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The reason I ask is, I have a couple of hundred 225-grain Game Kings on my bullet shelf, and I shoot both a .358 Win. and a .35 Whelen. While I used to shoot 165-grain Game Kings in an '06, I quit when I almost lost a couple of deer because of the lack a blood trail due to lack of an exit wound. Of the dozen or so deer I shot with the Sierras, the only time I ever got a pass through was on a neck shot (I must admit, however, that I did get more bang-flops with the Game Kings than any bullet I ever used, before or since). I have heard, however, that the .358 Game Kings are a little stouter than the .308 ones. In fact, I have heard that some folks have trouble getting them to open up at all when shot out of their .358 Winnies (my .358 carbine sends 225 grain bullets out the barrel at about an average of 2370 fps.). With Whelen velocities, however, I've heard the the 225-grain Game Kings tend to over-expand and lack penetration (such as in my experience with the .30 caliber version). I was just wondering what you guys have experienced with .358 Game Kings. | ||
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Limited. I loaded them to 2670fps in my Whelen. Tested them as per my usual test. 16-18 inches Penetration w/ full expansion. They did all hold together and created a massive wound channel. Sierra claims it is a very stout bullet---too stout for the 35R or 358W. | |||
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I looked at the latest Sierra Manuel and need to edit my prior post. The Manuel says the 35/225 SGK is too stout/solid/strong/tough for the 35R, but is 'the' bullet for the 358W, 35 Whelen and bigger cartridges. Being AR a/b my reloads and a NP proponent, I feel the 225 SGK is stout/strong enough for me to feel comfortable/confident using it on elk or moose. | |||
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The sierra 225 grain bullets are crap, I had a bad experience of total lead and jacket separation on a red stag. I use the swift A frames with excellent results. | |||
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I have shot Sierra Gamekings for years with my two .358 STA’s developing loads and for Deer sized game. With speeds my STA’s develope on larger game in Africa and Elk and larger animals in North America I confess I use Northforks because they are much much tougher. I really like exit holes and the Northforks with their solid shank and bonded core front section provide them. Good Shooting. phurley | |||
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They are best hunting bullets I found in my 358 Win (sold it 15 years ago) It was a 20 inch barrel Mod 70 and pointed like it was part of me and red deer went bang flop. I got around 2350 fps with 20 inch barrel & IMR3031 "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Used them in my 358 win on 4 or 5 feral pigs in the 175-200 lb class. Never recovered a 1, nice blood trails. As the great T. Blaukamp (who has done more actually bullet testing on live animals of anybody I know) says. Shoot 10 elk with same bullet at the same velocity and you have a start of an opinion of that bullet on elk. Anybody who renders a definitive opinion based on 1 experience with a bullet is likely naive. Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I like to play with some 35 cal rifles including a 35 Rem, a 358 Win, 35 Whelan Ackley Improved, 350 Rem and 358 Norma. The 225 gr Sierra is not the bullet I would use against dangerous game but it works pretty dam well on deer elk moose and black bear and I think hogs would fit in that group. They don't work well in my Marlin 35 Rem. In the 358, 35 Whelan and the 350 Rem the Sierra bullet is very good. They will exit on most broadside shots and lots of blood leaking out the exit wound. It is also suprizingly flat shooting in those 3 cartridges. I have shot the Sierras in my Norma but they do not hold together as well as they do in smaller cartridges. In fact the only 225 gr bullets I will use in the Norma are the Barnes TSX and the Partition. 250 gr and 280 gr bullets are better suited to the Norma. | |||
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When I hear people run down Sierra Bullets and Nosler Ballistic Tips my first question is usually how many years ago was your "they are explosive" story and usually find out it was 35 plus years ago. I'm pretty sure some things have changed for both bullets. I haven't used the .358" Sierra bullet yet but have used many of their other diameters and can only say great things about them. I will be loading them in a 35 Whelen in the future. | |||
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Shot several hogs with the 225 grain Sierra from a whelen, they all died, most right where they were shot, none required a second shot. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind..." Hosea 8:7 | |||
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225 grain Sierra Game Kings have been my go to bullet in my .35 Whelen for nearly 30 yrs., in range testing they have proved to be the most accurate when loaded with a moderate charge of IMR 4064 and on whitetails have produced complete pass thrus on broadside shots. | |||
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Last year. I wouldn't use it on big animals again. Whitetails fine!
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reddy375 What did you shoot them in/with? | |||
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I wouldn't hesitate to use them on anything up to and including Moose or Brown bear..I.ve seen few 250 gr. bullets at 2500 plus fail to kill anything pretty damn quick, even if they came apart or just drilled the animal..Ive used enough big bore heavy solids on PG to respect the way they kill..I hear a lot of pencil thru stuff, but Its always ended up with a dead animal if its stuck in the right spot and when 250 to 300 grs explodes inside an animal it will hit the dirt... I shot maybe 30 head of plainsgame with the Sierra 250 gr. .338 and a couple of buffalo, no problems so far..I know a lot of locals that use them on elk and bring home meat and pretty mushroomed bullets.  That said Sierras are not my choice of bullets, Im sold on Nosler partitions and Accubonds.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Very odd, I use 165 grain game kings in 308 and 30-06. I have had 168 pass throughs on deer in 169 shots and only 1 that failed to exit. This doe stood up at a range of 10 feet and I tried to shoot from left rear to front right shoulder. The bullet broke up in the stomach. A second shot anchored the doe. I generally shot 250's in 35 calibers (35 whelen and 350 RM) except for the 35 Remington. Game king 225's work fine in the Remington but velocity is down around 2000 fps. No break up and exit. | |||
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I have used the .358" 225gr. Sierra Game king to shoot one shot at a deer ever. So my opinion is not worth much. My experience was with a typical Saskatchewan whitetail deer, perhaps 200 lbs. Bullet was loaded in my .35 Whelen at about 2600FPS. Stalked to within 25 yards. Shot was in the clear, placed just behind the shoulder, centre lungs, broadside. Deer ran off as if only spooked. Tracked for 200-250 yds, and found no blood. Was about to give up in disbelief, and noticed the tracks slowed and started to wander. Found the deer dead. Bullet sized hole in and out, lungs were bled out but only a tiny bit of lung damage. Exit hole was sealed by fat and never bled, same as entrance. Normal effect with any other .35 Whelen bullet would have been a clear reaction to the hit, copious amount of blood on the ground, a thumb sized or bigger exit wound, and dead within 20-30 yds. I don't know why this happend, but once is enough. I reserved those bullets for targets after that. | |||
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Longwalker, What other deer have you shot at 25 yards with what bullet from your Whelen? Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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NONE. Others were farther away. I've not used my Whelens for much deer hunting, have taken a few with 250 Grand Slam, 250 Hornady RN, 200 Rem PSPCL. I've mostly used my Whelens for elk moose and caribou. | |||
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Probably any experience with any bullet would take a number of animals shot to determine much. The more animals shot the more founded the opinion is a good rule. Two or three can give one a false impression..We all tend to do that..I had a few failures with Barnes X some 20 years ago, tried them again about 10 years ago and another failure and only recently in the last couple of years decided to give them one more chance, Everyone I new like Phil Shoemaker, Finn Aagard, guides and PHs and a couple of others plus the number of people that use them swear by them praised them highly, so I shot a number of animals with them and they are working great so far. Im shooting the TTSXs. in my 8x57, 257 Ackley, 308, 7x57, 30-06 and 270 culling does over a few years on a lot of animals, including an elk or two, they are working just fine..Im anxious to try the Barnes bullet with the tungsten core that gives the weight but shortens the overall length..If it ever comes about and it was being considered, Did it ever show up? don't know. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Most failures come with magnum rounds, I can see where a 358 would perform in a 35 Rem, 35 Whelan and if it did then its probably too soft for 358 Norma magnum etc...That's been the case many times over on these threads and in magazines....Probably a good idea to get that settled before you spend a bunch on an expensive safari... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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When it comes to bullets I see a lot of posts stating that Sierras are too soft, or such and such brand are too tough.. The problem lies in that there are considerable differences in bullets of the same make..Good Sierras in one caiber but don't work in another caliber, Same with all brands of bullets..To be specific one must state a certain make of bullet at a certain weight and judge that specific bullet...I know Sierras 150 and 170 gr. bullet in a 30-30 is awesome but The Sierra for the 284 for instance may be too soft..Then you have to take in mind the caliber and the veloicity..I don't doubt that one may have problems with a 35 caliber Sierra bullet designed for the 35 Rem will fail in a 358 Norma.. This applies to all bullet makes..pick your bullet carefully at the velocity you intend to shoot it as opposed to claiming all Sirerra are soft or all Noslers are too hard..All brands apply to this..We tend to say I don't like the Sierra whatever, when infact it may perform to perfection in one caliber but not in another..That is the reason we get bombarded with opinnions of which bullets are good and which ones are not so good.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Hell, just ask the manufacturer what the suggested impact velocity range is on the bullet you're looking at, pick the range you're interested in and load accordingly. Phil | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Opinion on .358 Sierra Game Kings
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