I am curious if any of you choose Leica over Swarovski. I have owned Swarovski
10x42's for several years. I have been very impressed with the older model as well
as the newer model that I currently own.

I recently bought some Leica 10x42's. I bought them due to them having a built in rangefinder
and also because Doug at Camera land found me a great deal! I have been very impressed with these
bino's as well. It is very difficult for me to tell which is better.

Swarovski has been great for customer service. I have heard that Leica has improved their service.

One of the New Zealand members of this forum posted that Leica had a different coating/type of procedure for their bino's. He indicated that the coatings were better (if I remember right).

Are any of you convinced that Leica is the clear leader for glass? I will most likely upgrade my spotting scope in the future and may choose Leica. I have also looked at getting a Leica rifle scope.

Mainly, I am just curious as to your reasons as to why one is better that the other.

Thanks

Leica fan here.

I have Leica binos and a Swarovski spotter. Reason was I got a good deal on each of them several years ago. I doubt one or the other would make a difference in me shooting something (the whole point of me buying optics).

However, was at a good sporting goods store last year and the sales person, a guy who'd been there for many years, told me Leica's better "hands down". "Hands down" to me means "kind of" or "I'm brand blind". However, he talked about coatings, Leica's history in camera lenses, etc.. His main point was color-trueness and edge clarity. I wondered if he get a higher commission on selling Leicas, but really doubt it, seems like a solid person.

I have the ATX 65mm HD spotter and really like it, could look through it all day, but would love to have a Leica and Swaro side by side outside, early light to see if there's a difference then. To me, that's what really matters, early and late in the day clarity.

I have Leica binocs and can find no fault at all, but Swrovskis come well recommended by all that use them..Ive used the Swaro binocs an Id say its a push...

For a spotting scope I have an old Baush and Lomb, Rochester NY and there is none to compare..but a good used one is very expensive and in demand....

quote:

Originally posted by mt Al:
I have Leica binos and a Swarovski spotter. Reason was I got a good deal on each of them several years ago. I doubt one or the other would make a difference in me shooting something (the whole point of me buying optics).

However, was at a good sporting goods store last year and the sales person, a guy who'd been there for many years, told me Leica's better "hands down". "Hands down" to me means "kind of" or "I'm brand blind". However, he talked about coatings, Leica's history in camera lenses, etc.. His main point was color-trueness and edge clarity. I wondered if he get a higher commission on selling Leicas, but really doubt it, seems like a solid person.

I have the ATX 65mm HD spotter and really like it, could look through it all day, but would love to have a Leica and Swaro side by side outside, early light to see if there's a difference then. To me, that's what really matters, early and late in the day clarity.

Great comment and I’d agree. I think whatever you get between the two would be great.

Right now Swarovski makes the best bino's, spotting scope, and rifle scopes that have ever been built.

Period....

The only negative is that the oculars on some rifle scopes have gotten so large as to be a pain in the rear end on classic rifles. This is forcing the use of rings that are so high as no not be able to get a good cheek weld.

quote:

Originally posted by Abbispa:
Right now Swarovski makes the best bino's, spotting scope, and rifle scopes that have ever been built.

Period....

Don't go all JGRaider on us, Abbispa (Note I've deleted the punctuation that curtails discussion)

The quality of Swarovski's glass and coatings might be the best ever but there was a time when their mechanicals were even more reliable: before they succumbed to constantly centred reticles. Ironically they were so constant that some owners didn't need to touch the knobs for 30 years, during which they seized up, as in a couple I acquired for humble research.

Their Z5 and Z6 helical springs are the best answer I can think of to flat erector springs twisting under extreme adjustment and breaking under recoil - but you've still got the problem of a massive erector tube's inertia when you touch off.

The old reticle-movement scopes had only the reticle assemblies moveable inside, held in strong mountings with no hingeing to drag them down.

I had the original Leica rangrfinder binos. Gave them away, albeit reluctantly as a tip in '07 in New Zealand. Bought another pair as a replacement. Traded those in when Swarovski came out with the EL rangefinders. Gave those away, willingly as a tip in Zimbabwe to get a pair of the new Leicas. Just wasn't a fan of the Swaros. Just came back from the peninsula. My guide had a pair of Swaro rangefinders he was given as a tip. He asked to look at my Leicas and he really liked them as well.

But I do use Z6s on my rifles......

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:
I had the original Leica rangrfinder binos.

You had the original version that came out in 1993? I still have mine; was the first guy in the US to own one.

Zeiss Victory SF if you don’t need the rangefinder. Widest and flattest field of all the top glasses. Basically though you won’t be wrong to choose any of the top three

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Liles:
Zeiss Victory SF if you don’t need the rangefinder. Widest and flattest field of all the top glasses. Basically though you won’t be wrong to choose any of the top three

I had both Victory and EL binos at the same time- preferred the Zeiss over the ELs. Still have the Zeiss.

I have both Leica and Swarovskis in 10X42 rangefinding binos. I also have a slightly older pair of Leica rangefinding binos as well-also in 10X42. I use both the Leicas and the Swaros, but find myself using the Swaros a bit more. Both are oustanding glass. Both make hunting and accurate distance shooting so much easier. I have Swaro Z-5 scopes on almost all of my current hunting rifles, with custom dial up turrets on each from Outdoorsmans in Phoenix, Az.

I have Leica RF and Swarovski binocs
Best of both in my view

I own two pair of Leica and regard them highly. One pair was sent in for service a few years back and I was completely satisfied with their service and would definitely buy them again. I have used Swaros owned by others but did not find them as clear to MY eye as the Leica and they are notorious for loosing the eye ups. Anything priced in that category SHOULD NOT loose the eyecup.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Don't go all JGRaider on us, Abbispa (Note I've deleted the punctuation that curtails discussion)

Not sure what that means, but considering the dumbass it came from.......

I've owned several Swaro and Leica binos, and a couple of Swaro scopes. The models I've not actually owned, I've likely seen come into our hunting camps over the past 15 years. By far the #1 brand of bino that I own, or see are Swarovski brands. The only Leica binos that we see are Geovids because people have gotten sick and tired of Leicas USA perpetual BS customer service. Happened to me just last Summer and I'll likely never own another Leica anything. Zeiss glass is just as good, as is the Nikon EDG.

As to rifle scopes, I don't like Swaro and won't use them again after having one fail during a mule deer hunt personally, and having 6-7 more others on client's rifles with trouble. These were all Swaro A (Z3) 1" tube models.

As to which maker actually has the best glass, that's always a matter of opinion. All the top end "alpha" makers have top shelf optics. The type of coatings applied is usually what is more or less pleasing to your eyeballs.

For service it’s hard to beat Zeiss. I sent in my 25 year old 7x42 Dialyts for service as focus had become stiff. Came back a week later working like new. No charge. They honored their lifetime warranty.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:

Don't go all JGRaider on us, Abbispa (Note I've deleted the punctuation that curtails discussion)

Not sure what that means, but considering the dumbass it came from.......

Well JG, dumbass is as dumbass does: you had made some adamant pronouncement ending in the exclamation period within days.

Working out that that was the reference can't have been too hard.

Your cluelessness continues to amaze me sambar. Keep up the good work.

I have two Leica binoculars and one Swaro. Both are good, but then again I tried some Zeiss binoculars in a shop, going outside to try them out, and did some on-the-spot comparisons with Swaro and Leica and found the Zeiss to have better contrast, meaning better apparent sharpness. You can't tell much about ruggedness in a shop. My Leicas, and the Swaro, have held up fine in the mostly coddled manner in which I treat them.

All my rifle scopes are Leupold and my spotting scope is a Nikon. I have been happy with all of them.

I have come to the conclusion that I would take the best deal whether Leica or Swaro.

After using both this past week elk hunting, I still cannot tell the difference. I believe that
some see better through Leica and others through Swaro. I would like to compare some Zeiss optics
as well, in the future.

I believe that it is human nature to believe that what we use is the best. However, reading reports
from those that have used both is interesting and very informative.

On a side note, I will say that I will never be without range finding binoculars again. I helped a friend
get his cow elk a few days back, here in Utah. I used them to get him within a distance he felt comfortable with. It was great have range finder and bino's in one hand!

I hear you Jason. I've been going back and forth with the bino/rf units vs stand alone RF unit for a pretty long time now. It is my opinion that with all things electronic, you will inevitably have problems with it, maybe sooner maybe later. With today's short term warranties from various manufacturers which range from 2-5 years on RF electronics (Leica, Zeiss, Swaro, Leupold, Sig) it becomes a matter of do you accept good enough glass and a great RF (vortex Fury 5000HD) with it's lifetime all inclusive warranty, or do you accept short and limited warranties all for the sake of better glass?

I sampled the Geovid HD B last year, and at temps close to freezing I couldn't get them to range past 250 yds. They were still within 30 day grace period so I sent them back as not acceptable.

quote:

I sampled the Geovid HD B last year, and at temps close to freezing I couldn't get them to range past 250 yds. They were still within 30 day grace period so I sent them back as not acceptable.

JG:

Interesting, we have a cold front moving in as I type this, with snow soon to follow! I will have to see how mine perform!

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

quote:

I sampled the Geovid HD B last year, and at temps close to freezing I couldn't get them to range past 250 yds. They were still within 30 day grace period so I sent them back as not acceptable.

JG:

Interesting, we have a cold front moving in as I type this, with snow soon to follow! I will have to see how mine perform!

I've had my HD-B's for 5 years now and have never had a hiccup with them. They've been all over and have seen temps from -30F up to 100F. Other than they are a little large and heavy, I've been very happy with them.

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by farbedo:

quote:

Originally posted by Jason P:

quote:

I sampled the Geovid HD B last year, and at temps close to freezing I couldn't get them to range past 250 yds. They were still within 30 day grace period so I sent them back as not acceptable.

JG:

Interesting, we have a cold front moving in as I type this, with snow soon to follow! I will have to see how mine perform!

I've had my HD-B's for 5 years now and have never had a hiccup with them. They've been all over and have seen temps from -30F up to 100F. Other than they are a little large and heavy, I've been very happy with them.

Jeremy

Good to know Jeremy! I will be doing a lot of "testing" this week on Idaho deer and Utah elk ha ha

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
Your cluelessness continues to amaze me sambar. Keep up the good work.

I'll try to keep off your bridge, JG.

Leica.
I have found Swar. easy to get knocked out of alignment.
Swarovski's as I have noted before suffer from flare or some call it glare if you are looking close to the sun at sunrise or sunset.
Great for bird watching!
Binocs and high quality glass have come a long way the past 10 years. Not unlike flashlights.

I did a dawn dusk test on high end optics about 3 years ago. All at about a 4MM exit pupil.

Targeted range: 125 yds (feeder)

12X50 leica Ultravids (non HD)
10X42 Zeiss FL (HD)
10X42 Swar. EL (swarovision)
12X40X60 Leupold Goldring HD spotter set at 15X

Guess who won the low light test? Leupold Goldring HD Spotter.
Could not tell the other 3 apart. ~equal.
I could see details on the antlers of a deer far before day break with the spotter that I could not make out with any of those binocs. I would say 5 minutes better.
I could make out details with all the units far before legal hunting light.

EZ

Well when comparing the light gathering of a 60 mm lense to a 42 guess who will win even with lesser optics.

Exit pupil was the same with all units being compared: Objective lens diameter divided by the power (~4 MM). An equivalent comparason regarding brightness (Geometrically).
The remaining variables are lens coatings, glass quality, internal barrel darkening, prisms, optics design, etc. etc.

In a hunting binocular I like a stiff focusing wheel that does not move when you are carrying it around. I also do not like fast focus. Something that is slower and a finer adjustment.
I do not think any binoculars are really made for hunters these day. They are made to fit a lot of the customer needs. Especially birders.
If I could have my own design it would be a premium poro design in 9X45 with individual click eye adjustments per barrel. Remove the center wheel.Poro's give a better depth of
field where you do not have to adjust your focus so much. They are more robust and have less tendency to get out of alignment.
The down side as that they are a bit bulkier.
The best bios I have ever looked through are a pair of Fuji 10X70. They had this flat field eye piece every one is touting these days 40 years ago. It is not new....10X70's are not for carrying around!
I do like that some of the Mfg. are offering a locking diaopter which is something that everyone that offers a hunting binoc should have as an option.
Twist out eye cups are great for hunting in blinds and out of a car. How about out roughing it is the mountains for a week? Get some dirt or ice in them and they are useless.
What happened to good old rubber fold down eye cups that you could replace for $5 if they wore out?

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Exit pupil was the same with all units being compared: Objective lens diameter divided by the power (~4 MM). An equivalent comparason regarding brightness (Geometrically).
The remaining variables are lens coatings, glass quality, internal barrel darkening, prisms, optics design, etc. etc.

The higher power spotter definately will show more detail when all else is equal

As long as you don't breath!!

OK, I realize that this is an old thread but I thought I would give another update.

My hunts are over and me and my wife decided to go look at some deer yesterday. It was snowing
off and on and a bit cold. We glassed quite a bit and saw two nice bucks at dusk. I will
say now that I like my Leica's better than my Swaro's.

They are a bit clearer and I like the focus better. It seems to me that I am more often adjusting the
focus on the Swaro's. It is probably just a personal preference.

I'll never get rid of either pair. However, if I ever buy new glass I will look at both brands.

Swarovski to me has more eye relief and a cleaner image when viewed through my glasses.

Since I can't see beyond about 8 feet without glasses I only want binoculars that I can use with glasses.

Leica used to make binoculars for eye glass wearers, but for some reason they don't anymore.

I owned a pair of Trinovids, and promptly sold them.

So far my favorite binoculars are the Swarovski EL, I have not owned a pair since 2012 though.

Word on the street is that Swarovski has a binocular coming out in 2020, and that the EL's will drop in price.

Might be my chance to squirrel enough nuts to get a pair of 10x50s.

Just a heads up:

Starting November 27th, for Black Friday, the Swarovski 8x42's will be $1,549.99 and the 10x42's will be $1,599.99

Binoculars and scopes are very personal things and we all have different eyes. I like the balance of Leica’s. Swarovski feel too brick like to me. But for the best bins by far are still the Zeiss 7x42 BGAT*. Beautiful lenses and the ergonomics are perfect.

As regards scopes. Schmidt and Bender are beautiful. Saying that i have just bought a Leica 2.5-10 x44 ERI and very pleased with it.

For hunting I still like Leupold best, they are trim and slim, and the last thing I would give up on a scope is the centered reticle, Millions of big game animals have been shot every year with Leupold, Weaver, Nikon, scopes, and the need for many of the pros and cons mentioned are not particularly needed to put the X on a animal and kill it..Some can get too et up with tech!!

I will leave the teck stuff up to the target and benchrest crowd I suppose, it blows their skirts up..My only test is can I see the barbs on my south pasture barb wire at 150 to 200 yards..

Got a chuckle out of Ray's last post. When I had a bit of acreage I too evaluated Binos by checking barbs on a barb wire fence that was 306 yards from the house. This was with 12's and 15's. My "spot" went from backlit to shady to sun behind me. I have used all the top tier glasses and the only observation I can offer is that for my eyes Leica's seem to be able to look into dark shadows better than the rest.

I Agree on the note regarding Leica and the dark shadows (grey scales) as well as a few degrees off a rising and setting sun without all the glare. I am a Leica fan.

quote:

Originally posted by squeezenhope:
Got a chuckle out of Ray's last post. When I had a bit of acreage I too evaluated Binos by checking barbs on a barb wire fence that was 306 yards from the house. This was with 12's and 15's. My "spot" went from backlit to shady to sun behind me. I have used all the top tier glasses and the only observation I can offer is that for my eyes Leica's seen to be able to look into dark shadows better than the rest.

I am sounding a bit like a broken record, but maybe this will help.

It has been cold here, very cold. It was -27 the other day and has been consistently in negatives
all week.

Anyway, like an idiot I had left my binoculars in my jeep and they had been there all this week. I decided
to give the rangefinder a try and to see if the sub zero weather impacted it or not. The range finder worked
fine.

I guess that I have tested these in about all conditions (at least a lot of them).

I'm strictly a hunter, and Leupolds have served me well for over 60 years, and the guarantee has never ceased to amaze me..

I have used the same old pair of Leica 8x30s for the last 10 or so years, and pair of 8x40 Leicas that a fine gentleman gifted me on Safari a few years ago..Babu is greatful!