quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
100% Bwana...fully agree. Hunters MUST unite as a well honed unit if we are to survive.

Hence, ^^^ the reason we are losing.

Because I laugh that "we all can't get along?"

When this demographic can't agree that posting hero shots on the internet is bad, or President Trump is good for hunting and Biden is bad for hunting, you believe me laughing at our plight is the reason we are losing?

We have far more problems than me. The depth of the issues has no bottom.

Our image has been tarnished beyond repair, mostly at our own hand. Trophies cannot come back to the US on "most" airlines, due to the uproar over Cecil. (our own hand)

We are within a generation of losing our gun rights, we (The Right) will never win another National election, and my laughing is "Hence the reason we are losing"

Noted....

And It wasn't me who attacked another hunter for shooting an underaged Lion...Who was that?

Steve,
I was agreeing with your laugh...not criticizing it. If the post came off as insulting/condescending I apologize—was not intended to be implied.

I knew that by laughing you were telling me “that is never going to happen.”

I was just agreeing by saying that is why we lose.

Go to the ARPF and you will see people vote against their best interest because their feelings were incensed. We see people in this forum hanging fellow hunters out to dry all the time.

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And It wasn't me who attacked another hunter for shooting an underaged Lion...Who was that?

You know Steve that was a decade ago. We still had a chance to save ourselves from ourselves at the time.

But you are right...we could have probably done that better. But also, for those that followed inside...the Lion Conservation Task Force came very close to stopping the uplist of the lion and keeping trophies importable.

However in this game...there is no second place you only win or you lose. We lost...the rest is history. I am proud of trying though.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Steve,
I was agreeing with your laugh...not criticizing it. If the post came off as insulting/condescending I apologize—was not intended to be implied.

I knew that by laughing you were telling me “that is never going to happen.”

I was just agreeing by saying that is why we lose.

Go to the ARPF and you will see people vote against their best interest because their feelings were incensed. We see people in this forum hanging fellow hunters out to dry all the time.

Point taken. My point is that we are far too diverse in our "vision of purity" of our sport.

Some think shooting from the car is OK, some think rifle hunters are slobs and only bow-hunters are "real hunters"

We've certainly shot our collective selves in the foot a bunch. We can't lobby with one cohesive front or message. The opposition is very, very good at that.

For me, I'll ride this train till the last stop. After Massailand next year, I've done about everything anyway. I hate to sound defeatist, but I see no clear path forward.

I do believe there will always be some sport hunting in Africa, but no way trophies are coming home. You know full well how I feel about that. But that to is yet another subject of division.

I'm fortunate to have so many other interests equal to my love of International Hunting.

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The opposition is very, very good at that.

Just like in the Presidential election...they do what it takes to win and get their way.

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For me, I'll ride this train till the last stop

As will I...being a hunter is not what I do...it is who I am.

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I hate to sound defeatist, but I see no clear path forward.

Not without uniting, investing in politics, being smarter, and paying much closer attention...not assuming all will just be fine, keeping our head down, and working.

Regardless who is in charge, we are loosing rights to what we appreciate as normal part of life.

The unacceptable has become normal, to please the extremely few, vocal, stupid idiots in social media.

Trump's behavior was classic in this regard in the past 4 years.

Nothing is done for the good of the people any more.

Only to please the freaks!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Regardless who is in charge, we are loosing rights to what we appreciate as normal part of life.

The unacceptable has become normal, to please the extremely few, vocal, stupid idiots in social media.

Trump's behavior was classic in this regard in the past 4 years.

Nothing is done for the good of the people any more.

Only to please the freaks!

The train has long left the station. If it was a normal part of life emirates would still be transporting trophies.

How many lions and elephants were imported under trump ?

No one cares about African trophy hunting on the political scene and some rich buying spending 250k killing big 4 in the wild has little resonance with the marginal deer hunter in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania or Michigan that politicians rationally care about.

There will be hunting in Africa but without trophies to bring back the dollars spent on it will diminish.

Glad I am not into taxidermy.

Mike

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How many lions and elephants were imported under trump ?

There were lions imported.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

How many lions and elephants were imported under trump ?

There were lions imported.

How many ?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

How many lions and elephants were imported under trump ?

There were lions imported.

Right. There were lions imported under Trump's administration. I know of at least one imported about a year ago by one of our members here.

I have a bull ele shot in Dec. of 2013, prior to the ban. By the time the taxidermy was completed, the ban was in place. I've been working with Conservation Force trying to get it imported. I'm not going to put words in anyone's mouth as I try to be accurate with my statements, but I was lead to believe that issuance of my import permit was looking very likely just a few months ago, as in just prior to November last year. Evidently, wheels were in motion. Now? Who knows. I'd say doubtful.

The biggest concern I now have is how much ground will be lost in the next 2 to 4 years? Experience shows it's very hard to reverse regulations once put into place. That's the biggest problem as I see it. Political appointments of people who hold certain biases, who go on to craft regulations that carry the weight of law, without being subject to removal through the process of election when they run counter to the will of the people.
.

Where there no imported animals during Obama??

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Originally posted by Saeed:
Where there no imported animals during Obama??

The ban when into place under Obama's administration. Instituted by Obama regulatory appointees to the USFWS.

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Originally posted by Todd Williams:

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Originally posted by Saeed:
Where there no imported animals during Obama??

The ban when into place under Obama's administration. Instituted by Obama regulatory appointees to the USFWS.

I got mine before the Obama ban took place but during the Obama administration.

Expect little for next 4 years and then little even if republicans take over. Application files get lots in the administrative state and trophies rank nowhere in political importance.

African hunting stuff matters on ar and a few other African hunting/gun websites. But no one else where really cares about African hunting in any positive sense.

Mike

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How many ?

A few lions were imported under Trump.

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African hunting stuff matters on ar and a few other African hunting/gun websites. But no one else where really cares about African hunting in any positive sense.

True! Why we must at least not elect liberals that will pander to the extremest left...this is an easy bone to throw.

With Republicans...at least there is hope to reason with them and they won’t pander to the far left.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

How many ?

A few lions were imported under Trump.

quote:

African hunting stuff matters on ar and a few other African hunting/gun websites. But no one else where really cares about African hunting in any positive sense.

True! Why we must at least not elect liberals that will pander to the extremest left...this is an easy bone to throw.

With Republicans...at least there is hope to reason with them and they won’t pander to the far left.

Lane -

From my perspective, There are no politicians whom are Safari-hunting centric. The problem is that the ONLY thing a politician thinks or cares about is re-election.

Our entire demographic of International Trophy hunting is just too small. If we were all in one single precinct, we still wouldn't add up to enough votes for a politician to defend the killing of Elephants or Lions for "sport".

That equals political suicide for them. And that is their dope...power.

Steve,
What you are saying is true. To be frank, that was the intention of the Lion Conservation Task Force...to put vocal scientists on our side in the name of habitat preservation.

Had we all got on board when we could have...it might be a different story and why I was agreeing with your “laugh ” in the other post.

Now too...that ship has sailed.

At this point all we can do is elect politicians who won’t pander left (ie: Republicans), follow science in conservation methodology, and keep pointing out that science to those who will listen with an open mind.

At least Trump did not throw gasoline on the fire as most Republicans won’t.

But Biden will which is what this thread is about and the gist I was pointing out to Slim.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

How many ?

A few lions were imported under Trump.

quote:

African hunting stuff matters on ar and a few other African hunting/gun websites. But no one else where really cares about African hunting in any positive sense.

True! Why we must at least not elect liberals that will pander to the extremest left...this is an easy bone to throw.

With Republicans...at least there is hope to reason with them and they won’t pander to the far left.

What is the number few can be 2 or 5. It is cites animal so the number should be recorded.

We went from 1000s of lions being imported to a secret few.

Mike

I know one individual was permitted to import a lion from TZ in 2019. I am withholding his name out of respect. It has been generally reported. I do not know him.

I saw reporting of 38 permits issued to 33 people in 2018 by The Hill.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I know one individual was permitted to import a lion from TZ in 2019. I am withholding his name out of respect. It has been generally reported. I do not know him.

I saw reporting of 38 permits issued to 33 people in 2018 by The Hill.

2014 was 741.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I know one individual was permitted to import a lion from TZ in 2019. I am withholding his name out of respect. It has been generally reported. I do not know him.

I saw reporting of 38 permits issued to 33 people in 2018 by The Hill.

2014 was 741.

Mike

Missing the point, as usual Mike.

We went from what ever number, say 741 in 2014, to ZERO under Obama. Under Trump, we were making headway to get it opened again. Evidenced by a few lion permits being issued on a case by case basis. Ele import permits were to be issued on the same case by case basis, again, up from ZERO under Obama's ban. But none had actually cleared the process at the time of the election. Word was some of those ele permit applications were in line to be approved.

You can kiss that goodbye at this point. I hope I'm wrong. But I doubt it.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

How many ?

A few lions were imported under Trump.

quote:

African hunting stuff matters on ar and a few other African hunting/gun websites. But no one else where really cares about African hunting in any positive sense.

True! Why we must at least not elect liberals that will pander to the extremest left...this is an easy bone to throw.

With Republicans...at least there is hope to reason with them and they won’t pander to the far left.

What is the number few can be 2 or 5. It is cites animal so the number should be recorded.

We went from 1000s of lions being imported to a secret few.

Mike

I don't have the number without do research for it. But I think it more like 30-40...but that is a guess not a fact. I know of about 10.

I had a client who had a permit approved last year from Zambia. If the lion isn't here now it is in transit. It was shot in 2019.