This was a post to sample information on others interactions with Elephant charges but most posters weren't able to do that & turned it into a court case on the shooting & in this case it is very obvious to any one that was the thing to do !

Why any one would say different I can't imagine .

I believe that’s Ivan Carter. Seems like a guy would avoid shooting at all costs if possible.

I'm no expert, but I'll share my opinion. That looks to be Ivan with his 600 Heym Nitro. With that said, in my opinion, it appears that he had no other choice. I've seen a number of other video ele bluff charges with Ivan in them where he was successful in waiving them off. Not this time, unfortunately, as that ele was hellbent on killing someone.

I see you changed your post Use Enough Gun ?


"Yes, that appears to be Ivan with his 600 Heym Nitro. In my opinion, it appears that he had no other choice. I've seen a number of other video ele bluff charges with Ivan in them where he was successful in waiving them off. Not this time, apparently, with the ele's head down and ears pinned back."



I was about to say that is why I asked the question as in the past people have said ears back, head down, trunk rolled (which I know is wrong have seen them charge & reaching with the trunk) I don't think it can be judged by these things & that is why I asked ?

I work in some areas that if I shoot a Ele I could be in big shit but Id rather see the Ele dead than my guys or myself !

As you can see in the Vid ears are way out wide !

We have problems with charging game & when to shoot ever where, quota, the size a hunter wants & the rules of engagement on some properties & Parks !

I have had far more experience with Bovines & I have let them get too close in my later years as I think I can stop most if not wounded as a lot are just running at you for effect, (not Bantang, they want to kill you) & shooting the wrong or unwanted Bull could ruin a hunt .

Having been on quite a few elephant hunts in Zim and Namibia, there is no way that ele was going to stop!!

Ears flared out or not, at 5m it’s a no brainer for me ..... excuse the pun

Well done Ivan.

I don't see anything wrong with the clip at all. The cow was going to freight train them.

That’s some quick and effective shooting!

I’ve always admired Ivan Carter, but feel he’s a little cavalier in the way he acts around elephants. While 95+% of the time, he accurately judges what an elephant will do, it’s the 5% that don’t follow the script that could spell his doom. I’ve seen videos where he’s within 10-15 yards of an obviously pissed off elephant, and yet he turns his back to it. 95% of the time that’s OK, but if he runs into an elephant that’s just having a bad day and wants to crush his tormentors, Ivan will be toast. I hope I’m wrong, because Ivan is one of the good guys.

Elephant charging with ears back and silent is the general rule. However, Nature is unpredictable.

I sent Ivan a message yesterday about this and we visited last night on WhatsApp (really very early morning here) and he said it was him in the video and that they tried everything they could to stop/turn the elephant. It fell at 4 meters from his feet.

Not an expert, but have a few ele hunts under my belt. That looks a lot like a charge Buzz and I had a few years a back. In my opinion that cow was bent on killing.

Never hunted elephants but that was too close and with head down she wasn't going to stop. Righteous kill.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
I sent Ivan a message yesterday about this and we visited last night on WhatsApp (really very early morning here) and he said it was him in the video and that they tried everything they could to stop/turn the elephant. It fell at 4 meters from his feet.

That clip really should be shown in full context. It's on the Boddington On Elephant DVD. The full context clip shows them pursuing that herd for some time while they were trying to get in position on a tuskless. At some point, that cow, which I believe was the matriarch, took offense to them and the clip you see is the result. From the full video, you can see they pursued the tuskless ethically and it was just one of those events that sometimes happen with a wild and unpredictable animal. Prior to the clip shown on this thread, Ivan had the entire group backing away trying to avoid conflict with that her.

It's been awhile since I watched the DVD but I believe Ivan actually addressed the issue of ear position, trunk position, etc., during a charge and how you can't take any one set of parameters as gospel to be applied to every single encounter. You've got to look at the entire picture. And in the clip shown above, regardless of the cow's other signals, she was barreling down on them and wasn't going to stop at all, evidenced by the speed at which she was coming and the final range when the shots were fired! I also remember Ivan being a bit upset they had to shoot that cow afterward. A proper DLP shoot in my opinion.

I'm 100% sure it was a good shoot & was just hoping to get some more info from the hunters on here about there encounters .

But seems a AR mind set that some one is trying to cause trouble or pull some one else down & folks go into defense mod & didn't give much info of their own hunts !

Fairgame did & Tod helped just now, thank you for that, I think most Pros are unhappy when forced to shoot, any thing really, other than on there own hunts.

I think only once or twice I thought my hunter didn't really deserve the massive trophy he was about to shoot & it would be good if he missed lol !

Todd,
You explained it much better than I could have.

Ivan wouldn't have shot her if he didn't have to. There's nothing more dangerous than a cow elephant.
The real reason I haven't done a tuskless hunt as exciting as it sounds is the concern about something just like this. I don't want to shoot a cow, especially one with a dependent calf.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
I sent Ivan a message yesterday about this and we visited last night on WhatsApp (really very early morning here) and he said it was him in the video and that they tried everything they could to stop/turn the elephant. It fell at 4 meters from his feet.

When pursuing Tuskless, or Elephants in general, claiming "we did everything we could" is complete BS.

You (we) invade their space, with deadly intentions. Just this case the target wasn't the Elephant that was killed. Ivan did what he had to do to not get trampled, but the results are hardly unexpected.

Everyday I get on my road bike, I make sure to kiss hug and kiss my family members. I'm aware of the possibilities.

No different here. Elephants do what Elephants do.

Hi all - sorry it’s been a while since I have been on - actually it’s a complete myth that elephants would put their ears back on a charge - after all they want to look as impressive and imposing as they can. I have shot a few elephants at full charge and every single one has its ears out and trunk rolled up -

Indeed this was a cow at the back of a herd that had a tuskless in it - she wasn’t going to stop and I made every effort to stop her till the last minute. Yes it was my 600 and the second shot came from my left from jeff Wemmer who was the client on the hunt.

Thanks everyone

Excellent, Thank you Mr Carter for taking the time to comment on here, really appreciate you doing that & as I thought on the ears !

Regards

Nothing wrong with shooting that one..as to laying their ears back, garbage, it only takes a mini second to flop those ears back to start with, and I have no idea who came up with that myth, other than they do that on ocassion, but who knows what it means if your not an elephant anyway!!

At any rate self defense is a legal shot on man or beast, so its a moot question..

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I'm no expert, but I'll share my opinion. That looks to be Ivan with his 600 Heym Nitro. With that said, in my opinion, it appears that he had no other choice. I've seen a number of other video ele bluff charges with Ivan in them where he was successful in waiving them off. Not this time, unfortunately, as that ele was hellbent on killing someone.

...................................... ABSOLUTELY!!! MacD37

From what I saw in the video, Im pretty sure I would have pulled the trigger 5yard before Ivan shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't see anything wrong with the clip at all. The cow was going to freight train them.

I can' even believe there is a question.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I don't see anything wrong with the clip at all. The cow was going to freight train them.

I can' even believe there is a question.

Jeff

Yup.

Those of us who were clients and friends of the late Ian Gibson know the heartbreaking consequences of waiting too long before shooting an incoming elephant, especially one that Gibbo knew to be in musth. No question that Ivan made the right choice with this cow.

Only way to avoid a possible charge is not to get too close.

What is too close?

I don’t know.

In Kenya we got EXTREMELY close to elephants.

Far too close for comfort to me.

To the extent some actually had their trunk inside our truck.

At a waterhole, with a shoulder high fence, the bulls were actually almost feeling my camera with their trunks.

In Zimbabwe we got chased by cows when we were 80 yards away!

“Deleted because it has become a kangaroo court”

Did you expect no one would post their opinions?

In an open discussion forum?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
“Deleted because it has become a kangaroo court”

Did you expect no one would post their opinions?

In an open discussion forum?

No kidding.