In 2015 I received a lot of help in getting started in casting bullets, from some very gracios members of the Cast Boolit Forum. I wanted a 700 grain, .585 bullet for cape buffalo that would perform as much like a North Fork Cup Point Solid as possible. Some of them laughed at me but several sages came through with instructions and a fairy esoteric recipe for the lead mixture. It was a success. I made up a life time supply. and never casted again.

At my low velocity the bullets were great. (Three, one shot kills.) The recovered bullets looked so good that I sometimes got requests for the recipe, but I had misplaced it.

Well here it is. I recently rescued it from my files.

- 10 lbs. of Lyman # 2 lead
- 7 lbs. of pure lead.
- 3 lbs. of old Hornady hard lead shot. (contained about 4% antimony)

This would make a good hard bullet if water dropped, but it would be too brittle and I was told it also needed some tin to "toughen it up." So they called for;

- 1 oz. of tin and 650 grains of copper sulphate. ( I think ?)

The copper sulphate was how you got the tin to mix with the lead, but my memory fails me on the protocol. One would have to raise the question on the Cast bullet Forum, but it went something like this: I think I melted the tin and copper sulphate together then poured them into a small batch if lead. ( As I write this part it doesn't sound quite right. Probably some one here will know what to do, for sure.) The point is that adding the Tin makes the bullet tough and the copper sulphate enables the tin the mix with the lead.
This is a very good DG bullet. It would be an excellent bear and moose medicine too, I think.

Seasons Greetings
Brian

the copper does not get the tin in solution.

the copper adds a boundary layer around the free antimony.

anyway you need zinc in the mix so you can trade the copper in and the zinc out.
removing the zinc will also remove about an equal amount of tin.
so put the tin in after making the ZN. Cu-S trade.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
the copper does not get the tin in solution.

the copper adds a boundary layer around the free antimony.

anyway you need zinc in the mix so you can trade the copper in and the zinc ou'st.
removing the zinc will also remove about an equal amount of tin.
so put the tin in after making the ZN. Cu-S trade.

Morning from Virginia. Do a bit of searching on scape metal yards for some babbit metal, I've found there are two types one has copper in it and I named it red babbit, There is another variety that have no idea what the alloy is so I named it blue babbit. I find it in 25 to 40 pound chunks, greasy and generally filthy. Either one combined with WW and water quenched will make heck of a hard bullet,

probably a lot easier to just go to the rotometals website and buy some super tough or some super hard and blend in some pure lead as needed.

babbit has too many variables in the different mixtures to be of much help other than just adding more stuff, if your trying to be somewhat precise.

not a problem for a guy at home that just wants more tin and also gets a little bit of other unknown amounts of antimony and maybe ???

close nuff is good nuff,,, really.

Lamar, I do agree with "close enough is good enough" on cast bullet hardness, especially on big bores. If I ever get through my mix of the above alloy, I won't go to all that trouble of making another complex mix.
There are lots of "Good enough" options for my 577NE that won't make any difference to a buffalo.

Also thanks for adding the clarity on what the copper does for the tin. I obviously had that wrong. ( Bad memory or bad notes.) Brian

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
the copper does not get the tin in solution.

the copper adds a boundary layer around the free antimony.

anyway you need zinc in the mix so you can trade the copper in and the zinc ou'st.
removing the zinc will also remove about an equal amount of tin.
so put the tin in after making the ZN. Cu-S trade.

Morning from Virginia. Do a bit of searching on scape metal yards for some babbit metal, I've found there are two types one has copper in it and I named it red babbit, There is another variety that have no idea what the alloy is so I named it blue babbit. I find it in 25 to 40 pound chunks, greasy and generally filthy. Either one combined with WW and water quenched will make heck of a hard bullet,

What is your ratio of Babbitt to WW?

I have about 3000 pounds of pipe lead (similar hardness to WW) and maybe 200 pounds of premium Diesel Babbitt. Time to mix up a batch and take Brinell readings.

quote:

Originally posted by WoodHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
the copper does not get the tin in solution.

the copper adds a boundary layer around the free antimony.

anyway you need zinc in the mix so you can trade the copper in and the zinc ou'st.
removing the zinc will also remove about an equal amount of tin.
so put the tin in after making the ZN. Cu-S trade.

Morning from Virginia. Do a bit of searching on scape metal yards for some babbit metal, I've found there are two types one has copper in it and I named it red babbit, There is another variety that have no idea what the alloy is so I named it blue babbit. I find it in 25 to 40 pound chunks, greasy and generally filthy. Either one combined with WW and water quenched will make heck of a hard bullet,

What is your ratio of Babbitt to WW?

I have about 3000 pounds of pipe lead (similar hardness to WW) and maybe 200 pounds of premium Diesel Babbitt. Time to mix up a batch and take Brinell readings.

I'm not real precise. I use five or six ingots, out of RCBS ingot mold of WWs and two of the babbit ingots. I'll drop the bullets in water. Out of a 375 Whelen with a bunch of IMR 4895.
Told wife that I could use pewter for bullet making, I now have several hundred pounds of it. I'll fill you in on the results next spring. The same babbit alloy makes one heck of a bullet for 243 and 30-06

Thanks!

Sounds like 5 parts WW and 2 parts Babbitt.

When you can find it anymore, running straight Linotype makes an extremely hard bullet also. I don't have my Brinell chart or records here at the house but I have used it extensively in my 44 mags.+ several "thumper" rifle cals., i.e. 470 N.E.