It’s always been a dream of mine to someday get caught up enough on my reloading that I could just grab a gun and go shooting – without having to load for it first. Usually I haven’t had time to get very far ahead on my reloading, but this current situation is helping me finally get caught up on most calibers I shoot.

But I’m a bit hesitant to get too far ahead because of a bad experience years ago. I found a load that one particular factory hunting rifle really liked (often as good as ½ MOA) so I went wild and loaded all my brass in that caliber with those exact components. When first loaded, the accuracy continued with that load. But interests change and that rifle got moved back in the rotation and wasn’t shot much. 15 or so years later I dug that rifle back out and with that same ammo the groups were so large (3 to 4”+ MOA) that I couldn’t even tell if the gun was sighted in.

Long story a bit shorter, over the next couple years I tried messing with everything… except the ammo (because that COULDN’T be the problem…). Careful cleaning, checking the mounts, different scope, checking the bedding, etc. Nothing worked. Groups were still HUGE. Finally tried a few different loads and it shot fine again (duh).

Apparently something changed with that ammo and it wasn’t accurate anymore. Unfortunately I didn’t have a chronograph back then so I didn’t test the speed, but the ammo had been stored pretty well. Relatively stable and dry conditions and the cases were still looking good externally. The brass had been cleaned well before loading too (no lube or corrosion in the neck).

A benchrest buddy of mine blamed the neck tension for somehow changing. I’ve heard a few other folks mention that as an issue on this forum. It was long ago enough that I don’t remember what I did with that ammo, but I think I ended up pulling the bullets and starting over – so I don’t have any more to test. I don’t recall that the powder showed that it had gone bad or gave trouble in any other loads.

Finally, here are my questions: Have other people experienced this?

Are you doing anything with your reloads to try to maintain the neck tension/accuracy longer? (Really clean cases and bullets, sealants, crimp, different storage???)

And if you’ve had a batch of ammo give neck tension trouble have you had any luck pulling and reseating the bullets?

Since it’s the internet, I know a few people are going to comment that they have ¼ MOA ammo that they loaded in the 1940’s, etc. - and that’s fine. Many of my loads have maintained accuracy over time also, but I’d like to hear ideas that I might be able to incorporate in my loading that will logically help maintain the accuracy for a decade or two.

Thanks,
Kyler

quote:

And if you’ve had a batch of ammo give neck tension trouble have you had any luck pulling and reseating the bullets?

I brought some 8x57 surplus that were giving me high pressure.

Until I pull the bullets resized the necks and reseated all fine then

I routinely shoot .50 and .30 cal ammo made during WW2 and it is more accurate than current stuff.
Old match shooters would sometimes "crack" the bullets on GI ammo a bit deeper to make them more uniform and avoid bullet welding (many are asphalt sealed too).
That is your problem though; neck tension changed.

Some of the gilded metal of the bullet jackets seemed to time weld with some brass cases. Some but not all. They just grew together. Messed with a .244 Rem that did that. Very high pressure, had a hard time pulling the bullets. Powder charge was a little below max. Maybe it had to do with the case lube. I have kept some 3 to 4 year stuff that did not act any different. I tumble all mine after resizing, maybe the case polish helps.

I had a Savage 111 chambered in 270Win that I found a compressed load of H1000 powder and 140 grain Hornady Interlock bullets would stack at 100 yds. After loading more than enough ammo to hunt whitetail deer with, I went hunting and though I didn't miss any of the three deer I shot, I had the feeling that it wasn't shooting as accurate as when I tested this load. After being home a few days or so I went back to the range with some of the left over ammo and my one hole shooter was showing about 5-6" groups at 100 yds. I pulled some bullets to check the powder charge weight and the powder had to be lightly chiseled out of the case sort of like soft cinder block. I used a faster powder and worked up another accurate load, but it was not as tight a shooter as the original load but plenty accurate for hunting. I shy away from compressed loads since then.

Tony Boyer uses very high neck tension.

I have been able to make surplus 308 Winchester ammo more accurate by running it through a lee factory crimp die. Like dpcd mentioned, the black material in the necks gives varying neck tension and crimping makes it more consistent

So even factory ammo can create the same problem or is it not so? I do not have experience with factory ammo, but had similar experience with ammo loaded 8 years back.

It seems to be better to only load enough for the hunt and the reload once you run out of ammo. Seems also a good idea to keep the powder in the container.

Pistol I know is not that critical. Had shot reloads from the 1985 the other day and they all went bang, but with a little bit of smoke. I unfortunately did not measure the velocity.

Kyler, I'm glad to see you posting again!

Recently someone on here mentioned that one of the accuracy gurus mentioned in a book that handloaded bullets can weld themselves inside the neck of the case.

I would think that might have caused a problem like yours.....

I meant to ask why this problem would show up with handloads but not with factory ammo.

Maybe someone could answer this???

About 15 years ago I loaded 1600 rounds of .223 with 55gr FMJ Remington bullets that were moley coated. A couple of weeks ago I fired a few rounds over the chrono and to my surprise from the Hi to the Lo was almost 300 FPS and all cases showed cracked necks. Came home and took all the rest of ammo apart, Some bullets pulled out by hand and a fair share of case necks were already cracked.

When loading for inventory, would it be smart to load .005 or .010 long and then, as the great day approaches run them back through the seating die, set for the desired COAL?

Thanks for all the tips and discussion. I've heard of necks "welding" before. I was hoping that clean brass would make that take longer, but thinking from a welding standpoint an argument could be made that bare metals in contact would accelerate the process. Maybe a sealant coating of some type could delay welding. It sounds like moly isn't the easy answer.

Probably seating them a bit long is a good plan, but I'm hoping if/when they give trouble maybe a couple whacks in an inertia puller will move them out a bit to break the "weld" and then they can be reseated. Experimentation could be done with a crimp after the reseating too.

It just dawned on me that I still have some .223's left over from a prairie dog trip around 25 years ago. I shoot a few here and there and they're still showing decent accuracy. As I recall they were uncoated VMAX bullets and the brass weren't tumbled. I should study those a bit to see if I can learn anything.

look inside the necks for old powder soot.

a lot of the guys I know that make their own bullets [and ammo too of course] leave the last bit of swage lube on their finished product.
I tend to leave just a bit of case lube or wax from case cleaning in the necks.
it acts as a barrier between the bullet and the case neck to prevent the bonding from happening.

Interesting topic.. I found some 243's I loaded in 1977 that shot as well as the did when I loaded them (and even in a different rifle)

But then I had some 35 Remington factory ammo of about the same vintage, maybe a little older, that wouldn't group 6" in 2 different rifles.. I attribute it to poor storage, but who knows..

Is this bullet 'welding' some kind of electrolysis?

Ive never heard of such a problem..Ihave a lot of old 20 year old stuff that still shoots great..Ive pulled some bullets that were stuck but they shot well..A hard stuck bullet would run pressure up and that could effect accuracy and POI...

One wonders if your stocks bedding has moved a tad, and it,s just your particular gun, or the barrel is the problem, probably not shot in the same gun, perhaps?? each barrel is a inity unto itself..

On 2 of my 7X57 AI, (one likes 175 G. + the other 160G + never the twain shall meet). I only neck size these cases + keep them separate for the particular rifle.

I don't have very much loaded ammo on hand but I do have plenty of brass,primers,powder and bullets.I have always liked to use freshly loaded ammo before going on a hunt.That way I know there will not be any question as to WTF happened.For my hunting loads I like to use once fired brass too.That way I know my brass is still soft and my neck tensions will be about the same too.

quote:

Originally posted by squeezenhope:
When loading for inventory, would it be smart to load .005 or .010 long and then, as the great day approaches run them back through the seating die, set for the desired COAL?

That's maybe a good idea.
I would, however, not load them originally as close as 5 thousandths because tight necks will not allow you to precisely seat them that minuscule amount. I'd leave them 50 or 100 thousandths long so you can get a bit more "run at it" to seat to the desired depth.

Just my 2 cents,
Zeke

Damn I hope not!
I've got a big pile of ammo can's
full of loaded stuff for a bunch
of different cals.

George

Well Ive kept this a secret long enough, its the damn Red Gods of Gundome, sometimes they just have a bad day and pick on one of us..