THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    We studied the DNA of African/Asian leopards & found big differences between the two

Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
We studied the DNA of African/Asian leopards & found big differences between the two
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted
https://theconversation.com/we...tween-the-two-158721



We studied the DNA of African and Asian leopards and found big differences between the two

April 12, 2021 11.01am EDT
Authors
Axel Barlow
Lecturer in Molecular Biosciences, Nottingham Trent University

Johanna L.A. Paijmans
Honorary Fellow, Palaeontology, University of Leicester

Disclosure statement
Axel Barlow receives funding from The Natural Environment Research Council and the European Research Council (EasiGenomics).

Johanna L.A. Paijmans does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organization that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.

Partners
Nottingham Trent University

University of Leicester

Nottingham Trent University and University of Leicester provide funding as members of The Conversation UK.


Leopards are among the most widespread carnivores today, living in a wide range of habitats, from deserts to rainforests, and from the lowland plains to the mountainous highlands.

Over the past century, they’ve experienced extreme habitat losses due to human activity, both directly from hunting and indirectly from habitat reduction and prey competition. This has led to the land they occupy being reduced by over 50% in Africa, and over 80% in Asia, involving the local extinction of many populations.

Genetic analysis of leopards is important to understand their population history, structure and dynamics. Particularly important is the analysis of whole nuclear genomes, which means all the DNA contained in the cell core – approximately 2.5 billion DNA bases (pairs of DNA building blocks).

In new research, we studied the genomes of modern and historical leopards, using samples gathered from an unusual place – natural history museums. And we found a surprising level of genetic separation between leopards from different parts of the world.

Analysis of the world, from experts

Normally, genetic analysis involves collecting fresh tissue samples. For leopards, doing this would be extremely difficult. The animals are hard to track down, particularly in areas where they are rare, and invasive sampling can be bad for the animal.

Animals bred in zoos may not be a good option as they may be mixtures of multiple wild populations. Getting samples from areas where they have been eradicated is not possible at all. For these reasons, we turned our sampling efforts to museums.

Museums


Natural history museums across the world are filled with skins, skeletons and even complete taxidermy specimens, often collected decades and decades ago. It’s a lot more challenging to extract genetic material from these old specimens, both from a technical and a financial point of view, because the DNA in such samples is more degraded, and sometimes includes large amounts of contaminant DNA in addition to the leopard DNA. But doing so allowed us to collect data from leopards covering their entire distribution, both current and historical.

This would have been near impossible if we only looked for fresh tissue samples. The collection of this genetic data allowed us to investigate the global population dynamics of leopards, with unprecedented resolution.

We collected material from many museum specimens, and investigated the DNA quality in each. Then, we selected the best samples from which to sequence hundreds of billions of bases of DNA. Using high powered computational resources we compared the DNA from all leopards to each other, and ran a range of different types of analyses to better understand how they differ.

African and Asian leopards

One of the most striking revelations we found was a marked distinction between African and Asian leopards. In fact, at the genome wide scale – across most of the leopard’s 2.5 billion DNA bases – Asian leopards are more genetically separated from African leopards than brown bears are from polar bears.

Adding to the puzzle is the comparatively recent divergence of African and Asian leopards, approximately 500,000 to 600,000 years ago, which is comparable to that between modern humans and Neandertals. Brown bears and polar bears, in contrast, diverged around 1 million years ago.



The cause of this genetic differentiation of Asian leopards is their out-of-Africa dispersal. Although the evidence suggests that leopards in south-western Asia carry DNA that’s relatively similar to African leopards, which could be due to occasional interbreeding, the overall distinctiveness of leopards on the two continents has been maintained. We would have expected Asian and African leopards to show more similarities in their DNA, as there has been (and possibly still is) mixing between the populations.

This level of separation is unexpected within a single species. Such a genetic distinction is not even always clear between different species. It also shows a brief event with relatively few individual leopards – the out-of-Africa dispersal – has had a massive influence on shaping the genetic patterns of these animals across the world.


A second important result is that African and Asian leopards have had a very different population history since their separation. African leopards show higher genetic variability, and their populations are less genetically distinct from one another.

In Asia, there’s a much stronger effect of geography, meaning that the correlation between genetic distance and geographic distance is stronger. Leopards are generally genetically more similar to other leopards that live close by, than those that live far away. This suggests less gene flow and dispersal between different parts of the continent than in Africa.

Despite the extensive encroachment by humans on leopard habitats, the historical samples didn’t necessarily have a higher genetic diversity than the modern samples included in the study. This shows that the differences we see in Asian leopards is not due to recent human impacts. Although humans have driven some local leopard populations to extinction, the impact of humans on the species as a whole is not yet severe enough to be reflected in the entire genome.

The leopard samples from the museum shelves have given us valuable new insights into their evolutionary history, as well as current populations across the world – even populations we’ve driven to extinction. Leopards are listed on the IUCN red list of “threatened species”, and classed as critically endangered for some of their range.

Considering the impact we humans have had on wildlife in recent centuries, there may be many species for which there are exciting genetic discoveries hidden among the shelves of natural history museums around the world.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9348 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Genetics aside there is no difference between the African and Asian leopards. Except the rarely found black panthers (mostly from South India). In India they used to say there are 2 types of panthers (leopards). The scrub jungle variety which used to be found near every village more or less, which didnt grow very big and then the jungle leopard which grow as big as any found in Africa. And leopards and tigers were always measured between pegs or over curves. Pegs was 2 pegs in the ground at nose and tip of tail and a direct line measurement. This is more accurate and a leopard over 7' measured this way is a good leopard. The other measurement used was over curves so the tape was run along the animal, if i remember right the difference is generally about 5 to 6 inches, between the two measurements.

Hunting in India was just awesome in those days!
 
Posts: 2532 | Location: New York, USA | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
What I am about to say is not the main focus of the article, but I have been waiting to say it any.

I do not not support the splitting of species based in some minute DNA differences. If the animals can breed and produce viable offspring, they are the same.
 
Posts: 10608 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Cougarz
posted Hide Post
Interesting the study didn't use samples from legally hunted leopards in Africa. I assume some game departments somewhere there does such research and various safari companies would be willing to participate.


Roger
___________________________
I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.

*we band of 45-70ers*
 
Posts: 2787 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
Dr. Jim Derr and I initiated the collection of DNA samples from hunting specimens back in the early 2000s. It is commonly collected now.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 36417 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I wonder how much it cost to prove Darwin's theory this time?

yep those are leopards.

mystery solved.
 
Posts: 4962 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of fairgame
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
I wonder how much it cost to prove Darwin's theory this time?

yep those are leopards.

mystery solved.


Yes a quick visual would have sorted that.


ROYAL KAFUE LTD
Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com
Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144
Instagram - kafueroyal
 
Posts: 9846 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Nakihunter
posted Hide Post
That logic has huge limitations.

Axis deer can breed with hog deer and even sambar (which is a different genus).

White tail deer can breed with Mule deer.

Asiatic WILD buffalo (Bubalis Arni) can breed with domestic water buffalo (like the Aussie buffalo)

Gaur can breed with domestic cattle.

Horses can breed with donkeys and produce sterile mules. I wonder if zebra & donkey can produce fertile offspring.

Various pheasants interbreed in captivity.

Sika deer & red deer hybrids are found in NZ.

Genome science has a valid place in taxonomy.

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
What I am about to say is not the main focus of the article, but I have been waiting to say it any.

I do not not support the splitting of species based in some minute DNA differences. If the animals can breed and produce viable offspring, they are the same.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 11006 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Nakihunter
posted Hide Post
Not always Andrew.

The Clouded leopard (a totally different animal to the African leopard) from India & Nepal to Thailand is also found in Taiwan & Borneo.

In the last few years the Borneo animal was identifies as totally different species - as different as a lion & tiger. The Taiwan Formosa clouded leopard has also been identifies as a different species. They all look very similar in colour and markings.

The below article http://cloudedleopard.org/about_main is a bit dated. Since then the Formasa Clouded leopard has been identified as a different species. It was declared extinct a few years ago but recent studies have found a few survivors.

Amazing animals. I have seen them in captivity and their agility in trees is unbelievable - like a mammoth squirrel!

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamar:
I wonder how much it cost to prove Darwin's theory this time?

yep those are leopards.

mystery solved.


Yes a quick visual would have sorted that.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 11006 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
That logic has huge limitations.

Axis deer can breed with hog deer and even sambar (which is a different genus).

White tail deer can breed with Mule deer.

Asiatic WILD buffalo (Bubalis Arni) can breed with domestic water buffalo (like the Aussie buffalo)

Gaur can breed with domestic cattle.

Horses can breed with donkeys and produce sterile mules. I wonder if zebra & donkey can produce fertile offspring.

Various pheasants interbreed in captivity.

Sika deer & red deer hybrids are found in NZ.

Genome science has a valid place in taxonomy.

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
What I am about to say is not the main focus of the article, but I have been waiting to say it any.

I do not not support the splitting of species based in some minute DNA differences. If the animals can breed and produce viable offspring, they are the same.


I remain unconvinced.
 
Posts: 10608 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Cougarz
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
Dr. Jim Derr and I initiated the collection of DNA samples from hunting specimens back in the early 2000s. It is commonly collected now.


That's what I would assume.

I wonder if the "stigma" of using legally hunted leopards made them do it the hard way. Perhaps the funding source, Conservation UK is the reason. I know nothing about them.

The science is interesting but only if it's collected using truly scientific methods.


Roger
___________________________
I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along.

*we band of 45-70ers*
 
Posts: 2787 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by reddy375:
Genetics aside there is no difference between the African and Asian leopards. Except the rarely found black panthers (mostly from South India). In India they used to say there are 2 types of panthers (leopards). The scrub jungle variety which used to be found near every village more or less, which didnt grow very big and then the jungle leopard which grow as big as any found in Africa. And leopards and tigers were always measured between pegs or over curves. Pegs was 2 pegs in the ground at nose and tip of tail and a direct line measurement. This is more accurate and a leopard over 7' measured this way is a good leopard. The other measurement used was over curves so the tape was run along the animal, if i remember right the difference is generally about 5 to 6 inches, between the two measurements.

Hunting in India was just awesome in those days!


Black panthers are more commonly found in denser vegetated areas, not just in southern India. The Javan subspcies is even called 'melas' and also in SE Asia black leopards are relatively common. In Africa they are found too at times, and mostly in more densely vegetated areas (Aberdares for example). It's actually remarkable they don't seem to occur in African rainforest. It might be because the always maintained a high degree of genetic diversity, and the black gene never had a good chance of becoming common there.
There currently is also a black leopard in Kenya somewhere, I've seen some quite recent pictures.
 
Posts: 653 | Registered: 08 October 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
That logic has huge limitations.

Axis deer can breed with hog deer and even sambar (which is a different genus).

White tail deer can breed with Mule deer.

Asiatic WILD buffalo (Bubalis Arni) can breed with domestic water buffalo (like the Aussie buffalo)

Gaur can breed with domestic cattle.

Horses can breed with donkeys and produce sterile mules. I wonder if zebra & donkey can produce fertile offspring.

Various pheasants interbreed in captivity.

Sika deer & red deer hybrids are found in NZ.

Genome science has a valid place in taxonomy.

quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
What I am about to say is not the main focus of the article, but I have been waiting to say it any.

I do not not support the splitting of species based in some minute DNA differences. If the animals can breed and produce viable offspring, they are the same.


I remain unconvinced.


So bison and herefords are the same species in "your" book?


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 9405 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Can they breed and produce viable offspring?

Red Deer and Elk for the longest were classed as same species.

Are Africans and Anglos the same species in your book?

Lions and triggers cannot breed and produce viable offspring. By viable what is meant is the offspring can reproduce. Think donkeys and horses. They can breed, but the offspring, the mule, is not viable. Therefore, not the same species.

You would still have White Rhino in Kenya if you sba splitters would have allowed Southern White Rhino to breed with Kenya White Rhino.
 
Posts: 10608 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Nakihunter
posted Hide Post
Various pheasant species are hybridised in private aviaries

Sika and red deer hybrids are thriving in the wild in NZ. In certain areas the pure Sika deer is no longer around.

In the American Rockies where the white tail deer range meets the mule deer, hybrids are known.

I remember reading a few articles about this in the 80s & 90s. Hunter magazine? I forget the author.


quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Can they breed and produce viable offspring?

Red Deer and Elk for the longest were classed as same species.

Are Africans and Anglos the same species in your book?

Lions and triggers cannot breed and produce viable offspring. By viable what is meant is the offspring can reproduce. Think donkeys and horses. They can breed, but the offspring, the mule, is not viable. Therefore, not the same species.

You would still have White Rhino in Kenya if you sba splitters would have allowed Southern White Rhino to breed with Kenya White Rhino.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 11006 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
And guess what? Hybrid Whitetail and Mule Deer Cross in males are sterile. Therefore, the offspring are not viable, not the same species.
 
Posts: 10608 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Can they breed and produce viable offspring?

Red Deer and Elk for the longest were classed as same species.

Are Africans and Anglos the same species in your book?

Lions and triggers cannot breed and produce viable offspring. By viable what is meant is the offspring can reproduce. Think donkeys and horses. They can breed, but the offspring, the mule, is not viable. Therefore, not the same species.

You would still have White Rhino in Kenya if you sba splitters would have allowed Southern White Rhino to breed with Kenya White Rhino.


Lions and tigers can breed and the female offspring is often fertile, while the male offspring isn't.

To base the principle of species on the fertility of offspring isn't as clear cut. For example with some gull species around the arctic circle it gets complicated. The one in eastern Canada, can't breed with the one in Iceland, but the one in Iceland can breed with the one in Europe, who can breed with the one in Asia, who can breed with the one in Alaska and Canada, so there is genetic flow between the one in Canada and the one in Iceland. Look purely at the Iceland one and Canada one, and based your species principle on the fact that they can or cannot breed and you conclude they're two separate species. But look at the complex of species surround the pole, one by one west-ward from the Canadian one and you would come to a different conclusion.

Northern white rhinos apparently were unique in that they can deal with tsetse and associated diseases, while southern white rhinos can't. Crossbreed them and the offspring might lose that capability.
 
Posts: 653 | Registered: 08 October 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Or if you breed them they would have maintained that immunity and not be “extinct”.

The point off spring is infertile traditional separated species until all the dna spiltters needing something to publish came along.

If the two breed and produce viable offspring, offspring that reproduce, same. If male or female offspring infertile different species. Tigers and lions are from the same genome like the mule deer and whitetail.

As someone said earlier a leopard is a leopard.

It is rare, but fertile female mules have been documented. There are exceptions to every rule.

DNA splitters apply reasoning no one would be permitted to do so with humans.
 
Posts: 10608 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Or if you breed them they would have maintained that immunity and not be “extinct”.

The point off spring is infertile traditional separated species until all the dna spiltters needing something to publish came along.

If the two breed and produce viable offspring, offspring that reproduce, same. If male or female offspring infertile different species. Tigers and lions are from the same genome like the mule deer and whitetail.

As someone said earlier a leopard is a leopard.

It is rare, but fertile female mules have been documented. There are exceptions to every rule.

DNA splitters apply reasoning no one would be permitted to do so with humans.


Beefalo are a composite cattle breed developed in the United States during the early 1970's by Californian DC "Bud" Basolo by interbreeding American Bison with Domestic Cattle. The Bison level was set at 3/8th's with the domestic cattle amount 5/8th's. While interbreeding bison and cattle has been accomplished for some years (Cattalo) the cross often experienced poor fertility.Basolo is credited for breaking through that fertility barrier, producing a thoroughly fertile bison-bovine hybrid.

https://www.thecattlesite.com/...on%2Dbovine%20hybrid.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 9405 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
What about Panthera pardus tulliana, the leopards that range from Turkey east to Afganistan? Where do they fit in? AKA Persian Leopard.
 
Posts: 385 | Location: So. Nevada | Registered: 29 April 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Nakihunter
posted Hide Post
Genome science is pure science. Taxonomy is the application of those scientific principles. This application of science can be subjective, prejudiced, erroneous etc.

The debate is about taxonomy & not genome science.

The evidence is overwhelming that hybridisation is common & hybrids do breed. Not always but often enough.

As already mentioned & a few more examples

1. Sika & red deer in NZ
2. Pheasant species in aviaries
3. Gaur & domestic cattle = Mithun in NE India, Bhutan, Burma etc
4. Wild buffalo (Buballis Arni) and domestic water buffalo in Assam
5. Markhor and domestic goats in the Himalayas
6. Ibex & domestic goats
7. Wolves and domestic dogs
8. Jackals & domestic dogs
9. Burmese & reticulated python in the everglades
10. God knows what else.


"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
 
Posts: 11006 | Location: New Zealand | Registered: 02 July 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Defining a "species" is largely a matter of semantics and beliefs rather than something fixed by science. Many "species" exist as a spectrum across their natural range, divided relatively recently into more or less clearly defined sub-species. Red deer in Scotland at one end of their spectrum are completely different to look at compared with American Elk (Wapiti) but all across Eurasia they become more Elk-like from West to East. They can of course still interbreed freely. Just the same with African Buffalo which form a spectrum from the Cape to the Forest through Nile Buffalo, and Western Savannah Buffs. Where they meet they interbreed freely, hence the debate in Uganda over Nile versus Cape Buffalo. In Ethiopia the "Nile Buffalo" are distinctly different and look more like Western Savannah buffalo than Cape Buffs.
Some conservationists have an interest in splitting species using DNA so they can be declared full species subject to different legislation and get funding for research and a boost to their own egos. That doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong. The SCI also has an interest in species splitting to maintain income from their awards system.
DNA research says that my Golden Jackal from the Somali border of Ethiopia is actually an African Wolf despite being the size of a fox. As far as I'm concerned it's a Somali Jackal.
As hunters does it really matter unless you are more concerned with an SCI award than the experience and memory?
 
Posts: 285 | Location: New Zealand  | Registered: 24 March 2018Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Genomic sequencing isn't "pure science", but rather a tool.

Defining a species is something that is pretty hotly debated in biological science. What amount of difference in whatever you are choosing as your measuring stick is an arbitrary decision made by the folks doing the defining.

It was quite a while back, but when I was in undergrad biology they were just starting out with genomic sequencing and using it for decisions on debated species. they assumed it would be the ultimate decision tool.

Now, there has been some very different animals with relatively close DNA, and it has thrown some of this into debate.

One of my profs liked to say that when he was young they debated fertile breeding and then all the sudden it got the tag of "in the wild" because of the animal husbandry people were able to do some pretty bizarre things.

The species definitions have a lot of politics and ethics debate involved in them. I can't really say that there is an absolute answer.
 
Posts: 10479 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    We studied the DNA of African/Asian leopards & found big differences between the two

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: