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Silencer On 308? Winchester
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We made a silencer in a new design, and installed it on a brand new Sako rifle.

I thought I would try a few shots in it before closing the range this evening.

9 grains of HERCO and the Sierra 168 MK gave us a velocity of 1120 fps.

Sadly, they were key holing.

Tried 8.5 grains with Rubright 135 grain bullets.

Got roughly the same velocity - I just looked but cannot remember the exact figure, will post tomorrow.

3 shots were roughly an inch.

Best of all the sound is very much reduced.

Will try more loads tomorrow and will post.


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Posts: 66744 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Here are our results.

Rifle is a Sako 85 with a 24 inch barrel.

3 shot groups 100 yards

135 Rubright 8.5 Herco 1172 fps 0.785

150 Berger 8.5 Herco 1063 fps 1.545
9.0 Herco. 1152 fps 1.271
9.5 HS6 1127 fps 0.753
10.0 HS6 1220 fps 0.519


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Posts: 66744 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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thanks for posting what is the twist rate
 
Posts: 19310 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I have no idea but I think it is rather slow.

168 at these velocities were key holing.

I think we got lucky with this rifle.

We have had others were we could not manage to get any groups smaller than 1.5 inches.

Trouble with trying to develop subsonic loads is that one is very restricted to a very narrow margin, velocity wise.

We built a 221 Fireball which would shoot 0.25 inch groups at subsonic velocities.

A friend uses it for culling.

He says he prefers it to using a 22 WMR which he used before.


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Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 66744 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Saeed, about 10 years ago--pre-300 Blackout- I had a 300 Whisper built on a Rem 700X action with a 1:8 Lilja barrel with a Gemtech can.
Originally used 250 gr Sierra (no longer avaliable) then went to 240 gr Sierra for exceptional , I thought, subsonic accuracy. Kept it under 1100 fps mostly using H110, 4227 and Lil'Gun Used mostly for fun but with the right bullets, mainly Lehigh, culling deer.
All shots under 100 yards mostly because that is all I needed to reach out to the deer and partially due to the rainbow arc much past 125 or more .

Don't remember seeing the twist on your barrel but just maybe a bit too slow?

I do spin the can on the "regular" 308 and others but mainly to reduce the boom and not the crack since I don't go subsonic except for the Whisper.

I will follow your adventures to see how you fare.

Best wishes,
Gary
 
Posts: 201 | Registered: 30 August 2005Reply With Quote
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Do you feel there is an advantage in getting a bullet to an animal quietly instead of getting it there three times faster than the sound of the shot with six times the energy? If an animal is dead before it hears a shot that works as well or better than an animal not hearing the shot that kills it.

I don't see the point unless you think you might have to shoot multiple times from the same position. Wipe out a flock of hogs, I guess? I always try for one good shot. I can only drag one deer at a time.

I guess I'm old school but suppressors and silencers that require sub-sonic ammo make no sense to me. But I'm new here and maybe I missed that concept.
 
Posts: 66 | Location: Port Crane, NY | Registered: 11 February 2018Reply With Quote
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I do not hunt with a silencer.

WE did this as fun project for a silencer we designed and built ourselves.


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Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 66744 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
I guess I'm old school but suppressors and silencers that require sub-sonic ammo make no sense to me. But I'm new here and maybe I missed that concept.


I am old school I like destroying my hearing with every shot.

HUH what did you say, What brand hearing aid do you use HUH what brand was that.

The GOA of 34 one of the worst heath care decisions by the US government.

Millions have lost their hearing because of it.
 
Posts: 19310 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Well IIRC, supersonic rounds out of a suppressor are not nearly as quiet as sub-sonic rounds.

There is also the culling application where PHs in Africa do not want the animals to associate gunfire with vehicles.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10043 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Charlie,
Not looking to get into an argument with you as I agree in principal, however, where I live used to be RURAL and over the past 45 years it has become less so and unfortunately the incoming populace is city bred and move to the country because of lower land prices and don't bring country values nor acceptance of things as they were done before THEY arrived.
Many contentious discussions about "smell" of cow manure, "waste" hay that fell off the wagon being transported between fields and windblown to the road in front of their McMansions or a bawling calf being weaned from momma--yup, actually had the sheriff come to apologize on that one but said he had to respond to the call.
So, a quiet shot that takes the deer is a plus.
No p----d off neighbors, deer in freezer, all is good. Never a need to take an iffy shot-wait until the right one presents itself and all is good.
Just explaining how things are where I am and not advocating this for all.
Hope you can understand

Gary
 
Posts: 201 | Registered: 30 August 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of onespeedbiker
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quote:
Originally posted by Charlie P.(NY):
Do you feel there is an advantage in getting a bullet to an animal quietly instead of getting it there three times faster than the sound of the shot with six times the energy? If an animal is dead before it hears a shot that works as well or better than an animal not hearing the shot that kills it.

I don't see the point unless you think you might have to shoot multiple times from the same position. Wipe out a flock of hogs, I guess? I always try for one good shot. I can only drag one deer at a time.

I guess I'm old school but suppressors and silencers that require sub-sonic ammo make no sense to me. But I'm new here and maybe I missed that concept.
I agree, but how about the use of a suppressor with high powered ammo (supersonic). While the bullet will break the sound barrier, a suppressor can still decrease the report enough to shoot without hearing protection. http://www.silencerresearch.co...h_powered_rifles.htm
 
Posts: 33 | Registered: 23 December 2017Reply With Quote
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We don't use suppression widely in the uk to achieve subsonic. It's to protect our hearing.
The spinoff is tighter groups,less recoil and probably a change in poi and we get to play with subsonic using for example trail boss Wink. as some ranges are only insured for pistol loads and bp. These powders reduce the fbr to acceptable velocities safely.

Saeed's post, is one of his many expriments and trials he posts the outcome of for us to enjoy. This time in using subsonic and suppression.

In Scotland the minimum (deer load)is 2,450 FPS and therefore no way of avoiding the crack,but hey it certainly tames that without the need for ear muffs.

Modern technology has reduced the 'bulk' of hearing protection to a minimum so we can barely remember they are there. The same applies to moderators,nice and lightweight for stalking,keep the muffs for the range where you have no control over the noise level around you. Yes I'm 60% down on hearing but none of my kids,all into music,are allowed anywhere near a rifle without either or both preferably.jc




 
Posts: 1138 | Registered: 24 September 2011Reply With Quote
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In Sweden many use suppressors to hunt with regular speed hunting ammo. It saves your and your dogs ears its still noicy at 130-140dec. Subsonics are illegal to use.
 
Posts: 3611 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 02 May 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Subsonics are illegal to use.

Illegal due to lack of noise or illegal due to lack of energy?
 
Posts: 13214 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I find the subsonic with a suppressor very handy at night shooting coyotes around livestock. Beyond that and a few badgers, I don't know what else I would use it for.
 
Posts: 1049 | Location: oregon | Registered: 20 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Saeed

Do you find Herco position sensative?!
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Misplaced Yorkshireman | Registered: 21 March 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Ratwhiskers:
Saeed

Do you find Herco position sensative?!


I have not found any powder position sensitive.

At least I have not noticed it anyway.

We just finished a 223 with a silencer.

Funny enough we could not get the velocity down below 1500 FPS without the bullets keyholing.

But, the man we built it for was very happy with 1500 FPS.

It sounds like a relatively quiet air rifle when fired outside.


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Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 66744 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Thank you Saeed.

l'm currently developing loads for a 6x222rem, with at least one of the rounds being subsonic.
l have a company looking to produce a 95grn gas checked soft cast for me to try (they've not done a 6mm before and l will be giving feedback on my results) as l would like to produce something resembling a .22 rimfire on steroids.
l'm hoping that a twist rate of 1-8" will be sufficient to stabilise what l have to try.... 85grn Partitions/Sierra SP's/95grn Cast.
An issue is that they no longer allow the importation of IMR Trail Boss, so l will be looking at alternatives such as Blue Dot/5744/Tin Star etc...

Here's to hoping.
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Misplaced Yorkshireman | Registered: 21 March 2011Reply With Quote
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"Illegal due to lack of noise or illegal due to lack of energy?"

Lack of noise, illegal if they are used with a soundmoderator. Soundmoderators are only legal for hunting in calibers larger than ~222rem/3,2g 800j.
 
Posts: 3611 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 02 May 2009Reply With Quote
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That's a shame, as you may be missing out on potential benefits such as gallery rifle and large vermin control in populated areas.
The 300lbk is becoming popular here and l have been running as suppressed .308win for some time.
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Misplaced Yorkshireman | Registered: 21 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Some county(kommun) employed pestcontrol hunters are allowed to use silenced ,22lr ifles or pellet rifles.

The rules for hunting biggame makes 300blk illegal for game bigger than roedeer, 308w are popular for hunting with and without soundmoderator. AR15s are not legal for hunting (just competition) only civilian constructions semiautos as Browning shorttrack, Sauer 303.
 
Posts: 3611 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 02 May 2009Reply With Quote
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Same here with Subsonic anything if the calibre/energy levels do not meet requirements, l know .338 with heavy bullets just tips above the limit.
l don't know anyone who doesn't use a moderator on a .22r/f these days unless it's a target rifle.
l'm the "poster boy" for moderators on rifles as a club member fired a .50cal next to my head while l was changing a break for my 'can'. He should have been further along the line with the rest of the .50's, and l lost 70%+ of the hearing in my left ear instantly.... Those Styr muzzle breaks are LOUD!!! where a B+T 'Can' would have made no difference to me (l had both plugs and can's on at the time and it made no difference at 18").
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Misplaced Yorkshireman | Registered: 21 March 2011Reply With Quote
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I use trailboss powder in my .308 subsonic ammo. I'd try this powder if you can access some.
 
Posts: 1557 | Location: Texas | Registered: 26 July 2003Reply With Quote
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M16
l have two tubs in stock, but that's all l'll be getting as those EU A'holes have banned it's importation due to claims its toxic..... lf they don't want to handle it fine, but leave the rest of us alone.... That's why l voted to leave.
 
Posts: 210 | Location: Misplaced Yorkshireman | Registered: 21 March 2011Reply With Quote
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