Not being able to get into the back shed for junk, I do my occasional reloading on a fold-out 'work-mate' saw-horse contraption. You might be amused by my recent adventures in that area.

For most of my life I've only reloaded one calibre but eventually branched out from the 338WM to 6.5x54 MS, 375 Win and recently the .45-70.

First, having screwed in the 338 resizing die, I lubed a shell and slipped it into the shell-holder and ran it up. Went in fine - but wouldn't come out again. Reverting to old ways, I had just assumed the shell-holder was my default belted-magnum one, not the even-bigger .45-70.

Fortunately, taking the ram almost to the top, I was able to slip the correct shell-holder, facing in, over the ram and case rim at the same time, and was back in business.

Then somehow, the last shell to be resized was either more difficult or I found a little too much strength, and split one of the boards on the stand. After failing to find substitute bench arrangements, I glued up the board (and spent hours the following day reinforcing the whole thing with a full-width, thick board beneath).

However, since the cases were resized, I went on to try my new case trimmer. After decades of making do with a file, this was the first lathe-type I'd used. A fitter-and-turner mate had made pilots for my odd-ball 'bore' sizes but I'd actually bought the .334-inch .338 pilot.

Perhaps my die's expander ball has worn down over 40 years because I couldn't get the case necks to fit over the pilot without lubing it and cranking them in.
My mate had warned me not to tighten the grub-screw too much on the pilots because, his at least, might be scored and give trouble later. Well, I wish I could have tightened the bought one more because it had a tendency to migrate out as the case was withdrawn, no matter how hard the screw was tightened, threatening to be lodged deep in the case neck. After a while, even the titanium-nitride cutter started to turn on the cutter shaft, for no good reason I can imagine.

I found locating the cutter shaft a PITA, because it needed to be as close to the spindle end as possible to locate the necks as the universal collet was tightened but, since the necks needed to be 'screwed' on to the pilot, not so far that the spindle lock pin was lodged in its longitudinal slot. The best place I found to tighten the collet was out of the slot, against a flat piece of steel protruding from that slot.

Though even when oiled, the fine-adjustment lock ring was a pain to turn, yet would not stay where I put it. I could get it just in the right place and tighten its grub-screw but, within a few cases, would soon be leaving them too long again.

Hopefully I'll have less trouble with my other calibres because their dies are newer. If anyone knows how to stop the cutter turning, I'd like to hear it.

There is every chance that the neck portion of your sizing die is undersized and it hasn't been noticed until the expander ball began to wear down (can be caused by not cleaning the inside of the fired case necks-over time it can be abrasive to the expander ball).
There is little need to size the cases before you trim to length (forcing you to wind the case necks onto the pilot with some difficulty), a small amount of tolerance between pilot and case neck will make little if any change in final trim length if any and it datums off the cutter face and case head in the collet.
lf the grub screw is failing to hold the pilot, you can file a small flat spot on it's shank and time this up inside the shaft to assist in stopping it winding off.
How many firing has the brass had? as work hardened necks can be a bugger for causing a lot of what you may be experiencing.
Or, take the whole lot round to Gryphon's and just say "Hay Mate!.. Do us a favour!!"

Thanks Rats ,
Yes, I'll take your suggestions on board. I'm wondering now how the bullets have managed to penetrate the narrower neck until now.

The brass won't have been used more than two or three times at most. Because the Sako chamber seems quite long and I have tended over recent years to full-length resize to guard against recycling difficulties if a big stag takes off in front of me, premature split necks are not unkown. This last lot I left a little longer, to try to slow down that process.

lt can be surprising how the radius on flat base bullets will allow them to seat in tight necked cases, and show no signs of difficulty until an ogive or two start to show seating stem rings.
Depending on make/age of some brass they can start to split rather fast (FC tends to work harden after 2-3 firings.. their .308win match clone go out of true and show this very quickly if not annealed every 2-3 loadings)
l had a new Sellier and Bellot .222rem case split on it's first firing last wwekend (between the web and shoulder) which the chrono showed as a dramatic velocity drop before l opened the chamber to eject the then spend case, so daft stuff happens all the time.

lt's all fun and games

Yes, I suppose I should anneal some of these cases when they're empty. I just reloaded enough to last two or three years, so that might not be for a while.

I think Murphey has been messing around with you AND me. So far in the last two days I've bent my Hornady 25-06 decapping rod, a replacement decapping pin from a 7-08 sizer and 2 decapping pins from a 375 Ruger and 416 Taylor...by looking the wrong way at the wrong time.

At least my 25-06 is showing signs of doing well with 4451 and Nosler 100 BT's. This is a SS barrel from a Sav AXIS I bought when they AXIS first came out. The stock was so flimsy it would flop around just by getting a good hold on it. I put a Boyd's stock in it and turned it into a 375 JD...that barrel shoots very nice groups with 260 Parts and the Boyd's stock and now with the 25-06 barrel back on it.

Some days are diamonds and some days are stone.

Good Hunting

I have had the same problem with my Lyman trimmer and tight fitting pilots.

You need to measure the pilots diameter.

You need to measure the expanders diameter.

Your case necks may be springing back more after sizing.

Meaning the simple fix is to polish the pilot down until it fits the inside neck diameter.

I may consider getting my gunsmith mate to make me another .338 pilot, another thou or three smaller. He's offered to do it already.

Meanwhile, I think I will make some effort to lubricate the expander balls on the other calibres' dies so they don't wear down, too. I wonder if lubricant on a cotton bud rubbed on to the ball itself or inside case shoulders might work better than plunging the neck deep into an over-oiled pad.

Have you tried Imperial Dry Neck Lube? My .225 Win brass seems quite thick and was resistant to expanding once the neck is down-sized (the expanding button seemed to catch in the neck). This Dry Neck Lube made a noticeable difference. It might work for you and it's more convenient than wet lube, IMO.

Thanks BL, I'll see if Midway Australia imports it. Looking at the side ads on their US site, is one of those brushes Redding furnish with their case trimmers intended to apply neck lube?

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Thanks BL, I'll see if Midway Australia imports it. Looking at the side ads on their US site, is one of those brushes Redding furnish with their case trimmers intended to apply neck lube?

I don't know, but you don't need a brush if you get the media/lube combination kit. (You can buy each - media and lube - separately.)

Here's how it works and how I do it (it sounds far more complicated than it is):

The media consists of tiny ceramic balls in their own container. You add a little of the lube to the media container, place the cap on the media-containing-lube container and gently shake it a few times to evenly distribute the lube within.

I then replace the cap on the lube and set it aside, and remove the cap on the mixture of lube and media. (There's a little trial and error in getting enough vs too much lube into the media container, but that's not a big deal at all. Your press will tell you when you have enough.)

I have a system that works for me: Since I'm right-handed, I arrange my cases and lube/media to the left of my press (from left to right cases, the media/lube and the press).

I take a case, dip its neck into the media/lube and then size the case, moving it to a bin on the right side of my press. (There's no reason you couldn't lube all your necks before sizing them.)

Bitter experience taught me you don't want to inadvertently upset an uncapped media/lube container. Or a media container without lube.

The only down side of this is that the graphite is a tad messy, but it's nothing to wipe it off case necks with a paper towel.

I hope this works for you. It did help me.

I see Midway seem to stock the lube here but maybe not the media.

Could you put the lube on some other way, such as on the stem side of a cotton bud head?

I'm sure you can. But IMO the media would make its application more convenient. You could probably just dip the first couple of millimeters of the neck into the lube and it'd work fine. But it would be messy, I think.

Might be worth contacting them and seeing what they have to say.

I use as nylon cleaning brush and Imperial or Hornady wax lube to lube the inside of the case mouth...just touch your finger to the wax, rub ypur fingers together and then rub the brush...I lube 3-5 cases before redoing it...you can also lube the case the same way.

Case necks THICKEN after a few firings and can cause your problem so neck turning helps...I use Lee case trimmers when available, Sinclair/Wilson case trimmer/holder or Forester case trimmers for the most part but I have several other brands and types.

There is A WIDE VARIATION in case necks, neck sizers, chambers, pilots etc...item tolerances usually follow "standard" SAMMI specs which means I have a constant battle between them all and many times end up customizing one or more of these variable items for each caliber.

I got a little tight when installing the barrel on my 25-06 initially, reset it again but still too tight for my Hornady and RCBS sizer dies so I turned 0.003" off a shell holder and the same off the bottom of the Hornady die. The button expander on the Hornady die is to small for the Lee case trimmer so I have to run the case over a slightly oversized Sinclair expander pilot so it will work in the Lee trimmer firmly. The RCBS die button is slightly larger than the Lee trimmer guide but I haven't yet turn that die down...today maybe.

You can always chuck a button/pilot in a drill motor and use fine sandpaper/emory cloth on a file to take of a dew tenths to get a pilor/button to work...I've done it many times...and on a brass rod to polish out a sizer die to fit a chamber better.

What I've done to the shell holder and dies base is STILL within SAMMI specs and "go" gauge.

Good Hunting

Thanks guys, food for thought indeed.

Your idea of taking the pilot down in a drill attracts me, NONAGONAGIN, as I've used a one as an ersatz lathe several times over the years.

However, since the .334" is the only factory pilot I've got, I might leave it for posterity and ask my mate to make a smaller one to use with my worn expander.

Do neck turners take down the outside or the inside of the case? I guess with my diminished expander, I'm lucky to get the bullets to go in at all.

I must remember to give a couple more turns with the deburring tool, on the inside, to help in this regard.

Brownells, Midway and Sinclair online have info on neck turners and visuals...you can do both inside and outside turning...I prefer outside on a mandral.

All the button expanders I've used are hardened and are very hard to even polish down with emory paper so you might just need another button of the right size to make things easier.

Sinclair also has other tools for brass resizing that I use as an adjunct to "normal" sizing.

Good Hunting

Thanks for that, NONAGONAGIN, but as a shoestring reloader I might try to do without the neck turner. I saw a head turner in the street this morning - they're even more expensive to keep

you actually want your ID of the case neck to be more like 336.
you only need .002 neck tension unless your loading 105% powder amounts.
if the expander ball on the die set is 334 it's wrong.
336 with a 334 cutter pilot would make your life a lot easier.

I use a bore mop to put lube inside my case necks.

Thanks Lamar, can new decapper/expanders be got for old RCBS dies? Maybe I should at least try to get one in normal spec.

Yeah...whiplash is always a possibility where head turners are abundant...AND rear-enders. Neck turning is only for the picky, accuracy seeking ones anyway...hardly needed for minute-of-eland accuracy and can be detrimental for factory chambers.

I've had two 6mm Rems with oversized necks, 0.278" and 0.279" instead of "normal" 0.276", one factory and one custom barrel/custom chamber and had to neck down/cut down '06 cases to get thick enough case walls to get nice chamber fitting cases...then neck turn to get rid of the lopsidedness due to the mucking around.

Everyone has different requirements and needs...60 some years of wildcatting and shooting and I have more tools than a pack of wild dogs has fleas.

Good Hunting

Thanks guys, I'm off hunting for four days, so may miss further contributions for while.

I think the only balls that don't swap across is the headed pin and not headed pin types.
but the entire stem will just screw in.
so the worst that happens is you just order the entire rod and ball assembly, which is what I would do anyway.

Thanks, I might look into it. Not being a gun part, I might even be able to import one.