I found this on the accurate shooter website. Different outfit than ours.

Bottom line: The scale can load accurately to one kernel of powder, without needing a $1,500.00 lab scale

Accurized RCBS 10-10 Scale

For my use and that's for hunting loads I find the powder measure is as accurate as can be. I set it with my RCBS scale..Fine tuning may sound great but is it practical or even needed, not for me.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
I found this on the accurate shooter website. Different outfit than ours.

Bottom line: The scale can load accurately to one kernel of powder, without needing a $1,500.00 lab scale

Accurized RCBS 10-10 Scale

Bottom line ?

Do you really need accuracy to one kernel of powder ?

I think not.

he also never mentions HOW he fine tunes em. i'm not interested in his trade secrets but a general explaination would be good. however i'm also not concerned about one grain of powder.

I suppose he has a set of weights, I don't know how else you can fine tune a set of scales..Weights are not expensive and they work fine.

Seems to me there is a vid on You Tube about tuning them. Maybe it's mentally worth it for top end 1000yd stuff or benchrest who want bugholes at all ranges, but the bulk of shooters wouldn't likely be able to notice the difference. Way too many other variables involved, that will override or negate that effort.

Cheap man's way of calibration. Cut off 2 tbs. of a stick of butter to equal an ounce. The butter mfgs. are very precise.... Just do it quick.

Main thing is to make sure everything is clean and nothing is loose, then to make sure the pan shows a zero weight when set-up. If not use a razor blade to shave little pieces of soft lead shot placing it into the pan until you get it to zero. If you have to remove weight to zero you'll have to do that first, by removing the screw at the bottom of basket hanger and removing one piece of shot. Once scale is zeroed put what shot it takes to zero in the little screw-on pan and tighten it back in place. Double check zero, and then using different check-weights check to make sure each of those reads correct.

The rattling you hear in that hanging basket is just lead shot and is what is used to calibrate scale. Add or remove little pieces to zero if its slightly off.

Also make sure wire hanger lets basket hang pretty centered underneath its pivot point on beam. Pan should hang centered and level, you can bend the wire slightly if its been slightly bent out of shape from something.

Phil

I have a Lyman M5 tuned by Scott Parker. It is responsive to one kernel of extruded powder. It is linear and reproducible and its damping is smooth and fast.

I love it.

Do I need it? Nah. Do I need more than a dozen rifles? Nah. Do I need 20 handguns? Of course not!

But they all give me pleasure.

I have two Scott Parker tuned scales, they are very nice. Yes i do need accuracy to one kernel.
I also have a very high end very expensive scale, it auto throws the charges to one kernel accuracy. i will generally find a load with the balance beam scale then when loading in large amounts use the auto set up. It is much faster and just as accurate and my hands are free to seat bullets as it throws next load.

I also have a lyman M5 that is very old and mint condition, it was Scott Parker accurate from the get go.

I find it odd for anyone who reloads to say they dont need the utmost accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Abbispa:
I have two Scott Parker tuned scales, they are very nice. Yes i do need accuracy to one kernel.
I also have a very high end very expensive scale, it auto throws the charges to one kernel accuracy. i will generally find a load with the balance beam scale then when loading in large amounts use the auto set up. It is much faster and just as accurate and my hands are free to seat bullets as it throws next load.

I also have a lyman M5 that is very old and mint condition, it was Scott Parker accurate from the get go.

I find it odd for anyone who reloads to say they dont need the utmost accuracy.

Tell us why you need accuracy to one kernel.

Why do i need single kernel accuracy?

Really i just expect that because i can achieve it.
I expect all my handloads to have single digit extreme spreads.
I shoot a variety of different long range rifle matches such as PRS and NRL. I will occasionally shoot in a local bench rest poker type match, which also requires extreme accuracy.

Some shooters reload to shoot, some shoot so they can reload.

Hundreds of big game animals 10's thousands of varmint's.

Say I don't need that kind of accuracy from my powder scale.

For those who want it go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Hundreds of big game animals 10's thousands of varmint's.

Say I don't need that kind of accuracy from my powder scale.

For those who want it go for it.

I use competition to improve my shooting in the field. I also feel every anaimal i shoot at deserves my very best effort.
I also enjoy competing and never go in half-assed. If i miss on a varmint no harm no foul. If i miss in competition i never get the chance to make that shot again. If i place a poor shot on a big game animal who knows what the consequences could be.

Soooooo, i want that kind of accuracy, and ill keep going for it.

I have a Redding scale that I had to fix because every time I moved the pan, it would give me a different reading. It's very simple to do and doesn't take much time, but it will show when you add just one kernal of powder.

The scale needs to be level in order to work correctly which should be obvious, so I set my scale on a platform large enough to set the scale on that has been leveled first. I use a case for a set of 6" Depth Mics. Then I use a small paint brush to clean any dust out of the blade pivot.

The biggest problem with this scale, and others I suspect, is in the pan and it's hangar. The hanger on mine wasn't flat, and it didn't hold the pan level. I use a small circular bubble level for this btw. Fortunately, the hanger is fairly soft so you can bend and form it until it lays flat. The flat plate the pan sits on was also cup-shaped, so I took a soft mallet and tapped on it until it was flat. Put it all back together and set the level on the plate to make sure that it's sitting level as well by tweaking the hangar.

My scale now works perfectly. It will weigh the same thing no matter where you put the pan on, is sensitive enough to see when you add a kernal of powder, and is totally repeatable.

Just as a safety note, I usually do one of two different things to make sure my charge weights are correct. First, I can use my check weight set to get the scale at the correct reading of charge weights I'm going to be using. Second, I have a small Pact digital to recheck my weight after it has been set on the scale. The reason I do this is because on more than one occasion I had the blade for the balance set in the wrong spot and was 5 grains over or under. Neither of which is good.

I really like the redding scale because it has the longest balance bar. I believe it makes it more sensitive. This one was also gone thru by the afore mentioned Mr. Parker.

Scales tune up generally involves weight being added into the base of the module to anchor it firmly to the bench when it's being used. Then the front adjusting stem is removed and either a ball baring inserted into it to allow it to ride smoothly or a 90'degree tip being cut to stop it from skidding on the surface of what it's sitting on.
The final bit of the jigsaw is to remove the two agate blocks and polish their outsides and the raceways they sit into, a squirt of dry graphite powder before replacing them helps them not to bind.

l added a 70mm spin wheel to the riser rod to help tune in when l'm setting up for a new load.
The really important other point to remember is to place the scale on a level and stable surface when in use.

lt really isn't rocket science, once the principle is understood.

Wish to heaven I had someone who could diagnose my 10-10's problem. It is apparently in pristine condition. Everything sets up nicely. Regardless how I use the balancing screw, the needle comes nowhere close to "zero." Regardless how severely I tilt the base, scale will still not get in the same city as "zero." I have Lyman's check weights, but until I fix the problem, these are just hunks of metal.

I believe whatever my difficulty, its fix will probably be so obvious an adjustment that I will cringe with embarrassment.

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
Wish to heaven I had someone who could diagnose my 10-10's problem. It is apparently in pristine condition. Everything sets up nicely. Regardless how I use the balancing screw, the needle comes nowhere close to "zero." Regardless how severely I tilt the base, scale will still not get in the same city as "zero." I have Lyman's check weights, but until I fix the problem, these are just hunks of metal.

I believe whatever my difficulty, its fix will probably be so obvious an adjustment that I will cringe with embarrassment.

Try Scott Parker.

His address is: 420 Holtby Road, Bakersfield, CA 93304. He can be reached through his Facebook link (above) or at (661) 364-1199.

He does fantastic work at fair prices. The downside is he's sometimes hard to contact.

quote:

he also never mentions HOW he fine tunes em. i'm not interested in his trade secrets but a general explaination would be good. however i'm also not concerned about one grain of powder.

1 grain of powder might make a difference in say a 223 rem. but may not make a difference say a 270 / 30-06 I try to stay within 1/2 grain in 308 7-08 3/4 to 1 grain in 30-06 size stuff

Get a Belding & Mull powder measure and once your charge is set, it will consistently deliver.

quote:

I have two Scott Parker tuned scales, they are very nice. Yes i do need accuracy to one kernel.

,
tell us, is that 1 kernel of long steam or short cut powder, I have never seen a rifle change accuracy with just 1 kernel

quote:

Originally posted by vines:

quote:

I have two Scott Parker tuned scales, they are very nice. Yes i do need accuracy to one kernel.

,
tell us, is that 1 kernel of long steam or short cut powder, I have never seen a rifle change accuracy with just 1 kernel

Neither have I, and never will.

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
Wish to heaven I had someone who could diagnose my 10-10's problem. It is apparently in pristine condition. Everything sets up nicely. Regardless how I use the balancing screw, the needle comes nowhere close to "zero." Regardless how severely I tilt the base, scale will still not get in the same city as "zero." I have Lyman's check weights, but until I fix the problem, these are just hunks of metal.

I believe whatever my difficulty, its fix will probably be so obvious an adjustment that I will cringe with embarrassment.

Maybe its not the workings of the machine. Maybe the scale itself is not attached correctly.

I shoot big groups and it's all due to one kernel of corn, I mean powder. How do you isolate ANY variation to a kernel of powder? Cudda been the bullet was .1 grain different??? Some are just more precise than me to know it was a kernel of powder.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

How do you isolate ANY variation to a kernel of powder?

You don't. Because you can't.

And the bigger the cartridge the less it matters as a % of the whole charge...
Why try to take a BR rifle into the woods... When Bambi twitches you're already an inch from the V-Bull without even pulling the trigger...
All anyone is trying to do is to add confidence, by making the load charge and finished cartridge as accurate as possible for when that one shot must be taken.

i agree. for me, it would be more of a confidence builder than anything else. which is a valid use of it.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

How do you isolate ANY variation to a kernel of powder?

You don't. Because you can't.

Well, you could by sitting there all day counting the individual kernels of powder

For years and still seen from time to time,many bench resters use a scoop..

I use a powder measure, powders that almost fill the case, depending on bullet, and mostly tap check by eye sight. I double checked this procedure many many times, and my old scale, used with the repeatability is never off a half grain, mostly dead on..Thats good enough for hunting, in fact up to half a grain, sometimes much more the POI seldom changes at all..but being one with your scale (old hippie proverb as I recall) over time certainly helps!

I see so many young handloaders these days the toss their loads with a scale then meticulously weigh each load on the scale and two hours later they carefully put eacn round in the box one at a time, I have no problem with that, just seems over the top to me...If one uses a ball powder or small grained powder that does not stack a measure is very accurate, large grain powder like the 4350s and 4831 cut grains and are not accurate and may need to be weighed depending on the reloaders skill with a measure, but even those will measure within two or three tenths of a grain, and even at half a grain, nothing changes as far as accuracy concerned...None of the above applies to pistol powders and powders that do not fill a case to at least shoulder level or thereabouts..H414,WW-760, CFE223, RL-22, 19, 17, 25 and others are a boon to the reloader.

Take your shot, but that's my story and Im sticking to it..

quote:

Originally posted by lindy2:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:

How do you isolate ANY variation to a kernel of powder?

You don't. Because you can't.

Well, you could by sitting there all day counting the individual kernels of powder

Are the kernels light or full bird ?

I think I'd rather watch the grass grow. Or paint dry.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For years and still seen from time to time,many bench resters use a scoop..

I use a powder measure, powders that almost fill the case, depending on bullet, and mostly tap check by eye sight. I double checked this procedure many many times, and my old scale, used with the repeatability is never off a half grain, mostly dead on..Thats good enough for hunting, in fact up to half a grain, sometimes much more the POI seldom changes at all..but being one with your scale (old hippie proverb as I recall) over time certainly helps!

I see so many young handloaders these days the toss their loads with a scale then meticulously weigh each load on the scale and two hours later they carefully put eacn round in the box one at a time, I have no problem with that, just seems over the top to me...If one uses a ball powder or small grained powder that does not stack a measure is very accurate, large grain powder like the 4350s and 4831 cut grains and are not accurate and may need to be weighed depending on the reloaders skill with a measure, but even those will measure within two or three tenths of a grain, and even at half a grain, nothing changes as far as accuracy concerned...None of the above applies to pistol powders and powders that do not fill a case to at least shoulder level or thereabouts..H414,WW-760, CFE223, RL-22, 19, 17, 25 and others are a boon to the reloader.

Take your shot, but that's my story and Im sticking to it..

I agree. I have an RCBS and a BR30 Redding measure, and must say when using spherical powders, it throws dead nuts on. Stick powder like H1000 and Retumbo can be off by up to half a grain, so I weigh them but throwing a charge close then trickling in. Might sound like a lot of work, but case prep takes longer than weighing charges.