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Wolf Pack Removal
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Wolves to be Removed from White Mountain Apache Tribal Lands

The Hon-Dah pack of Mexican wolves is to be removed permanently from the Fort Apache Indian Reservation in Arizona. The removal is the result of the pack being directly involved in five confirmed cattle depredations and one confirmed cattle injury on Tribal lands since June 7, 2005. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) issued the Hon-Dah Pack Permanent Removal Order on April 19, 2006 at the request of the Tribal Council.

Tribal Wildlife Services assisted by the Interagency Field Team and USDA Wildlife Services began trapping operations immediately. Trapping is the method of first choice for removal. If trapping fails, then lethal methods will be employed. The Service has an agreement with the White Mountain Apache Tribe that allows for removal (including lethal take when circumstances dictate) of livestock depredating wolves on Fort Apache Indian Reservation.

The Hon-Dah pack was transferred to a release pen on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation on June 23, 2003. The pack’s territory is exclusively within the Fort Apache Indian Reservation.

On April 20, a pack member was successfully live captured and removed to the Ladder Ranch captive breeding facility in southwestern New Mexico. Trapping efforts continue for the remaining pack members.

Locations and information relating to wolf packs occurring on tribal lands are not disclosed per an agreement with the White Mountain Apache Tribe.
 
Posts: 434 | Registered: 28 February 2003Reply With Quote
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This may or may not add anything to this subject, but for the past 15 or 16 years, I have worked with both Mexican grey and Red wolves in a captive situation, at the Fort Worth, Texas Zoo.

From the observations I have made, and the information I have had access to, because both of these species are under Federal managemnet guidelines, the main reason the re-introduction programs for both species were suspended because of the speed with which these animals started preying upon domestic livestock, after being liberated from their acclimation enclosures.

Wolves are opportunistic predators that will prey upon on the most readily available and easiest to kill, prey.

Also because there really aren't any true wilderness areas, covering, hundreds of thousands of acres of habitat, they realize that humans are a source of easy and readily available food.

Irregardless of human emotion, wolves had their time in the lower 48, just like the buffalo.

The clincher is that Buffalo don't have the capability to eat your children. JMO


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I agree totally with Crazyhorse with respect to wolves. From what I understand of them, they require vast territories and areas of land in which to hunt and roam, similar to wild/painted dogs in Africa and just like them, were persecuted because of attacking livestock, which resulted in their demise. They just see livestock as fast-food compared to say fast, agile antelope.

Humans, livestock and wild predators are never going to mix properly ever. The only option is to fence the cattle off. That is probably not a practical idea though, because of the most likely low-carrying capacity of the land involved, which would be too expensive to fence, and which provides problems in itself with migration of animals, etc.

I would also think that wolves are intelligent and would learn quickly from trapping, and darting from a helicopter might be the best method, if not being somewhat expensive though. I say let the wolves run free, just cut down on the cattle and replace them with bison and other wild antelope and try get back to as close as possible to the original natural situation!
 
Posts: 302 | Location: England | Registered: 10 November 2006Reply With Quote
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would you like to see what the wolves do to cattle( These pictures are not pretty or for the faint of heart and are real) note how little was eaten on the dead cow in Wyoming you can not even shoot a wolf unless it has already attacked your horse or cow and and the horse or cows guts are hanging out also the wolves have been slaughtering the Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd and Moose i can get you the numbers on that. the only reason the wolves were reintroduced was to get rid of the outfitters, ranchers and sheepmen




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Posts: 44 | Location: Wyoming USA | Registered: 22 April 2009Reply With Quote
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I collected one of the last Texas bounties paid (or so I've been told) in about '67 .

About fifteen years ago, I received "hate mail" from a group wanting to restore them to Texas; they apparently sent some of the "last bounty collectors" such " thank yous" after finding our names in the records.

As to the wolf, a red-

$20 for the ears, they let me keep the pelt. Smiler
(burned in a house fire Frowner )

My Grandfather chased, and trapped them all his life trying to keep the off the cattle and goats.
He had recently died and
"this one "
was for him.


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Posts: 4593 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
I collected one of the last Texas bounties paid (or so I've been told) in about '67 .


Very interesting!! Would love to hear the details and see pics if you've got them and are willing to share Wink


"....but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not of soundness of heart."
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Posts: 466 | Location: Just west of Cleo, TX | Registered: 20 February 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Vanderhoef:
quote:
Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
I collected one of the last Texas bounties paid (or so I've been told) in about '67 .


Very interesting!! Would love to hear the details and see pics if you've got them and are willing to share Wink


Pics burned in my brothers house fire along with the pelt and my first gun collection, etc in about '79.

They had been hitting our goats and one of our watermelon patches.

Staked out a young billy hobbled in the watermelons--the idea was two sources of bait.

Built a platform at the north west corner as we typically had south east winds.

I rigged up some surplus aircraft landing lights and a caterpillar batteries to make the 24volts.

Slept out there for about a week or so.
one night the billy started screaming, about the same time I heard a watermelon crunch.

Hit the lights and he froze, really a pretty easy shot.

Took him to the county seat and collected my $20, the GW and Sheriff were there.

Seems like yesterday --42 years of yesterdays.


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Posts: 4593 | Location: TX | Registered: 03 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Thats exactly what coyotes do. I'm talking about the pictures above.


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Posts: 146 | Location: Oracle, Az. | Registered: 01 October 2007Reply With Quote
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are coyotes good hunter or mostly scavanger like jackals? which game animal is in their daily menu?do a pack of coyote hunt a deer?
best regards


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
 
Posts: 1807 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 23 September 2005Reply With Quote
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coyotes can and will sometimes get in small packs and take deer. They are the ultimate survivor they will eat anything that doesn't eat them first. The coyotes take a lot of fawns in the spring and between them wolves and lions the whitetail population in Nw MT has dropped drastically in the past two years. I have never seen so few deer in this area.
 
Posts: 509 | Location: Flathead county Montana | Registered: 28 January 2008Reply With Quote
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thanks for the reply. it was intresting to know Smiler


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
 
Posts: 1807 | Location: Sweden | Registered: 23 September 2005Reply With Quote
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Nzou,

you all had wolves for thousands of years in jolly olde. What happened to them? We can send you a couple hundred if you like them so well. Warning though, they breed faster than muslims and are even more...
Your livestock industry may have a few issues, but hey if they are that cool I am sure you are willing to convert to vegetarianism to help out...

Rich
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Nzou,

you all had wolves for thousands of years in jolly olde. What happened to them? We can send you a couple hundred if you like them so well. Warning though, they breed faster than muslims and are even more...
Your livestock industry may have a few issues, but hey if they are that cool I am sure you are willing to convert to vegetarianism to help out...

Rich


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Posts: 509 | Location: Flathead county Montana | Registered: 28 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I realize that wolves can't be hunted in many areas, but as far as the coyote, are we doing enough as hunters to control them? I just don't see much activity here in the east, and eastern coyote get real big. I have personally seen 65lb coyote and dogs over 50lb are common. I know they are doing some damage to wildlife. IMO. the reason there is little interest in controlling the coyote is the decline of farming here in the east. When we see children in danger, folks will take it seriously.
 
Posts: 1312 | Location: MN and ND | Registered: 11 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Wolves? SSS!!!!! Enough said!!!!!
 
Posts: 1610 | Location: Shelby, Ohio | Registered: 03 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Posts: 570 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 12 November 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JonP:
I realize that wolves can't be hunted in many areas, but as far as the coyote, are we doing enough as hunters to control them? I just don't see much activity here in the east, and eastern coyote get real big. I have personally seen 65lb coyote and dogs over 50lb are common. I know they are doing some damage to wildlife. IMO. the reason there is little interest in controlling the coyote is the decline of farming here in the east. When we see children in danger, folks will take it seriously.


Unfortunately, hunters using calls and rifles/shotguns seldom if ever can control a coyote population. We just aren't effective enough. What usualy happens is that we end up killing the older coyoyes that have larger territories and they are replaced by a larger number of younger yotes with much smaller terriories.

465H&H
 
Posts: 5686 | Location: Nampa, Idaho | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by yes:
thanks for the reply. it was intresting to know Smiler


You'd be making a mistake to underestimate coyotes.

Canadian folk singer killed by coyotes, park official says

I don't want to make them out to be more than they are, but they're smart and they're bold, and they can kill things totally out of proportion their size..

I've seen them send a bitch in heat through a suburban neighborhood to get a male dog to chase after her, and the rest of the pack will kill it when it gets within range.

They really do plan these things out. Your average coyote is a lot smarter than, say, a Congressman or a Member of the European Parliament. Which, when you think about it, may not be much of a compliment. But suffice to say they're smart.

Coyotes in the southwest where I live don't get much bigger than 30 pounds. But they kill for a living and most dogs don't stand an ice cube's chance in hell of making a contest with one. Or more likely several. A lady I knew was walking her dog near a golf course when it was killed by 11.

I made the mistake of unleashing my Chesapeake pup in a greenbelt near my house. As soon as he was off the chain, out pops a coyyote and he starts chasing it. Then the other 4 coyotes pop up out of the grass and start chasing my dog. Now I'm running over hill and dale trying to make sure I can keep close enough to stop the coyotes from killing my dog.

I should have let them; they'd have saved me a lot of trouble. That dog was never any good; he was flat mean.

I'm told they get up to 80 pounds in the north. That's frightening.

Here's a picture of a lucky kid. He could have been killed.



I don't blame the coyotes. I blame the idiots who encourage them. I've actually had the displeasure of being acquanted with people who had dogs killed by coyotes, and then kept putting bowls of dog food out to keep feeding the coyotes! Some idiot was actually putting out a feeder in the green belt near my former house.
 
Posts: 8938 | Location: Dallas TX | Registered: 11 October 2005Reply With Quote
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I realize that wolves can't be hunted in many areas,



They can be hunted anytime anywhwere Just know what happens if you get caught and you better know who your friends are. Nuff said

The wosrt case I have seen with wolves to date has been around Darby Mt. and the northern Idaho panhandle beig a close second.



Cal30




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Posts: 3067 | Location: Northern Nevada & Northern Idaho | Registered: 09 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I recall an episode of Mythbusters where they made meat bullets. Imagine making bullets out of elk meat dipping them in liquid nitrogen and then shooting wolves with them.

Poetic Justice??


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Posts: 2973 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 15 January 2008Reply With Quote
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The problem with the wolf lovers they don't understand the wolf-prey cycle, packs will continue to grow as long as there is prey animals to feed on, once the prey animals populations start to decrease one of two things happen, either they find something else to prey on in their range or they expand there range to new areas, mainly areas without other large predators since predators will protect their home ranges. If these fail they themselves will die off thus allowing the prey populations to replenish. The problem is this cycle takes many years.
Now what throws a wrench into the equations, since wolves for the most part have been decimated in many areas the wolves can work themselves into new areas that have not had them before. The real problem starts since these wolves have not been hunted by man, they have no fear of man because we act like prey animals and don't attack them. A pack that develops a Taste for us can do a heck of allot of damage to people before we can either eliminate them or create fear in their eyes. Look at the crap that Sarah Palin got when she allowed aerial shooting of wolves in Alaska.
I got an email the other day from one of those animal rights organization who were attempting to raise money to stop the aerial shooting of these wolves, I got to post on their web site why this was being done. I also made a couple of other posts which agreed with them on other topics and they removed all of my posts and blocked my future posts. This was a big organization and I will never make any contributions to these animal dim wits again, if you can't be fair you don't belong there.


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Posts: 2295 | Location: Monee, Ill. USA | Registered: 11 April 2001Reply With Quote
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This liberal cluster f--k is the worst thing in game management history..The Administration lies cheats and steals like common criminals to flood the country with preditors, they stock more wolves than they claim knowing that once established the population of any animals that litters cannot be controlled without the use of poison, snares, traps and a program for a number of willing ranchers..Elk have one or two offspring as do deer, wolves have as many a 10 or 12 in some cases but at lest 4 to 6, All the experts should be required to take math courses.

I live among coyotes, and we hunt them a lot, Ive seen little depredation by coyotes on deer size animals, but on ocassion, Lions feed primarily on deer and even antelope. Wolves feed on Lions in Idaho..coyotes do well on ground squirrles and rodents, I don't see them as a cattle threat and Ive been in the ranchingbusiness for many years combined with other professions at the same time..you cannot control coyotes and wolves are any animal that has a litter without a major campaign to go to war on them, and the liberals will tie your hands in court..Its definately a problem..To top that the wild horses are more detrimental to wild life than all the preditors combined, thank all the Mustang Annies that live in high rise apts in NY and CAl, that must have a cause to exist! pissers


Ray Atkinson
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Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

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Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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