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Gas Checks?
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I am in the process of getting casting and bullet making equipment and was wondering when should gas checks be used or should they be used all the time. Also, what I have seen in the various catalogs ar gas checks in various sizes, ie: 22, 35 44 45. Are these form fitted during the sizing/lube process. Also who is a good source for these gas checks?
 
Posts: 2144 | Location: Monee, Ill. USA | Registered: 11 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I prefer gaschecks for all rifle bullets and they help with HOT pistol bullets as well. Best brand of check IMHO is Hornady. Lot tougher than Lyman. More calibers available than you list.
 
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Pecos sez it right about the Hornady checks-- they crimp on during the lubing operation or can be seated in a single process using a check seater [which does nothing more than limit the downward travel of the luber ram]. Lyman sells the check seater-- it makes for a separate process but check seating during the lubing operation is fine.

When to use them? For rifles around 1600 is the normal limit for PB bullets-- give or take depending on barrel Q etc. Revolvers something less but again many factors mitigate the actual limit per each gun.

Checks add strength to the bearing surface of a bullet-- translated means accuracy. If a PB [plain base] bullet serves your purpose, your one less process during bullet prep. Some find check designs shoot fine for them in their guns sans checks added. Again- depends on your needs.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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RAAMW:
According to Veral Smith in his book "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets" Gas Checks reduce the pressure when compared to plain base bullets. So if you are going to be loading max loads in your handgun loads I would go with gas checks. And yes Hornady Gas Checks are the best. They crimp on where as Lyman's do not.

Outback

[ 06-17-2002, 04:31: Message edited by: Outback ]
 
Posts: 119 | Location: Highland, IN USA | Registered: 18 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Hey Pecos,

I have this read somewhere, or the aliens have put a false memory in my brain: It is unsafe to use a gas checked bullet in a bottleneck cartridge if the base of the bullet is below the shoulder (gas check protruding into the powder space). The author, or the gray creatures, gave as the reason for this advice that the gas check can fall off inside the case and not get shot out of the barrel when the gun is fired. The gas check could then be a barrel obstruction for the next bullet coming its way. Does this mean I can't use heavy for caliber gas checked bullets in my 30-06?

H. C.
 
Posts: 3691 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 23 May 2001Reply With Quote
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Henry, I think this memory is the result of an alien abduction. Are there any strange marking on your body? [Big Grin]

No, seriously, I wouldn't worry about this. I have literally shot MULTIPLE 1,000s of gas checked bullets without a thought for this issue and I know a LOT of them were hanging below the neck. This tells me that this concept is either an Old Wive's tale begun by an Old Wife who didn't shoot cast bullets...or else I'm just DAMN LUCKY. You be the judge.

I DO vastly prefer Hornady "crimp on" gas checks because they DON'T fall off. I have recovered a lot of them from various animals or objects and about 95% of the time the gas check is STILL attached.

Tell you a funny story about how cheap I am that sort of relates to this question. Years ago I went to a friend's house and he had just finished loading some shotshells. He seemed a little upset and when I asked what was wrong he told me he accidentally took the SHOT measure off his press and dumped it into his 4 lb keg of Herco! He said there was no way in hell he could dig all the shot out of the powder and I agreed. Next he said he was going to have to throw the whole bloody keg out. [Eek!]

I said GIVE IT TO ME. He did and I loaded the powder from that keg for many years before I used it up. Could never tell any difference. And most of what I loaded the stuff in was my .38 Spl that I used to shoot by the ton.

So, call me a crazy, cheap bastard and I can't deny it. But obviously it worked fine. Now go forth and liter the land with cast bullets.
 
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by HenryC470:
Hey Pecos,

I have this read somewhere, or the aliens have put a false memory in my brain: It is unsafe to use a gas checked bullet in a bottleneck cartridge if the base of the bullet is below the shoulder (gas check protruding into the powder space). The author, or the gray creatures, gave as the reason for this advice that the gas check can fall off inside the case and not get shot out of the barrel when the gun is fired. The gas check could then be a barrel obstruction for the next bullet coming its way. Does this mean I can't use heavy for caliber gas checked bullets in my 30-06?

H. C.

Henry you happen to be correct. While a RE-mote possiblility, even some largish Hornady's [certain lot numbers] can fall off and settle into the chg-- and what you decribe can/HAS happened. I know my good friend Pecos always checks all his checks to make sure they're securely attached-- which would negate the problem.

I've had several lot numbers of Hornady checks which fit different sized check shanks loose enough to come off. Remember though I size my 30 caliber checks at 312 and this would account for some of this discrepancy. It's just a good idea to make sure your checks are secure before seating. Nuff said..
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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[Eek!] Actually, Aladin, Ole Pecos is far to lazy to check much of anything most of the time...at least I was back in my hayday. Now I spend so much time checking everything that I don't get to shoot very often and I am probably making the worst ammo of my life. Go figure that! [Confused]

I know that a lot of the Lyman gas checks I put on years ago were just literally held on with spit and bullet lube and I always suspected some of the devils must have fallen off after being seated. But I don't know for a fact if they did or didn't, natually.

All I can say is I've never seen or heard this phenomenon happening to anyone. Which is NOT to contradict Aladin and for sure is NOT to say it couldn't happen.

That's why I stopped using anything but Hornady gas checks. But as Aladin suggests, even Hornady checks may not fit some bullets well.

It may be more of a concern in cartridges with short wimpy necks. I know Aladin and I both have shot a good portion of our gas checked bullets in the /06 which is blessed with a "man sized" case neck. Something like a little short necked .243 might be a cartridge to worry about.

Anyhow, I've said more than I know for sure already. [Eek!]
 
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Aladin, now that I think about this, I believe I remember a few time of firing my /06 at some critter or a revenuer or something and SEEING a puff of dust a few feet in front of me. I always assumed this little puff was a gas check that came off on the way down the tube.

Have you ever noticed such a thing? In fact, I think I've seen a gas check go thru a TARGET all by it's lonesome. Or am I just halucinating tonight.

I think it's past my bed time. I'm getting wacky on you. [Eek!]
 
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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I had a Springfield Krag that would lose the gascheck (Hornadys) on every shot. The checks were tight and the crown was good. Never did figure it out, maybe the new owner did.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Pecos I haven't had a check stick in the bore nor have I noticed one come off in flight per a target hole or dust raised near me. But have heard of this from reliable sources and think it's a factor to keep in mind. Just another cast DE-tale.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by aladin:
Pecos I haven't had a check stick in the bore nor have I noticed one come off in flight per a target hole or dust raised near me. But have heard of this from reliable sources and think it's a factor to keep in mind. Just another cast DE-tale.

Aladin, with the light of day out there this morning I'm thinking I dreamed that stuff about a gascheck going thru a target. [Big Grin] They aren't the most aerodynamic thing ever built and the idea of a gas check trailing a bullet any distance to a target seems laughable to me today.

But I sure think I've seen a couple raise dust in front of me a time or two. Back in the old days I was pretty sloppy and had one thing in mind. "Throw it together and get back out in the field!" Anything was possible then. [Eek!] But damn it was fun and we proved if you put enough lead in the air, you are bound to hit something. [Roll Eyes]

As you suggest, another little detail cast shooters should be mindful off. I think damned unlikely, but sloppy reloading shouldn't go unpunished at any time.
 
Posts: 19677 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
<Janne B>
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Well, if the gas pressure is high enough to drive the bullet throw the barrel, it just must be enough to even drive the little baster too gas-check through it too! Can�t think of anything else;-)Even if it is loose or sitting on it�s place!
Br
JB
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Janne B:
Well, if the gas pressure is high enough to drive the bullet throw the barrel, it just must be enough to even drive the little baster too gas-check through it too! Can’t think of anything else;-)Even if it is loose or sitting on it’s place!
Br
JB

Thing is- say the little bugger falls off the shank, settles to the bottom of the chg and then you drop the hammer. Combustion gases go all directions and keeps said check from going with the slug- those gases essentially pinning that check against the case head- that check finally migrating into the bore but not clearing it. It HAS happended. Then ya got a potential mess- maybe a ruptured barrel or worse. Rare- sure. Something to be aware of- yes. Just another cast DE-tale.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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GC's WILL fall off. I have a 257314 for a 25-20 and managed to clip a wire on the chrono with a gas check. 1600, 1600, then all of a sudden, 3500 fps, then 600 fps, then, what the hey? Closer inspection revealed the clipped wire, AND several other hits on the screens. Out of all the moulds I have this is the onliest one what does this, with both Hornady and Lyman. Must be the bullet base too small to hold the check. One of these days I'll play around with it and open it up enough to accomodate the Hornady crimp on check. sundog

btw, I repaired the chrono, and it works just fine although it still has several GC indentations.
 
Posts: 287 | Location: Koweta Mission, OK | Registered: 28 August 2001Reply With Quote
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