Would you opt for 416 Rigby for a rifle that will be mainly used for elephant, or would it be less than ideal? The recoil of the big 458 has proven to be too much for me for a quick recovery between shots, and I was wondering if 416 Rigby would do the job with the same effectiveness and reliability every time. Thank you.

I hunted with one a couple of weeks ago.Extremely accurate and plenty of power.

No worries about a .416 Rigby on any dangerous game including ele. But a full house .416 Rigby load is going to hoof about as much if not more than a .485 WinMag with factory loads. You should certainly shoot one side by side with a .458 WinMag before deciding. You might have a difficult time determining which has less recoil.

My .416 Rigby shoots a 400gr at 2,400 fps generates about 65 ft/Lbs recoil

.458 WinMag with a 500gr at 2,050fps generates about 60 ft/Lbs recoil

At the end of the day you may be looking at a .375 and that still works quite well on ele. The other option is to build a heavy(er) .458 to help tame the recoil. One thing is for sure, you never really "feel" recoil in the field.

There's a lot more to recoil than calibre alone.

Stock design, weight of rifle, load and whether the rifle is fitted with some kind of recoil arrestor or (as much as I hate the bloody things) muzzle brake can all be major factors in how much the rifle kicks you and/or jumps about.

Before you start buying new rifles, it might be worth considering doing something like having a competent gunsmith fit a mercury tube recoil arrestor.

To give you an example, my .500 Jeffery was built to my dimensions and specification, including being properly fitted with a mercury tube recoil arrestor and as DDRHook will confirm that rifle can almost sound like it's belt fed.

I've only shot 3 elephants, so I'm far from an expert on the subject. One was with a .458 Win. and the other two were with my 416 Rigby Ruger Safari Magnum.

Both were effective on the elephants. I would say recoil is similar with full power loads. 400 Gr. solids @ 2,400 fps from the Rigby generate a good bit of recoil. It's a pretty substantial step up from my fairly light 375 H&H shooting 270Gr. TSX @ 2,740 fps.

shoot the rifle that you feel most comfortable with . A 375 shot well is much better than a 458 shot marginally.

Maybe the 404 is a good compromise.

I have shots lots of elephants with a 416 Remington Magnum. Never a problem. I am sure I will do it again.

A 416 is renowned for its penetration...if you can handle the recoil then it will do more than a good job for you. Practice and get used to it as much as you can and I can assure you that you will feel a lot less recoil when shooting it in an an actual hunting situation.

416 Rigby is a fine all around DG cartridge.

Brian, the 416 Rigby will work well, but with either the 416 or 458, just add some gun weight until it feels fine.

I have not shot elephant and I am not a Big Bore expert.

My comments from limited experience might however have some relevance to you and your situation.

Most of my shooting has been with deer caliber rifles in the 7mm range. I have shot some others like 308, 358 Win & 9.3X62 which have more recoil. No problems getting 1 inch groups from the bench or good field accuracy & quick follow up shots.

I then got a an opportunity to shoot a whole bunch of big bores & double rifles with Sam in the US. 9.3X74R, 375, 450/400, 45/70, 450 NE, 470 NE, 500 NE & even the 600 NE.

The big lesson was the importance of rifle fit. I shot Sam's Webley action 450/400 like it was made for me. The recoil was much more than anything I had ever shot before. But I was hitting the orange clay target on the range mound at 25 meters - off hand! That is what I normally do with a 7mm, 358 or 9.3!

Then I tried his Chapuis 470 NE. It was a disaster - it clouted me all over. My cheek was sore for at least 2 weeks after that. The rifle just did not fit me.

Then I tried the 600 NE Jeffery. I was hesitating. The trigger pull was stiff. I was very uneasy. But I shot it ok - particularly after the 470 experience. The 600 just pushed me back. Did not hurt me. I was hitting the milk cans.

The BIG lesson was that the recoil was much more than the 470 BUT the rifle fit was a lot better & so I shot it better.

Now I own a CZ 550 mag in 416 Rigby. It fits me well. I shoot it well. With more practice I am getting better at it. Now I can even shoot it off the bench & I am getting 1.5 inch 5 shot groups with good hand loads.

One important issue with the 416 Rigby - The above quoted loads of 2400 fps with 400 gr bullets (or 2600 with 350 gr) are the traditional loads and this is adequate for DG hunting according to most experts. But many people now load the 416 Rigby to higher pressures - similar to the 416 Weatherby - & get 2550 fps with 400 gr or 2800 fps with 350 gr bullets. I found these loads to be very heavy in recoil and difficult to shoot accurately off sticks or off hand. I did not dare try them on the bench!

Now I just load the standard velocities and really enjoy shooting the rifle. I have shot feral goats off hand at 125 meters - no problems with quick follow up shots to get 2 or 3 goats from the mob!

I used one as my backup on my various elephant hunts.

I think it has more penetration than the big double calibers, but not quite as much knock out effect for "close but not quite" brain shots, after speaking to various PH's.

I would not hesitate to hunt elephant with mine.

Thats' plenty of rifle for elephant. The 3 elephants I have shot with a 416, had no complaints, no bullets were recovered, all were side brain or quartering brain shots, and passed thru completely. Mine is in a double Heym, it was originally regulated with Federal Premium Barnes banded solids and TSX, both 400 grain. Now that Federal is no longer loading those, I used Barnes Vortex ammo for the last two elephants. Fortunately, these shot to the same POI as the original ammo.

As one of the previous posters indicated, the 416 Rigby does indeed penetrate well, particularly with solids.


As far as recoil goes, I agree with the previous posters about fit being a key thing affecting felt recoil. I've shot quite a few other rifles as well as my own 375's and 416, and the ones that didn't fit, also seemed to hit a lot harder. I am reminded of one 458 Lott in particular, somehow I couldn't get right behind that rifle, and the owner asked me to check the zero. Moved off the bench and onto the sticks right away for that, I think I lost a filling in the process.

I have only shot 3 Elephant - one with a 375H&H that died but we didn't recover as it had gone into an area we couldn't follow,one with a 470NE double and one last one on my final safari with a custom 416Rigby. All 3 traveled after being shot but when found all three were equally dead. Only one could be called anything near a stopping shot. The first with a 375H&H was a frontal brain shot and the bull went down immediately on his rear as if he just sat down. He just as quickly popped back up spun around and was gone. I got a second heart/lung shot in as he spun around.All were handloadsand not to the maximum in any case all 3 were Woodleigh solids of standard weight for caliber. Would I use the 416Rigby again for Elephant? Absolutely without hesitation do I think it is adequate, absolutely. I consider it one of the best of the African capable rounds. I am firmly convinced if you use a good bullet and place it in the proper place you will be successful at Elephant with any of the commonly reccomended calibers. I think shot placement and bullet construction is everything and bigger is not necessary or particularly better. Just my opinion based on my personal experience.

Have used the .458 and the .416 Rigby, .416 Rem Mag and all to great effect.
My brother and myself actually video taped each other firing the .458 Win and the .416 Rigby to see the difference on " the body". They were identical CZ rifles. Brand new out of the boxes.
Our conclusion was that the .458 is much slower but larger push on the shoulder itself, you can visually see the shoulder travelling mfurther back.
The .416 Rigby is a much shorter sharper "snap" to the shoulder, the shoulder did not travel as far from the recoil.
On saying that used a .416 Rem Mag , only because Blaser does not chamber in the Rigby, for Ele to great success.
Beauty of a brain shot is that if they do not fall over it means you have missed the brain!!! Therefore you need a Plan B.......
Scott

I shot a tuskless cow with a 416 Rem. It hit just under the brain and she slumped but did not fall down. The Rem has more magazine capacity than a Rigby. My choice for Elephant would be a 458 Lott. but they kick.

If I'm correct the 450 Rigby (416 necked up) came to be due to concerns regarding performance on Elephant of the 416. Of course that was some 25 years ago and bullet quality and choice have evolved significantly. Maybe now it's a natter of one is good but the other is better.

The 416 Rigby is excellent for Elephant. No reason to load it hot. 400gr at 2400 fps is perfect.

Bob

I used my 416 rigby and a 400 gr barnes solid to take a tuskless (side brain shot) DRT.

I have taken my rigby on my last two hunts and been very happy with its performance on all game. It was a standard CZ and I had a gunsmith install a mercury recoil reducer.

Buy or borrow "African Epic". The subject of the book used a .416 Rigby and killed well over 1,000 elephants. Modern bullets will make the terminal ballistics even more effective. A well aimed .375 is also an elephant killer and lighter to carry. Recoil is temporary (unnoticed on a game shot) while gravity is continuous.

quote:

Originally posted by 4-5-0:
If I'm correct the 450 Rigby (416 necked up) came to be due to concerns regarding performance on Elephant of the 416.

Paul Roberts (of Rigby) came up with the idea of the .450 Rigby
He and his PH both had .416s on an ele hunt, The animal was lung shot -but more rounds were needed due to the hunters initial error/misjudgment.

Only one elephant was enough to then make Roberts think he needed a larger bore,
yet Selby employed .416 for 40+yrs of PH duties not with complaint, but rather high praise.

quote:

Commander David Blunt was invalided out of the Royal Navy in 1919.
He later became Cultivation Protector with the Game Preservation Department of Tanganyika.

During the next six years Blunt was an active part of the Elephant Control Scheme. In his firs year,
actually seven months of hunting, he shot ninety crop-raiding elephant...

On one occasion, very early in his career, the Senior Game Ranger visited Blunt’s camp. He was not impressed
by Blunt’s battery which consisted of a .416 bolt action, a .303 and a double-barrelled twelve bore black powder express rifle.

The senior ranger declared that the .416 was a good buffalo gun but that the only gun for elephant was his .450 No 2 double rifle.

Blunt was very new to the job but had already shot a couple of elephant with the .416, as well as a large variety of other game.
He was proud of his .416 and determined to prove its worth as an elephant calibre.

The very next day Blunt broke camp early and started off on a six hour march to his next destination....


There stood four elephant between a few stunted trees amidst thin, but shoulder-high grass. The elephant were facing away from the men
and the wind was perfect.

Blunt walked up close and brain shot the smallest. This exposed the shoulder of the largest of the group and Blunt heart shot this animal.
He then spun around and fired at a third elephant which staggered and commenced to fall.

The second, wounded, elephant was circling, apparently looking for the hunter. As the big elephant approached Blunt, it fell to a frontal brain shot.
The remaining elephant had sagged against a tree and Blunt quickly finished it off.

The white hunter felt quite pleased with three elephant in as many seconds...

Blunt dispatched a runner to tell the senior ranger that “… the old buffalo gun had accounted for three elephant”.

quote:

Recoil is temporary (unnoticed on a game shot)

Most magnums tend to start hurting after the 3rd/4tg shot at the bench but one could empty the magazine on an animal without realizing it.

A possible shoulder bruising next morning would be the only evidence of what transpired the day before.

Whilst the 416 Rigby has great penetration and will kill an ele , i don't think that its a "stopping rifle "in case things turn ugly.
For a purely ele gun, i would start with a calibre beginning with a 5. 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs in a bolt gun, or 5oo NE in a double which is my favourite !!!!!

Nick

If reloading the magic number is 2150fps. Load to 2200 will be very manageable.

Mike

have only shot one Ele and that was with a400grin hydro out of my 416 Rigby. No fly's on the 416 Rigby as a stopping gun. Calibre does not make a stopping rifle. The bullet still has to penetrate far enough to do the required damage. 416 at Rigby velocities will do that.

The 416 Rem will make the ballistics you need and probably recoils less than the Rigby but gun fit is the answer to felt recoil. The stock material is also important. My Rem 700 in 375 H&H WEIGHS 2LBS LESS THEN MY CZ550 IN 375H&H YET THE FELT RECOIL IS WAY LESS IN THE REM WITH A CHEAP sps PLASTIC STOCK. No yelling just in uppercase to highlight the point.

I am geting a McMillian stock for my CZ550 Rigby for better fit and recoil absorbsion.

303
You don't think the 5's can penetrate?

I have shot ele with both 500 and 600 doubles.

Have discussed this very topic with 5 or 6 of Zims well known
PH's , they all said the 416 lacked stopping power when compared to 500 caliber.
Entry level stopper was 458 Lott, the rest all mentioned the 5's.
Interestingly they believed there was a significant step up in stopping from 470 to 500.

Cheers
Nick

For a client, the 416 Rigby is more than enough. For a PH, he can do better!

465H&H

I found my 458 more comfortable to shoot than the 416Rig.
With the M98 action being shorter than the long action the Recovery shot should be slightly faster also.
How about the 404J with 450grn Woodleighd? a darn fine option Imo.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
For a client, the 416 Rigby is more than enough. For a PH, he can do better!

465H&H

That should have been the first post and this then would have been short thread.

But where's the fun in that.

I have shot many elephants with various 416 rifles, and many with 375 rifles.

All died just the same.

Hit them right and they will die, just like any other animal.

Perhaps you should ask Harry Selby whether he thinks the 416 Rigby is enough for elephants!

The .416 caliber is more than adequate. Mine was a Rem Mag, but same velocity as the Rigby. Dumped an oncoming bull ele at 35 yards in spectacular fashion ....

I've killed 2 bulls with my .416 Remington and my wife killed her bull last year with a .375 H&H. 'Nuff said! Shoot the rifle that fits you best. It's a marvelous hunt.