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cast bullet mould and diameter for 308 Win

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23 May 2019, 19:16
shootaway
cast bullet mould and diameter for 308 Win
Have any suggestions? Would .323 be a good choice?
24 May 2019, 06:38
Uncle Grinch
.323 is way too big for the 308 Win. I typically size my cast bullets at .311 or smaller for commercial 308’s. Milsurps may be larger, up to .314. You need to slug your barrel to determine what yours is. Measure then size up to .002 larger. Ex... .308 would be .310. Your alloy also plays apart in bullet fit. Experiment and see what works. IMO most cast work best between 1600 - 1800 fps.


Shoot Safe,
Mike

NRA Endowment Member
24 May 2019, 10:14
vzerone
It's not so much fit the groove diameter, albeit the bullet should be larger then the groove diameter, but fit the throat. Example: say the throat is .312 it's hard to fit a bullet into it that larger then that. It will force you to seat your bullet deeper and we don't want that.
24 May 2019, 18:08
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
It's not so much fit the groove diameter, albeit the bullet should be larger then the groove diameter, but fit the throat. Example: say the throat is .312 it's hard to fit a bullet into it that larger then that. It will force you to seat your bullet deeper and we don't want that.

I was thinking of slugging the bore and going .02 greater.
24 May 2019, 22:06
Uncle Grinch
That’s a good start. With cast “boolits”, as we call them, there are many variables. The bullet type, i.e., bore riding or blunt nose may cause fit issues with you throat.

Keep it simple and change one thing at a time.


Shoot Safe,
Mike

NRA Endowment Member
25 May 2019, 21:27
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Grinch:
That’s a good start. With cast “boolits”, as we call them, there are many variables. The bullet type, i.e., bore riding or blunt nose may cause fit issues with you throat.

Keep it simple and change one thing at a time.

Thanks good to know.
28 May 2019, 20:53
vzerone
Did you bother reading the dimension specifications of those two bullets? They are 8mm bullets and way too fat for a 308, unless you had something else in mind?
28 May 2019, 21:07
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
Did you bother reading the dimension specifications of those two bullets? They are 8mm bullets and way too fat for a 308, unless you had something else in mind?


Sorry for the error.
29 May 2019, 14:25
shootaway
What do you think of these?

[URL= ]1[/URL]

[URL= ]3[/URL]
[URL= ]4[/URL]
11 June 2019, 18:35
shootaway
I ordered this one.

[URL= ]1[/URL]
12 June 2019, 09:50
Lamar
you must have a long throat.
the 31-165 A is drawn expressly for the 308.
it has almost the same shape as above.
but is cut for the shorter ball seat area of the 308's throat, and has enough room for OAL adjustment for a new rifle or a used rifles throat shape.
it also runs from whatever regular speeds for cast is, up through 24-2500 fps no problem, and is really only limited by the flat nose shape Tom cuts.
12 June 2019, 14:54
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
you must have a long throat.
the 31-165 A is drawn expressly for the 308.
it has almost the same shape as above.
but is cut for the shorter ball seat area of the 308's throat, and has enough room for OAL adjustment for a new rifle or a used rifles throat shape.
it also runs from whatever regular speeds for cast is, up through 24-2500 fps no problem, and is really only limited by the flat nose shape Tom cuts.

Thanks for the advice.I'll try seating it a little deeper in the case.If that does not work,I'll order the one you suggested.
16 June 2019, 04:42
admiral
I don't even bother slugging the bores of modern (post WW2)sporting rifles anymore. I just measure the inside neck diameter of a fired case from a full power load. That tells you what diameter cast bullet your chamber can accept. We all know that a jacketed bullet falls down inside the neck of a fired case which has already sprung back from the chamber wall.
17 June 2019, 09:58
Lamar
you run into a couple of problems doing that.
1. if you get a thicker lot of brass it won't chamber.
2. where does all that extra lead go?
it becomes an issue at the back of the bullet when it tries squeezing into the barrel.
your then forced to chase the alloy and diameter and load details looking for just the right combination to get the best accuracy.

doing the work to center the bullet properly through a combination of case fitment, proper diameter, and bullet design is gonna move you down the road a lot further.
17 June 2019, 20:11
vzerone
Lamar, Bob, Joe and I have been doing that for years. It works! Geargnasher was trying to figure out how Joe got a .313 bullet to shoot from an M1A with a .312 throat.
18 June 2019, 12:55
The Dane
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
you must have a long throat.
the 31-165 A is drawn expressly for the 308.
it has almost the same shape as above.
but is cut for the shorter ball seat area of the 308's throat, and has enough room for OAL adjustment for a new rifle or a used rifles throat shape.
it also runs from whatever regular speeds for cast is, up through 24-2500 fps no problem, and is really only limited by the flat nose shape Tom cuts.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try seating it a little deeper in the case. If that does not work,I'll order the one you suggested.


Carefull with that!
Do not seat the bullet to deep and do not get the gascheck under the shoulder. It might scrape of and stay in the barrel and the next shot will wreak havoc on the gun.
Does'nt happen often (at all) but once is to much.
18 June 2019, 20:27
vzerone
quote:
Originally posted by The Dane:
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
you must have a long throat.
the 31-165 A is drawn expressly for the 308.
it has almost the same shape as above.
but is cut for the shorter ball seat area of the 308's throat, and has enough room for OAL adjustment for a new rifle or a used rifles throat shape.
it also runs from whatever regular speeds for cast is, up through 24-2500 fps no problem, and is really only limited by the flat nose shape Tom cuts.

Thanks for the advice. I'll try seating it a little deeper in the case. If that does not work,I'll order the one you suggested.


Carefull with that!
Do not seat the bullet to deep and do not get the gascheck under the shoulder. It might scrape of and stay in the barrel and the next shot will wreak havoc on the gun.
Does'nt happen often (at all) but once is to much.


Dane I don't like to have to seat a gaschecked bullet below the neck base (as we call it) but I have. Me and my constituents have never had a problem with it. Wouldn't you think the gas pressure keeps it seated and pushes it out of the cartridge along with the bullet? Have you ever had it happen?

Vince
30 June 2019, 00:48
dpcd
Another point for those who have never cast bullets.
yes. bullets.
Even though you buy a mold of a certain dimension; the bullets will vary in diameters as the lead alloy is changed. Molds are only good for one specific alloy. Know what that is when you buy a mold.
03 July 2019, 08:03
Lamar
good point.
but there are a lot of ways to manipulate diameter and even a final after cast diameter.

talk to enough cast bullet guys and eventually some of them will tell you about old bullets [loaded ammo] not chambering because parts [usually the nose because it isn't squeezed into place by the case] of them finally got too big.
06 July 2019, 16:22
shootaway
[URL= ]308Win[/URL]
16 July 2019, 02:26
shootaway
[URL= ]308 rounds[/URL]
17 July 2019, 10:17
NormanConquest
True dpcd. There are variations in the alloys + moulds; but here is where the top punch + sizing die comes into play. But taking it one step further, doing a bore slug will give you the REAL sizing die you need. I have sizing dies for 7MM that range from .284 to .288. I must confess that most bbls come in the .286 range but they are all different. I know we're splitting hairs here but that is where accuracy lies.IMO


Never mistake motion for action.
17 July 2019, 20:27
Lamar
are you getting any engraving with them that short?
it doesn't hurt for the bullet to be touching the lands or ball seat area, its usually helpful actually.
17 July 2019, 20:56
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
are you getting any engraving with them that short?
it doesn't hurt for the bullet to be touching the lands or ball seat area, its usually helpful actually.


The bolt will not close if seated any longer.I have not shot them yet.
17 July 2019, 22:46
carpetman1
dpcd I call them bullets too. Another forum does have bumper stickers with "boolits" on it. Possibly a couple of people in the town would know what it means and the rest would think what an idiot. I have seen signs of people that do backhoe work that say "backhole" work. I also saw a sign, someone selling boiled peanuts that read "bolied" peanuts. I put using "boolits" in the same category.
26 July 2019, 03:18
shootaway
I shot them now a couple of times.The 50yd offhand groups are a little large but that could be coming from something else besides the cast bullet.I will shoot these from my other rifle and see how they shoot in that.
27 July 2019, 06:21
vzerone
You need to be a little more scientific about shooting them, say off a bench to see what they really do. Then, providing they shoot good, shoot offhand because that more then likely is the way you'll shoot when hunting.
08 August 2019, 23:26
shootaway
I shot them today from a different rifle -my Lothar Walther barrelled rifle.I shot 8 rds at fifty yards offhand and checked the group out of my spotting scope.To my surprise It was only about 2-3 inches large.The group got 3 to 4 times larger as I continued firing.That must be due to fouling.
09 August 2019, 04:06
vzerone
What bullet lube are you using and do you know what velocity you are shooting at?
09 August 2019, 14:44
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
What bullet lube are you using and do you know what velocity you are shooting at?


I have not chronod them.

According to a table I have down-loaded(same powder,powder charge and bullet weight), my 170gr bullet should have a velocity around 1880fps.I use pure beeswax with a little olive oil added to lube the bullets.



09 August 2019, 19:57
vzerone
Thanks for the report back. In my opinion and experience I don't believe your lube is up to the task. It is for a few shots. Did you examine the bore or clean it after the shooting and find any leading? If I were you I would try a commercial lube. There are many out there and that's your decision as to which to buy. Try some and see if you get the same accuracy degrading the more you shoot.
09 August 2019, 21:31
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
Thanks for the report back. In my opinion and experience I don't believe your lube is up to the task. It is for a few shots. Did you examine the bore or clean it after the shooting and find any leading? If I were you I would try a commercial lube. There are many out there and that's your decision as to which to buy. Try some and see if you get the same accuracy degrading the more you shoot.


Have some RCBS rifle lube on hand.The beeswax works great with my 458WM.I will try my 308 cast bullets with the RCBS lube next time I shoot.
10 August 2019, 00:50
vzerone
The gun you shot that you said fouled was it a 308 caliber?
10 August 2019, 01:22
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
The gun you shot that you said fouled was it a 308 caliber?


I tried my cast 308 bullets in two 308 rifles with the same type of barrel except one is a Krieger and the other a Lothar Walther.The LW shoots better with both jacketed and cast bullets.Last week I shot the cast bullets from the Krieger and they shot poorly.The Krieger has a clean bore to start.This week I shot the same bullets from the LW and they shot very good at first but the group gradually spread so I guess it fouled(first 8 shots grouped within a couple of inches).The LW bore was not cleaned prior to shooting.
10 August 2019, 03:32
vzerone
Yup definitely try that different lube after cleaning your barrel. Takes some shots for lube to season the barrel too you know.
10 August 2019, 08:25
Lamar
you could also put less lube on the bullet.
cut down to one groove full.
then cut down to just the area above the gas check.
yes that is enough lube.
10 August 2019, 20:09
shootaway
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
you could also put less lube on the bullet.
cut down to one groove full.
then cut down to just the area above the gas check.
yes that is enough lube.


I am going to try that too.
10 August 2019, 23:17
Lamar
let us know how it's going.
I could go into a 20 paragraph dissertation on lube.
it's make-up and how/when/where/why it works, or doesn't, but you don't want to hear it I'm sure.
10 August 2019, 23:39
vzerone
My opinion on what Lamar said is they didn't make a multiple lube groove bullets just for looks. They intended all the grooves be filled. Now the thing is that depends on the type of lube you fill those grooves with. If it's a too slippery type of lube then all those grooves add up to bad results. If you have the correct type lube to lube all the grooves then it works fine. Thing is finding that lube.

That lube you've been using, beeswax with little olive oil is not much of a lube. If you're approaching 2000 fps it's, in my opinion, not up to the task. A lube that I don't think is made any longer, Javelina 50/50 Beeswax/Alox was a decent lube in that velocity range. There is more Alox in that beeswax then just a little bit such as you mentioned your olive oil. Beeswax is the basis for many lubes, but not alone. I'm not talking about black powder lubes. You don't want a lube that has high viscosity. Another lube that was pretty good is the old NRA lube, one of the original ones, which was 50/50 Beeswax and Vaseline. The OLD VASELINE THAT WAS DARK YELLOW OR BROWN that's not on the shelves anymore. You can order vast amounts of it from foreign countries such as India. The new highly refined white Vaseline is not good for this lube anymore. I've been using a soap lube made by my cousin. It's equal volume mixtures of Ivory bar soap, Beeswax, and a Vaseline he makes that is basically like that yellow/brown Vaseline I mentions. There is a touch of Castor oil in it. You might also look at some of LARS lubes. Another good lube is LBT BLUE. It comes in soft and hard. Go with the soft as I feel the hard is geared more towards high velocity rifle shooting. The amount of different lube concoctions out there is mind boggling.

Now if you try Lamars recommendation keep an eye on your bore for leading. I'm worred that since it's not a super lube that lessening the amount of it may lead to leading. Hopefully, maybe, it will shoot better for you.
11 August 2019, 03:57
vzerone
quote:
Originally posted by vzerone:
My opinion on what Lamar said is they didn't make a multiple lube groove bullets just for looks. They intended all the grooves be filled. Now the thing is that depends on the type of lube you fill those grooves with. If it's a too slippery type of lube then all those grooves add up to bad results. If you have the correct type lube to lube all the grooves then it works fine. Thing is finding that lube.

That lube you've been using, beeswax with little olive oil is not much of a lube. If you're approaching 2000 fps it's, in my opinion, not up to the task. A lube that I don't think is made any longer, Javelina 50/50 Beeswax/Alox was a decent lube in that velocity range. There is more Alox in that beeswax then just a little bit such as you mentioned your olive oil. Beeswax is the basis for many lubes, but not alone. I'm not talking about black powder lubes. You don't want a lube that has high viscosity. Another lube that was pretty good is the old NRA lube, one of the original ones, which was equal volumes of Beeswax, paraffin, and Vaseline. The OLD VASELINE THAT WAS DARK YELLOW OR BROWN that's not on the shelves anymore. You can order vast amounts of it from foreign countries such as India. The new highly refined white Vaseline is not good for this lube anymore. I've been using a soap lube made by my cousin. It's equal volume mixtures of Ivory bar soap, Beeswax, and a Vaseline he makes that is basically like that yellow/brown Vaseline I mentions. There is a touch of Castor oil in it. You might also look at some of LARS lubes. Another good lube is LBT BLUE. It comes in soft and hard. Go with the soft as I feel the hard is geared more towards high velocity rifle shooting. The amount of different lube concoctions out there is mind boggling.

Now if you try Lamars recommendation keep an eye on your bore for leading. I'm worred that since it's not a super lube that lessening the amount of it may lead to leading. Hopefully, maybe, it will shoot better for you.