The Accurate Reloading Forums
custom molds
27 May 2004, 01:51
DE Hillyercustom molds
First, I want to thank all who do the work on the custom molds! Now that you are all a-glow with pride and a sense of accomplishment- "Let's do some more!'
Since the Lee tumble lube bullet works so well in my .357 rifle.... I would like to have a tumble lube design for an 8mm plinker- you know- a plinker! A 140 to 150 grain , non gas check design. The .357 design ( round nose) sized up to 8mm ( hmmmm... what size to work well with all?) would do for me. Any thoughts? Dale
A nice plain base for the 30-30 would be very nice. Lee tumble lube body and the nose of a 311041
lyman in a 6 cavity LEE mould.
Quote:
A nice plain base for the 30-30 would be very nice. Lee tumble lube body and the nose of a 311041
lyman in a 6 cavity LEE mould.
That's easy. Aladin sent me a detailed drawing of the 311041 and Lee should come across with the details of the tumblelube grooves soon. So who will step up to the plate and orchestrate the final design decisions and take the orders and send out the moulds. Let me know, I'll do the CAD work if needed.
27 May 2004, 15:45
RicochetOf course, that would make a nice plinking bullet for lots of other .30s as well.
While you're waiting for your molds, you might try this...take most any plain base 35 cal. boolit and with filled lube grooves, shove it nose first thru a well tapered 8mm size die. You've just got a plinker ready to load and shoot. If you're using a SWC you may need a little lube on the nose. I use this method to get plinkers for my .32 Remington and for short range plinking they work well. Lyman's 357242's work dandy at either 92 or 125 grain size. Regards, Woody
28 May 2004, 01:58
DE HillyerHi All! Count me in for at least one mold. But I think 2 would be better! I like the tumble lube design- lube while you sleep!
I'm ready,willimg,able,err.... roger, wilco, over and out
dale
28 May 2004, 02:02
DE HillyerOppps! I would like a little shorter nose ( on this bullet) than a 311041
and a weight of 130 to 150. But I could be talked into something different- Dale
28 May 2004, 02:05
DE Hillyerhmm... note to me- finish thought before pushing send.
How about a 311410 tumble lube. this is my favorite plinking bullet. It feeds in eveything and has a decent BC ( for what it is, anyway) Dale
28 May 2004, 02:08
Rrusse11Gents,
Now I don't know if Lee can do them, but I would LOVE a 25 caliber 6 Cavity mould in a C258~80gr RF, I've got a buncha' stuff, a 25-20, 25-35, 25-36M,25-06, and a 256WinMag that are all crying out for some lead boolits.
And or something in a C380~200gr RF for the 38-55's.
I imagine there'd be takers on the 38-55, howzabout any other 25 caliber fans????????
Cheers,
R*2
28 May 2004, 02:36
Junior1942Quote:
Aladin sent me a detailed drawing of the 311041 and Lee should come across with the details of the tumblelube grooves soon.
Put my name (Junior Doughty) in the pot for a mold if this deal comes through. A six-cavity, tumble lube, plain base, 311041 or Lee C309-170-F @ 150 grs or 170 grs and minus the "C" sounds great to me.
Trk-
Draw away. Things to shoot for: 160gr to 165gr weight, slightly shorter nose at .301", body of .311" plain base, tumble lube grooves, front band .05" to 07", rear band .08", body not longer than 30-30 neck length. All are as cast dimensions out of wheelweights.These dimensions will shoot in a large number of rifles because they are almost exactly the dimensions of the old Lyman 311241 which shoots up a storm in several of my rifles. I just don't like having to cast them at one a time. Anybody have any comments??
How about it Dale, are you going to head this?
I just might have to get in on this mold. I was tempted with the 180 gr .358, but since I have several 150-160 gr molds, and a 200, the 180 wasnt' that interesting.
I have the lee 115 gr 30 cal as a plinker for the wifes .308, but a ~150 tumble lube plainbase would be awesome.
Will this bullet be a rn, or have a meplat?
Paul-
Flat nose, sort of a shorter Lyman 311041 with tumble lube grooves if everybody agees.
On another note, Midway called me the other day about the Bator C225 molds that they were waiting on enough orders before ordering it. It's been about 1 year. I told here that I would buy one but it didn't seem to have enough interest so to take my name off. She couldn't tell me how many people had put one on back order. So I don't know how far or close it would be.
Just thoughts.
I'd get a 30cal tumble lube 6 cav mold. I guess I might have to get some liqued alox, never tried it yet.
The most accurate group I even fired with my 480 was a 310 gr LFN bullet lubed with tumble lube. 100 yds, 3 shots, 1 1/2" group. Not bad for a factory revolver and 4 cavity cherry cut mold.
Tumble lube works fine, and I can't think of any good reason that I've gotten away from using.
28 May 2004, 10:00
grumbleI'm in for the 30-30 boolit. I'd also be in for a small 25 cal for my 25-20.
Who's going to honcho the project(s)?
28 May 2004, 11:00
SlowpokeAll
Anyone remember what the maximum bullet length is that will fit in a lee six cavity ?
I would take a 30 cal. six cavity.
The Saeco 316 150 gr. might be another option to copy the profile from and add the tumble lube grooves.
I have no experience with plain base bullets in rifles, but have heard mumblings of base finning from the lands spoiling accuracy. Any thoughts?
28 May 2004, 12:40
DE HillyerHi to all! So many things to answer to!
I would rather someone more experienced do it. ( I couldn't run a train wreck!)
my thoughts on this:
1)Lee six cavity
2)tumble lube design with 50 to 65%( or more) micro bands to nose - I am hoping this would align better in microgroove barrels
3) as cast diameter of .311 or possibly .312 on the micro bands
4)nose diameter of at least .301
5) I would prefer a weight of 150 to 160 grains- but the difference would be minor to 165 grains
6) I would like to have a nose pour- BUT if that is not to be, at least extra effort should be made by Lee so the bases are machined in square- or is this even a problem?
7)I would like a fairly thick bottom band- something on the order of the Keith type bullets- if memory serves me ( but not too much)
8) I would like to see a discussion on the effects of tapering the nose diameter to the driving bands....and do we need a 'trash groove'?
9) I would like to see a taper on the heal of the bullet for several reasons....I would give you room to machine (repair) the top of the mold without getting into the driving bands... the tapered bullet edges start in the case better... and I think the tapered edges are more consistent ( say accurate) as they leave the muzzle. I don't necessarily want a boattail but one should tell it has a taper. This also gets any casting/ sprue plate imperfections away from the LAST driving band
10) For whoever does this, I suggest someone already experienced and this person should recieve a donation of $5 for each mold. ( At least this much) If we have 50 molds- he would have at least $250 for his time/trouble. This is after all expenses.
11) I am very interested in this mold. we can buy/make tumble lube in bulk, I think
12) can you guys say,'more shooting- less bench work'? How about squirrel or rabbit load? Does tumble lube drip off in hot weather? that I don't know but if it don't- oh boy! oh, for the question of plain base leading problems- I have a 31410 130 grain carbine bullet. I can't find anything it won't shoot decent in as long as pressures/velocities are low and the bore is smaller than the 'as cast' diameter of the slug. But you can't use it in your leverfuns- too pointy. But it never leads- never! 500 rounds and a wet patch followed by a dry one & the bore looks new. With the loads I shoot thru it, you will wear the trigger off before you wear the bore out!
Dale
Quote:
Trk-
Draw away. ... Anybody have any comments??
I'll get the drawing rolling. I'm still waiting on Lee for the dimensions of their grooves.
It may be that we could have two versions of this - it all depends on numbers and leader(s) to coordinate it.
45 2.1 - It's very easy for me to put a drawing together since you've given very clear instructions. It will be a curiosity to name this the 311041-160-45-2.1 though.
Quote:
Gents,
Now I don't know if Lee can do them, but I would LOVE a 25 caliber 6 Cavity mould in a C258~80gr RF, I've got a buncha' stuff, a 25-20, 25-35, 25-36M,25-06, and a 256WinMag that are all crying out for some lead boolits.
And or something in a C380~200gr RF for the 38-55's.
I imagine there'd be takers on the 38-55, howzabout any other 25 caliber fans????????
Cheers, R*2
I agree with you. There is a real need for a 25-20 80gr.
25-20 80gn? Well there ya went an dun it. I needs a new gun.
Well. Here's the STARTING point.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/164213.jpg45 2.1 - are you going to be THE ONE to manage this one?
28 May 2004, 15:53
OldfellerJumptrap, what sort of virulent mold making madness did you start up, oh way back when?
They're making up custom molds now faster than horny bunny rabbits can make little bitty baby rabbits feets.
LEE is complaining they can't run production mold runs for all the custom runs (poor babies, you make 2-3x more money off a custom mold run, so why shouldn't you do our customs first?)
We are now making up bullet molds, not because we have some unique rifle feeding needs that are not being met, but because it amuses us and we simply don't have one just like it in our CUSTOM MOLD COLLECTION. For shame !!
Remember 6.5's back when there weren't any but the one (1)Lyman? Remember 8mms back when there were only 3 types offered, period?
Remember shipping so many molds and custom sized 6.5 sizing dies that we ate up the entire world's supply of sizing dies and ran H&I into backorder for nearly a year world-wide? Ate up all the 6.5 gas checks for over 6 mos?
Naw, there ain't no demand for this custom bullet mold nonsense .....
Jump, you created a monster -- now how are you going to housebreak it?
<g> Oldfeller
28 May 2004, 16:01
DE HillyerHi All!
Without stepping on any toes and without malice of any kind- I suggest the name of 'Accurate #1' to identify our creation ( Dr Frankenstein would be proud!) This way, any future modifications can be described as 'Accurate # 1.1'. or 'Accurate 1.9'
Another goofy thought! I would like this bullet design to reflect a mininium of sharp edges. Why, you ask? Sharp edges are where most of your bullet imperfections are. I think that cast rifle bullets need to be as perfect as possible. especially at higher velocities. Rounded edges USUALLY fill out better for me. Any thoughts? Any better names? Dale
Just took some measurements. The lee 6 cavity block is 1.065" thick. I don't know what the minimum thickness should be at the mold base, but it seems 1/16" is prudent, so lets say max bullet length is 1.000". I measured my Lee 30 cal 115 mold, and the bullet is .600" long. Taking a SEWAG, I don't see why a 160 gr bullet couldn't be made in the 6 cavity mold.
If this mold comes to fruition, I just might have to finally pick myself up a 30-30.
29 May 2004, 01:19
DE HillyerHi All! After a good night's sleep, I have another name!
'Lovel plinker #1' (low velocity plinker #1) ( Oh, by the way- I had 3 beautiful women beating on my door all night but I finally got up at 3 am and let them out.) LOL!
I think I could live with a 160 grainer. Bob has the right ideas for the design. Let's do it. Dale
trk-
You have a PM.
As for manageing this, i'm not much of a people person! You will all probably get MAD if I do it. To get this mold like I want it, I might have to though. Dale, call me this weekend and lets talk about co-doing this.
29 May 2004, 02:06
DE HillyerHi Bob! sounds good!
I would like to start a list of desireable qualities for this bullet and work forward from there
accurate
easy casting ( no sharp edges or 'air' pockets)
balanced -( favorable bore riding to nose riding ratio)
absolutely correct diameters (min 309 bore to 311?)(min.301 nose to .302) with WW
at least a slight bevel base ( reasoning above)
it should feed in all guns
it should be safe in tubular magazines
it must fit in Lee mold dimentions
it must be something Lee can do
it probably should have a crimping groove
\
What have I forgot- everyone jump in here, Dale
Quote:
Bob!
co-doing = you do the work and I take the credit???? Dale
Dale-
You are exactly right when you placed the question mark after the above quote!!! HAHA. Anyway, I think we could do this together. Call! Saturday night is the best.
29 May 2004, 04:44
DE HillyerHi to Bob & All!
I would be glad to give my opinion on the design of the bullet and help in any way but I also would like someone experienced with talking/ communicating to Lee to do the ordering. Contacts and friends matter in that area. trk is the guy who, I think, is going to do the CAD ( this means something different than it used to
) drawing. Let's not forget him.
Can you guys imagine 'me' helping with ordering the mold???(Why is the sprue plate mounted on the BOTTOM of the mold?)LOL
In truth, I have been happy with the jobs done by the guys who did the last custom molds. Their experience in this matter should not be underestimated. And their help would be greatly appreciated. If, for some reason, they do not wish to actually 'do' this project.... maybe they could steer who ever does it in the right direction.
to trk- is there a way to estimate the size/weight bullet that will fit in Lee 6 cavity molds?
Speak up all. Dale
I'll give you a call saturday evening,Bob.
29 May 2004, 06:24
floodgateDEH: Re: your suggestions 7 and 9, I ran across an article in an old "Arms and the Man" (predecessor to the "American Rifleman") describing several
cast bullet designs of the early '20's. One in .30 cal. by Harry Pope had a tapered heel; not a bevel base, but more like a short boat-tail going from a bit over groove diameter down to bore diameter on the rear half of the oversized base band. This was not for aerodynamics, but th eliminate the "feathers" on the bullet base caused by engraving in the rifling. I would like to see a RN .30 cal PB bullet (maybe with your tapered heel, and a meplat like #311407) that would cast oversize to 0.315" or so, to cover all the oversize .30's, 7.62's and 7.65s in 1:20 tin/lead through WW alloys, in the 165 - 180-gr. range for light-load plinking and target work at 1500 - 1750 fps. Tumble-lubing should be OK, and Lee should also be persuaded to offer push-thru dies in 0.001" intervals from about 0.310" through 0.315" as standard items. This would keep a lot of our "Old Warhorses" happy (and maybe a few "Cowboys", too. floodgate
Bob, Dale et al. -
Bob - r14 dwg etc. is in the email.
Name of boolet - not my decision, until I have to name a file in which to save the drawing.
Estimated weight of the 31141 as drawn in WW is 177.86 grains based on a volume of 0.0460 cu in and someone's estimate of WW being 2779 grains per cu in.
Length is .983, has a GC so it could go a bit heavier if needed in the 6 holer.
Work it out on the name and other decisions, if you want I can do the CAD work - your choice, I just want one.
Bob -
I sent you 5 emails.
First, with 3 attachments - bounced.
2nd, with no attachments - not yet returned.
3rd, with Excel attachment - bounced.
4th, with DWG attachment - bounced.
5th, with jpg attachment - bounced.
Conclusion- get one of the free emails (not Yahoo) that will accept my emails with attachments.
Quote:
DEH: I would like to see a RN .30 cal PB bullet (maybe with your tapered heel, and a meplat like #311407) that would cast oversize to 0.315" or so, to cover all the oversize .30's, 7.62's and 7.65s in 1:20 tin/lead through WW alloys, in the 165 - 180-gr. range for light-load plinking and target work at 1500 - 1750 fps. Tumble-lubing should be OK, and Lee should also be persuaded to offer push-thru dies in 0.001" intervals from about 0.310" through 0.315" as standard items. This would keep a lot of our "Old Warhorses" happy (and maybe a few "Cowboys", too. floodgate
I like this idea of a .315 cast diameter for all those "30 something" calibers. 
29 May 2004, 17:11
DE Hillyertrk wrote:
'Work it out on the name and other decisions, if you want I can do the CAD work - your choice, I just want one. '
LOL! Now I might be a cad! but I know little of CAD work. We need you! Let's get a preliminery drawing- modify, improve, etc. and see if we can get enough for a special run. I think I will take 3, if it looks good. 2 for me & 1 for another. ( No more neck ties for Xmas this year!) LOL Dale
Dale -
The CAD work is the easy part - that's why I volunteered to do it - it just takes time in applying rules of design and drafting to the print.
This:
http://www.hunt101.com/img/164213.jpg is close to the original 311041/31141.
Now the hard part - what is the optimal weight?
(I've heard 150-160, which means we will shorten it.)
and, what should the forward and base band diameters be?
(.311 and .312 are not uncommon but there are lots of variations that work, a decision needs to be made.)
I'm going to ASSUME the alloy of choice will be 'modern wheel weights."
I don't yet have the 'standard dimensions' of Lee's tumble lube grooves - someone out there probably has a Lee loading manual that has them in it, or Lee may get around to answering my email.
Then, at the end, comes the part of collecting checks and negotiating with Lee. I'll do my part - I'll send someone a check and be VERY gratefull to them.
(VBG)
30 May 2004, 17:32
475/480I would like to get in on this deal,I assume this would work on a REM 700 30-06.
Thanks Sean
31 May 2004, 12:35
NewtireHey Dale,
How about the Lee 150 gr. FN they already make? I have one of those and it's just about the most accurate bullet I have in .30 cal. as far as the lighter ones go. I'm really hooked on the Lyman 311041 as being the most ackuayarette but that non-bearing nose makes me think of something along the lines of the Lee 113 gr. lengthened out. I'd like mine with a gas check-no pickles, mayo/not mustard. Supersized/4 or 6-cavity...a regular Pepsi.
31 May 2004, 14:02
JumptrapTook me long enough to reply to this one heh?
All I can say is; It's Alive, it's Alive! Ooo ya, and look at it's beeg slonginwacker!
Honest to god, I had those 6.5's made up because the off the shelf stuff was too small in diameter. Sad thing is, the fat bastards failed to shoot much better. There is a learning curve involved, some take it to it quicker than others.
I wouldn't waste the sweat of my cojones trying to dream up another 30 caliber mould, a reinvention of the wheel.
I could pass on some wisdom I have acquired, but what's the use? Just a waste of hunt and pecking. There's a fool born every minute and a there's man to take him..aka, Lee, Inc.