I have a very nice underlever in 500 3" and would like to find some starting loads for nitro for black. I don't have access to Graham Wrights book at the moment. Any help would be much appreciated.
Frank

wow Frank, Thats a really nice lookin 500?
Is it Searcy?
I have some old load data at home for black, Ill look and see if it has any loads / Is it a 500 3" nitro express?
Dave

Thank you Dave. It was built for a gentleman in India and has the name
"P.Orr and Sons" stamped on it.
Here are the only proofs on it. It weighs under 10 lbs which is far too light for a full blown nitro rifle.
Yes it is also marked 500 Eley on the barrels.
Frank

Iam not familar with p orr& son.
When i get home in the morning ill get the info and post it for you, I believe the data is for paper patch 480gr bullets, and there may be something there for the .500 and larger.
Dave

Frank

The formula is 40 to 45% of the weight of the black powder charge, using IMR 4198, and a compressed filler of dacron.

Hi Frank:

Long time, no see. Too busy for the Texas crowd, huh?

The .500 BPE typically used 136 grains black and a 340 or 440 grain paper patched lead bullet, not jacketed. The rough rule of thumb for NFB is 40% of the black load in IMR 4198 with a bullet of the same type and weight and a LOT of Dacron fill - enough to fill up the case.

If you don't have any historical data on this rifle yet...

It was proved in London between 1875 and 1887. The flats have been stuck off at some time (probably when the barrels were re-blacked), so the original bore size - "39" - is hard to make out on one barrel. Prior to the 1887 rules, the bore diameter of rifles was stamped in gauge, and 39 gauge is .500. The ".500" stamp is not original, probably stamped when the rifle came into the US because the caliber stamping was not understood.

Your rifle was made by a trade maker in England for P. Orr & Sons of Madras and Rangoon. P. Orr & Sons, Watchmakers, Gold & Silversmiths, was founded by Peter Orr in Madras (Chennai), India in 1849. The company was successful and expanded, were once agents for Olds and Cadillac in India, and sold a number of other products, including arms and ammunition. The company is still in business. I have no idea if the firearms records survive.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Frank this is the same data that I hav.

quote:

The .500 BPE typically used 136 grains black and a 340 or 440 grain paper patched lead bullet, not jacketed. The rough rule of thumb for NFB is 40% of the black load in IMR 4198 with a bullet of the same type and weight and a LOT of Dacron fill - enough to fill up the case.

I would start a little lighter and work up as ushual, a cronograph is your best/most important tool. I think paper patch loads would be kinder to your barell's.
Bill

Wow guys, thank you.Now I can start making up some loads.
I have around ten pounds of black powder leftover from my Cowboy action shooting and may try a few of those loads. I was planning on some cast and paper patch before using the Woodleighs I bought.

Thank you Hivelosity for looking up the information.
Thanks Bill for the advice on safety. I will be using my Chrono, lesson learned from my Osbourne load development.Luckily I have used paper patching in the past with an old 40-65 I had. Learning to cut the patch took some time but I started using zig-zag papers and they worked so well, simply folded over that I used them exclusively.


NE 450 No2 thank you for the formula, I will be able to figure it up from there and the information from 400 Nitro Express. Part of the deal I made for the 500 included a 450 3.25 hammer underlever and I will start working those loads up once I get the 500 dialed in.
Good to hear from you 400 Nitro Express and I always learn from your posts here.
You are right about being busy and not having too much free time. As you know I had to give up my trip to Hog Haven again. Last year due to my having another damned Heart attack and this year due to trying to spend time with my father after his stroke. He passed at the end of February. I definitely miss shooting there and visiting with everyone.
Hopefully I will be able to make the summer shoot if there is one this year.
Frank

Frank,
I guess I'm tail-end charlie on this one but hope to help. Nice rifle! You'll enjoy, these BPEs are more fun than the full blown nitros I think, less weight, recoil and cheaper to shoot but still all the cool of a double. A couple of things to note. First, by hook or crook get a copy of Ross Seyfrieds article "Loading the 500 Express" from the Oct-Nov 2002 issue of "Handloader", has everything you need to know. If you can't find it send me a PM and I'll mail you a copy, I wouldn't load a round until this is read. Second, the BPE bullet weights were 340 and 380 gr, the NFB bullet was 440, start with the lighter ones, even in your NFB loads. My load is 54 gr of IMR 4198, 13 gr of dacron and a 370 gr bullet sized 510. That bullet is from a Lyman 515141 that I hollow-pointed dropping the weight from 440 gr to 370. As always start low, you want it to shoot high and wide, left and right then bring them together and lower as you increase the powder charge. The 500 is nice in this respect because you have only 3 well defined bullet weights to sort thru. The 450 has more so is a bit more complicated.
I don't have a load for the 450 but have noted most want to use a too heavy bullet in these. Early BPE loads used as light as 270 gr and went up into the mid 300s with the NBF. Again I'd start at the low end.
I've tried loading black but without a lot of success. If you want to try this KIK 2f seems to be the best. Sherman Bell did an article about two years ago in "Double Gun Journal" about powders used in NFB loads and concluded that the 40% load of 4198 resulted in less pressure than black so I've stopped fiddling with the black, maybe in my old age when I have nothing better to do. All the bullets I shoot are grease-grove at this point, don't have the time to try paperpatching, maybe later.
Hope you enjoy the new rifles, PM if I can be of assistance.
Best.