A question for you guys.

A friend of mine took some clients hunting water buff and one guy was using a 9.3x62 mauser with barnes X bullets(not sure of weight). Anyway the bullets shot at buff and scrub bulls all keyholed, penetration was bad and bullet upset was non-existent, any thoughts on the cause?
I'm interested in this as I was going to use X bullets in my 6.5x55 and 8x57.
What do you all reckon!
Bakes

This is going to be tough to diagnose. The rifling twist could be too slow for that bullet length, the bullet could be the wrong diameter for the barrel. The velocity could be off due the old ammo, contaminated powder. Could be the barrel is shot out or very dirty.
And last and not least Grimlins!
Jim

Bakes,

If the gun shot fine with other bullets before, then I would imagine that the X bulleta are not stabilized enough in the barrel. He might cure this problem by going to a lighter bullet.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

Bakes
A question!
How do the water buffalos in your neck of the woods compare to the buff in Africa?
Are they as large and tough?
What are the usual calibers used to drop them?
Jim

I tried some of the Barnes X bullets about 5 years ago. Rifles were both brand new. Rifle #1 was Browning 30-06 and # 2 was Remington 700 Classic in 300 Weatherby. Bullet weight was 130 grains and both rifles had 1/10 twist. Thought I could get the best of both worlds, penetration and high velocity. Both rifles keyholed. The bullets passed thru a 50 yd. target sideways. I wrote Barnes and they said trouble was seating depth, but at that point I switched to Sierra 165 HPBTs and both rifles will shoot less than an inch.

Jim
Having never shot a water buff or African buff (I have a water buff/scrub bull hunt line up in the next couple of months)I'll have to answer the question with the words of Tony Twidale, my guiding mate. Tony said that the reputation of water buff as a tough beast that charges without provocation has been spread by some guides to add some excitment and adrenaline to the hunt, altough they will charge if they feel cornered or wounded. He said scrub bull are meaner, tougher and will charge at the drop of a hat. Tony has two South African hunters that hunt with him every year for water buff and scrub bulls and they rate the scrub bulls very highly.
As to calibres, Tony uses a .300 Winchester Mag and a .375 H&H. but every thing from 3006 up has been used. One rifle and calibre that was a favorite with the old pro buff shooters, shooting off horse back was the single shot Martini Henry in .303.
The largest calibre I have is a 8x57 mauser, I think a good 200gr bullet might do alright in this calibre.
Bakes

Jim
Something happened with my reply so I'll try again.

I havn't shot any buff yet ( I have a hunt line up in the next couple of months) so I'll answer your qusetion in the words of Tony Twidale, my guiding mate. Tony said that the reputation of charging, cranky water buff has been spread by some guides to add some excitment and adrenaline to the hunt, although they will charge if they are wounded or feel cornered. Tony said that in general scrub bulls are meaner and tougher to put down and they will charge at the drop of a hat. Tony has two South African hunters that hunt with him every year and they rate the scrub bull very highly.
As to calibres, Tony uses a .300 Winchester mag and a .375H&H but every thing from 30/06 and up has been used. A favorite with the old pro shooters shooting from horse back was the Martini Henry in .303.
The largest calibre I own is a 8x57 mauser, I think a good 200gr bullet might do alright.
Bakes

Bakes
Thanks for the reply. I'm guessing that the water buff and scrub bulls are about the same size and as bullet proof as our bison/buffalo.
A few tens of millions of our bison got dropped with the old lead bullet calibers, so it's not surprising that the old time hunters, down there, used what would be considered small calibers.
I'm a lead bullet fan, because I'm cheap and I enjoy this rather arcane alchemy of metalurgy and animal innards. Dancing around the fire, beating on drums with the odd sacrificial virgin helps.
Any way I would love to find some one with experience with alloy bullets and successful hunts for large [around a ton in weight] varmits. Loud mouth politians don't count. Come to think of it, hearing from someone who was not successful, but had long legs and tree climbing ability would be useful also.
Please keep us informed on the success of your hunt.

Jim

Bakes,

I am having trouble getting a handle on the situation you presented.

Did your friend not know his bullets were keyholing because he had never fired them at a target for zero, or he had zeroed them, knew they were keyholing and decided to hunt buffalo anyway. In either case, as you described it, it is incredibly cavalier behavior to be that unprepared and naive when hunting a very tough animal.

Hunting is about proper preparation. You have described a situation where the bullets may have failed, but the failure is mostly with the hunter.

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Warren Jensen

Warren@lostriverballistic.com
lostriverballistic.com

Amen to Warren.Preparation has no equal.I would think,that when putting up a lots of money for paid hunts,it best serves one to be prepare,and not spoil what could be a great hunt.
1geejay
http://www.shooting-hunting.com

Warren
I could not agree with you more!
When Tony told me about his clients problem I ask Tony if the client had sighted the rifle in before comming on the trip. Tony offers his clients a chance to sight rifles in before a hunt, perhaps the guy in question said in typical Aussie fashion "Nah she'll be right"
I myself like everything to be right, otherwise I don't feel comfortable. But not everybodys like that I suppose.
Bakes