Looking for load data for Cutting Edge Bullets. I have the 235 grain ER Raptors for my 375 H&H. Quickload data provided by Cutting Edge has maximum load with R17 at 78.2 grains. Seems high so I'm not sure how far below this I should start development. Using R17 because that's what I have and can't find other powders right now. Thanks in advance for any info.

I wish that I had a specific suggestion for you. That is a good bullet.
Barnes info might helpful for a starting load. Can you find any Reloder 15?
https://www.barnesbullets.com/...ds/2017/09/375HH.pdf

Also, AmmoGuide, Re. Barnes bullet.

For the CEB 235 ER Raptor in my 375H&H I'm loading 72grs of H4895 at 2935fps.. Got the data from the Barnes manual .... shot more than a handful pigs with great success.

Thanks for the info and suggestions. I do appreciate it.

The CEB 235 grain ER raptor are probably the most accurate bullet out of my 375 H&H I've shot many sub 0.3-0.5" three shot groups and my best load shot a 0.7" three shot group at 300 yards



Unfortunately, all my testing were with RL-15. BLC-2, IMR4064 and other powders



As accurate as the 235 grain Raptor ER bullet is, I have no faith with it as a hunting bullet. I shot a bushbuck at 200 meters broadside, on the point of the shoulder and the bullet exploded and failed to penetrate to the vitals. A few bone fragments penetrated the lung and it took another 40 minutes and four 200 grain Black Talons from a Glock at point blank range to finish him.
I later shot a jackal at 150 meters and the entrance hole in the belly was 2" in diameter while the exit hole was 6" across. No bone was hit.
I also took a nyala with it at 100 yards but opted to shoot it in the neck rather than risk a shoulder shot. The bullet penciled through the spine with no indication of expansion.

That is not the news I wanted to hear. I was planning on using them for Rocky Mountain Elk in Wyoming this fall.

I do have BLC-2 if you wouldn’t mind sharing your load data.
Thanks much.

Disregard the BLC-2 load data. I see it on your target. Thanks again.

He says one Raptor bullet exploded without penetrating and another time one penciled through. Yeah right. If you believe that, then I have a bridge for sale. Brian

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Canada:
He says one Raptor bullet exploded without penetrating and another time one penciled through. Yeah right. If you believe that, then I have a bridge for sale. Brian

You better believe him.

I make my own bullets, out of copper rod.

I have had some that disintegrate completely.

We found the reason is microscopic faults within the rod material we use.

There is no way in hell one can see that before manufacture.

We get our rods in 4 meter lengths, and we cut them into 60cm lengths top fit our CNC lathe.

It seems a minute air pocket is created while forming the rod, and that causes the bullets to fall apart.

I have shot a buffalo bull standing broadside.

Hit him on the shoulder.

The bullet destroyed all the shoulder blade, but never penetrated into the chest cavity.

Other bullets of the same design, caliber and weight would penetrate a buffalo bull from tail to neck.

I cannot argue with Saeed as he has much more experience with metallurgy than I ... I will say that I have shot numerous more than 20 head of game with CEB bullets with no failures (YET)..
shot a cow elk last fall with a 187gr Raptor out of a 338 win around 120yards she jumped, than stood for a while than fell over when I went to her there was a 4' "rope" of blood on the ground where she was standing

I'm going to agree with Saeed on this one as well and say I would chalk up Frank's experience to a faulty bullet and not a design flaw to be expected across the board with Raptors.

I've not shot the .375 Raptor in 235 gr but I have used the 9.3 255 gr Raptor to take a variety of game ranging from Baboon, Warthog, Kudu, Impala, Diker, Grysbuck, Whitetail Deer, and a male lion. I've also shot the Raptors in larger calibers on Buffalo.

My experience with the CEB Raptors has been exceptional with almost all kills being DRT.

By the same token, my primary go to bullet is the Barnes TSX or TTSX. I have some friends with A LOT of hunting experience who have sworn off of them for various reasons. I can't count the number of animals, nor species, I've shot with the TSX bullets and have never had an animal properly hit, run more than 50 yards, again with most being DRT in their tracks.

It's entirely possible to get a bad batch of bullets with imperfections like Saeed described, which then lead to strange performance like Frank's bushbuck experience. My experience with the Raptors has been consistently good.

Yes I know Saeed knows what he is talking about and probably Fjold also has much more experience than me, but sorry to all, I have to go with my experience and research on this one with CEB Raptors. Saeed explanation does not speak to why a .375 Raptor "penciled though the spine with no expansion".

quote:

Originally posted by Brian Canada:
Yes I know Saeed knows what he is talking about and probably Fjold also has much more experience than me, but sorry to all, I have to go with my experience and research on this one with CEB Raptors. Saeed explanation does not speak to why a .375 Raptor "penciled though the spine with no expansion".

I have seen this happen too.

Both with Barnes X and our own bullets.

Sometimes, for no known reason, the bullets hp closes and it stays in one piece as a solid.

I have explanations for this, but have experienced it many times.

Always killed the animal though.

Yes, I have had GS Custom bullets stay closed in 30 cal and 7 mm cal. But was told by PH's that they always open up reliably in .375 cal of bigger.
The .375 cal Raptor has a pretty big hole in the nose.
If you and Frank say it has happened, I have to accept it.
I have actually only used Raptors in .500 cal and 577. come to think of it, and of course they are going to work as advertised.
I used CEB solids in .375 for buffalo.

For 375 and up I will use Raptors whenever I get the chance.

I am not really sure there are many hunters who have used Barnes X, and our own Walterhog, bullets, as extensively as we have.

This is through many years, by many hunters. Shooting all sorts of animals.

Both ours and Barnes behaved exactly the same way.

Some loose the petals.

Some expand in a classic manner.

Some don’t expand at all.

But, they always kill.

Yes, I know that you and your group have more experience than I ever will so I would be foolish and stubborn to not heed your opinions. The same probably goes for Frank, I must admit.

I will say that the CEB Raptor is a bit different design than your bullet and the Barnes bullet, huge hole in the nose, break away blades and the core remains like a solid. I don't know what type of brass they use. Brian

Here is a perfect example of a bullet not expanding, and going through an animal, killing instantly.

I shot this wildebeest while he was walking away.

Hit him as you can see next to his tail.

Bullet went all the way through him, came out, and hit him in the face, and gone.

Here is an example of non expanding bullet.

If one hunts and shoots enough.

One will see strange things happen too and from bullets.

I learned many years ago if they are still moving shoot them again.

Ammo is cheap a hunt is not.

As one of poster here tag line reads.

The famous last words of a trophy fee gone bad.

Don't shot again you hit him hard the first time.

What about some kind of "expansion initiator", such as Peregrine VRG3 design or so. Any experience?

I bet it will behave just as any other copper bullet.

I have very little confidence in these PR gadgets which actually achieve nothing in reality.

MrChoi. The 235 gn Raptor is also one of the most accurate bullets out of my 375 H&H. I can concur that 76gns of RL15 is a great recipe out of my gun. I have not had a bullet failure with this projectile as of yet. I've shot 4 Black Bear here in Coastal NC, the last one was 525 pounds, dead right there. I shot a Coastal Brown Bear a few years ago with this gun and he also never took a step. 2019 I shot several plains game in SA that never made it out of sight. My buddy shot a whitetail doe on the point of the shoulder with this same load, it killed her dead but did not exit the deer.

They ought to call that the "Pop Rivet".

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
What about some kind of "expansion initiator", such as Peregrine VRG3 design or so. Any experience?

It performs well,they said: https://www.africahunting.com/...ctured-bullet.23063/

I used it on cape buffalo and it was excellent. I don't know if the plunger makes any difference.
I like the shape/design and the driving bands. They are good folks trying to do their best.

Here is a short story/report that I wrote on the Peregrine and CEB Raptor. ( This is a repeat. I am pretty sure that I posted it here before. Apologies for the repeat)

https://www.africahunting.com/...s-for-buffalo.50708/

Thanks everyone for the continued information and suggestions. I'm new to this forum, but I can tell from the many posts that my future here will be a long one. I really do appreciate all the help.

MRChoi, Here is a link to the website of the people who designed and tested the Raptor bullet that is sold by Cutting Edge Bullets.
Lots of research info, very deep sight. You will see that Raptors are functionally different than Barnes TSX bullets.

Good hunting, Brian

https://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com

Ive had a couple of Barnes bullets go bad on me. Ive had 100% perfect results with GS customs on all game up to and including buffalo, Hippo and a cow elephant with the cup point and flat nose solids of NOrth Fork..

but push comes to shove give me a 350 gr. 375 Woodleigh or a 450 gr. 416 Woodleigh, in a PP or a solid..Ive used this old fashion bullet for years and I love it..

that said I have no interest in using a 375 or any big bore for long range shooting at game..there are better calibers for that and there is no such critter as as the fabled all around rifle IMO

I've never had a problem with Cutting Edge Bullets not performing including on Cape Buffalo and Hippo.
I shot my Hippo broadside with a 475gr Raptor and you can see the beginning of the star shape as it entered the heart. The exit out of the heart was a 2" hole.

I'm loading 78gr of RL15 with the 230gr ESP Raptor in my 375 H&H with exceptional accuracy.

I have shot literally hundreds of buffalo and hippo, with both Barnes X and our own Walterhogs.

Never had a single failure with any of them

Brian:

Thank you for sharing. Great hunt!

I have used the Safari Raptors for the last 5 safaris with phenomonal results Perfect performance on impala to buffalo and Giraffe. I will continue to use them.