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Anyone Here Powder Coats Cast Bullets For Rifles??
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A friend here likes to shoot cast bullets out of some of his older rifles.

He is asking about powder coating for higher velocity loads.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.


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Posts: 66765 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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Saeed, I can't give you a definitive answer about if powder coating a cast lead bullet allow you to shoot it at a higher velocity than you normally could with a traditional lubed cast lead bullet.

I'm basically in the testing/learning stage of that myself. What I do know is that with tradition lubed cast lead bullets is that at some point with a given bullet which can have lots of variables itself such as bullet design, weight, length, BHN, lube used as well as plain base or gas check that the RPM forces imparted on that bullet by the barrels twist rate affect accuracy when a certain velocity is reached as the velocity increase so do the RPM's an all the imperfections unseen by the human eye accentuate the wobble, yaw as the bullet leaves the bore an accuracy goes south.

All I can say is that in my rifles that have 1:10 twist bores using traditional lubed bullets usable velocity/accuracy falls somewhere in between 1800 and 2000 fps. before accuracy goes south. In my 30-30 which has a 1:12 twist bore I can pretty much shoot a 170 gr. cast lead bullet at factory velocity. So what I have to do as time permits is to use those same bullets PC'ed and see if I can push the velocity/accuracy threshold higher.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Saeed
have shot over 1000 cast bullets in my 416 Ruger, in itially I lubed them and was getting good accuracy running them with 30 gns of AR 2205 for a muzzle velocity of 1500 fps...I could never get much accuracy when I wanted more velocity...bullets were not hard enough...then I tried PC those same bullets at 2000 fps were giving me a group of about 1.5 inches at 100 yards with no leading....but I need to experiment a LOT more
I think the days of lubing cast bullets are coming to an end....powder coating is far superior

Daniel
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Here is a batch of 215 gr. FN bullets from my Accurate mold I had cut for one of my Mosin rifles I have it PC'ed with Clear Gloss, gas checked and sized to .314"..


I just have to get a batch of both the PC and non PC version loaded up with some H4895 in various charge weight as see just how far I can push it.



Have some Lee 185 gr. RN I have PC'ed and checked as well to try in my SKS and Mosins as well.

 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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RES45
what GC are you useing....
also with those blue PC bullets are you sizing the nose of the bullets...can you fit/ push the nose of the pc bullet into the muzzle end of the barrel

Daniel
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by M 98:
RES45
what GC are you useing....
also with those blue PC bullets are you sizing the nose of the bullets...can you fit/ push the nose of the pc bullet into the muzzle end of the barrel

Daniel


The gas checks I get from http://www.sagesoutdoors.com/ The copper checks are standard 30 cal. Gator checks the Aluminum are his 303 Cal. checks which are slightly thicker and slightly larger inside dia. and go on the base of some coated bullets much easier than others.

The blue Lee 185 gr. bullets are coated with Smokes Carolina Blue an sized to .314" I can get the nose of the uncoated bullets to go into the muzzle on all my SKS and Mosin rifles but it takes a bit of pressure to do so, the coated bullet want, I do have an NOE .301" nose sizing bushing if I ever need it.

I haven't shot any of the coated bullets in my rifles as of yet but I have shot some that I just ran through the lubesizer and they shoot really good. Will be interesting to see how the PC'ed bullet shoot compared to the non PC'ed bullet, I will probably size the nose on a few as well using my nose sizing bushing and see if that makes a difference.

Here is a test target I shot at 50 yds. with the irons in my 91/30 using the Lee 185 gr. with LARS 2500+ traditional lube a Gator gas checks.

 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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RES 45
im having issues chambering my bullets when powder coated, as the nose becomes oversize and when the round is chambered it pushes the proj back into the case and the base of the bullet below the case neck, so i have bought some NOE nose bushings , so will see what that does

Daniel
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by M 98:
RES 45
im having issues chambering my bullets when powder coated, as the nose becomes oversize and when the round is chambered it pushes the proj back into the case and the base of the bullet below the case neck, so i have bought some NOE nose bushings, so will see what that does

Daniel


The only time I've had a problem with PC'ed bullets doing that is in a 9 mm semi-auto handgun using an RN bullet. It chambered fine using Alox/JPW TL or traditional lube but when PC'ed it stuck out too far an couldn't be seated any deeper, it was actually a Lee 125 gr. RNFP bullet so I just shoot it in 38 and 357 loads and it's not a problem. I ended up buying myself a 4 cavity NOE 124 gr. 9 mm TC mold and it works great.


Just courious what rifle you are shooting that bullet in? In my Mosin and SKS rifles the Lee 185 gr. RN want even touch the leads using the provided crimp groove. It's why I ended up having me a mold cut for the 91/30 so I could touch the leads and back it off a bit. I think the throat on that rifle made in 1933 was cut to accept the old 180 to 200 gr. RN bullets.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I shoot cast bullets in my satterlee arms 416 ruger, satterlee arms 375 ruger and a satterlee arms 06 and a M70 06

all the molds are cut to pretty tight tolarences , and all three bullets are nose / bore riding designs ,so now ive come up with the idea once the bullet is coated and the body sized, if the nose of the bullet will not snuggly be able to be pushed into the muzzle of the barrel...which it dosent , i will just size it till i get the correct nose diam and be done with it

with my 06 i have shot some absolute blinder groups.....5 shots @ 100 yards a touch over .25 moa, then i can shoot another 5 shot group and its 3-4 inches...explain that to me...im lost and bewildered

i have been useing the hi tek coating on rifle bullets , and for a while i thought that coating was the ants pants, , infact i was under the impression that it was better then powder coating, however im getting some unexplained results, so im thinking
i might go back to powder coating for rifle bullets
im running all three respective bullets 30 cal/200 gn @ 1500 fps 375 cal 300 gn @1500 fps and 416 cal 400 gn @ 1500

So yes next round will be sizing the nose so the bullets feed without issues
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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res...what method of PC are you using on them green slugs? thats about as fine a coating as i've seen yet!
 
Posts: 1532 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by john c.:
res...what method of PC are you using on them green slugs? that's about as fine a coating as I've seen yet!


Shake an Bake. Use a good quality powder and low humidity goes a long way to good coating.

I use a #5 plastic tube an lid.


Some cheap necklace beads I got a Walmart about 1" deep in the tub, and add about 1/2 TBSP of powder and shake well before adding bullets. More powder can be added if need but I only add about 1/4 tsp. and shake again. To much powder can cause it to clump up on the bullets.


Then I add about 50 to 75 bullets at a time and shake for 30 sec to 1 min.


Here are some 45ACP I did in the Yellow Green.


Then I place the bullets base first in my convection oven toaster tray that is lined non-stick aluminum foil dull side up and bake for 20 min. at 400 degrees.

The powder used to coat the 9 mm TC bullets is Smokes Yellow Green. Eastwood Powders has a Lime Green that is great as well.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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i PC my 45-70s 405 gr using smokes clear as the colored ones just come out too spotty. use his BBs too. or used to. now i pre heat them on top of the convection oven as its heating up then dump into the tub and shake w/no BBs. seems to get just as much powder on. also pre shake powder in tub b4 adding slugs. they come out looking good cause you can't see the clear on em much. the red and green and blue i just gave up on. even 2 and 3 repeats. urs are the best i've seen.
 
Posts: 1532 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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The Traffic Yellow, Orange don't coat for me very well either, the traffic Purple does pretty well with small bullets like 9mm or 38 cal. I love the clear coat he sells it's about as easy as it gets.

The two blues he sells along with the Yellow Green I have no problems with, don't know about the rest of his colors.

I watched several videos by Loads of Bacon and Fortunecookie45LC as they try lots of different color powders and bought some Med. Green and Maroon Red an will be coating some with those today. I will post some pics later on.

I have found that with Med to dark colors the pigment tends to migrate better and cover up missed spots while the lighter colors like Yellows and Oranges etc. want and are best sprayed on.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Here are some colors I like that shake and bake well.

L to R Smokes Clear Gloss,Eastwood Med. Green,Smokes Carolina Blue and Eastwood Maroon Red.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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RES45
what cal proj are those
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by M 98:
RES45
what cal proj are those


These are the Lee .312" 185 gr. RN bullets,I generally cast these from wheel weight alloy PC sometime I water quench after and size to .314"

I mainly shoot these in my Mosin M44 and M91/30 on on occasion in my SKS rifles.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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FWIW... went online looking for coating powders for my latest project and the net if FULL of You-tube vids on everything connected with powder coating bullets, what powders work best, several methods using several different "helping hands" objects to coat better and whether or not all that is necessary.

Check it out...one You-tube vid is worth umpteen gazillion words or so they say.

LUCK beer
 
Posts: 1211 | Registered: 25 January 2014Reply With Quote
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RES 45
what is your procedure with powder coated bullets and water quenching
What is the actual height of those aluminium GC

dANIEL
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by M 98:
RES 45
what is your procedure with powder coated bullets and water quenching
What is the actual height of those aluminium GC

dANIEL


With an alloy like straight wheel weights if I water quench them straight from the mold I get a BHN of around 18 to 22 in about 24 hrs. of course over time they will harden a few more BHN. Lots of variables like the makeup of the various metals in the wheel weights and the temperature of the bullet when it actually hit the water affect the final BHN.

Here is a good video on the subject of coating and quenching that should help. For the most part I just cast my bullets from alloy that will give me the desired BHN without quenching but on occasion I've been known to dump some coated bullet in a bucket of water to quench them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...PEDO5OlbTg8wPDuOtvBB

The 303 Aluminum checks are .0100" in height while the copper Gator checks are .070" in height. So basically the Aluminum checks are about 1/32" taller.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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RES 45
sorry what i was tryng to ask when quenchng P C bullets was, do you quenched them straight out of the oven, or do you powder coat them, let them cool and then heat them up again to 400 deg in the oven and then quench them.....what is your method of hardening P.C bullets
 
Posts: 1475 | Location: AUSTRALIA | Registered: 07 August 2001Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by M 98:
RES 45
sorry what i was tryng to ask when quenchng P C bullets was, do you quenched them straight out of the oven, or do you powder coat them, let them cool and then heat them up again to 400 deg in the oven and then quench them.....what is your method of hardening P.C bullets


I'm going to answer your question with several different scenario's so you can get the idea of what quenching vs not quenching PC bullets does to the final BHN.

1. If you air cool your bullets when cast then PC them an allow them to air cool again the second time there is no change in the as cast BHN of the bullet.

2. If you air cool your bullets when cast then PC them and quench them right out of the toaster oven they will gain a hardness of about 75% over the as cast BHN.

3. If you quench your bullets out of the mold to begin with then PC them and allow them to air cool they will soften around 50% from the original first quenching BHN.

4. If you quench your bullets out of the mold to begin with then PC them and quench them right out of the toaster over a second time you only loose around 15% hardness from the first quenching.

Basically I either follow steps 1 or 2. I either just cast my bullets from an alloy of the hardness I want to begin with and air cool them when cast an after powder coating I let them air cool again or I cast them from an alloy that responds to water quenching ie wheel weights powder coat them and quench them right out of the toaster oven which give me and increased hardness of around 75% which is fine for my needs.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 19 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I tried this once for 470 cal for my double.



This is 2 coats for Dulux paints powder in NZ - mat black. Got free samples from the Rep.

I had to lube the PC bullets with a tiny bit of Imperial case lube when sizing. The bullet sizing die make the bullets 0.476 while the nominal bore is 0.474.

Even with flaring the case mouth I collapsed the shoulder of one case. Subsequent loads were done very slowly.

I wish I could size them to 0.475 or do the cast bullets to 0.474 and then PC.

I have fired a few shots and the load was experimental. Poor accuracy so far.


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Posts: 11006 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
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Larry Gibson is a retard.
if he wanted to impress someone he would do what he is doing with a 10 twist like those that actually thought up the XCB project to begin with are.

your not seeing them blow their horns left and right all over C/B because they can't stand his pompous ass.
 
Posts: 4962 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Saeed:
I dropped my lubre size machine and now only powder coat. Granted my shooting is only for double rifle velocities at no more than 2150 fps. Much quicker than standard sizing and lube and there is almost zero lead in the bores. My .350 no2 shoots at 2575 fps and is the only double I don't shoot lead bullets in. For the high velocity you shoot in your rifles I don't know if coating will work.
Cal


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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Larry Gibson is a phony. He only looks outstanding on the Cast Boolits forum because they are comprised mostly of Kintergarten dummies in the cast bullet science. Anyone could excel in that atmosphere.
 
Posts: 662 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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I found that pc increased bullet dia enough that I had to lube & size them afterwards. That seemed to defeat the purpose for me at least, as I like to shoot as cast size, and if I have to lube to size, I'll just stick with lube.. Were I to dedicate to PC, I'd order a mould sized to cast for the PC coating. I also have not yet seen anything in the way of targets that impressed me at 100-200yds. Haven't looked again in 2018, but, do keep an eye on ASSRA, and there isn't much use of it on there for those boys.


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Posts: 284 | Location: southern AB | Registered: 17 May 2011Reply With Quote
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I've been powder coating rifle bullets for a couple of years now with satisfactory results in calibers ranging from 5.56mm to .458 Socom, have run pressures from 12K to over 50K psi, and velocities from about 700 fps to almost 3,000 fps, with and without any lube in the grooves.

1.5 MOA to 200 yards at full jacketed velocities from a clean, copper-free rifle barrel is easy to achieve without a lot of work. Sub-moa from my LR-308 is becoming commonplace at ball ammo speeds. I'm using fairly soft lead alloy in the 12-14 bhn range, air cooled after coating the bullets. Gas checks are a must beyond 1600-2000 fps (depending on pressure), but lube is not. I now shoot coated bullets without any additional lube after learning it offers no advantage within my personal range of uses.

In some instances I use a multi-diameter bullet-sizing die similar to a swage die to true the bullets and ensure the noses are uniform and have no parting line ridges which could jam the self-loading rifles. One coat of Polyester TGIC-crosslinked powder paint, 80% gloss or higher, baked at the recommended time and temperature after applying and firmly crimping the gas checks is all that is needed. Powder application method is similar to Reloader762's method as he explained earlier in this thread. I use copper-jacketed load data and work up with a chronograph and Quickload. The rest of making the powder-coated bullets shoot straight is a lot of details like sizing to go in the rifle's throat without shaving paint or bullet metal, letting the bullets have some room to "jump" to the lands (about the same amount as you would a copper-jacketed bullet, not having more than about two thousandths neck tension on the bullet, NOT using a hard, brittle alloy, and making sure the bullet has "lube" grooves or at least those micro-bands like Lee uses on some of their designs. Coated bullets with smooth or "slick" sides have shown a tendency to make the coating foul badly like copper monoliths will if displacement grooves aren't present at intervals across the bearing length.
 
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