 300 Win Mag should perform like a 300 Win Mag.

Just because handloads are loaded light doesn't mean they are safe. Chamber clearance is just as important - especially with a semi auto.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Florida | Registered: 14 June 2004Reply With Quote
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