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UPDATED: Delta / United / AA ban Big 5 trophy shipments
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Posts: 7 | Location: Nova Scotia, Canada | Registered: 19 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Just called 1-800-455-2720 option 2 then option 4. This is corporate. I told them my wife and I were all done flying with them. The nice lady there said that she has been getting a lot of calls from people just like us.I hope we all can make a difference by calling them. I am heading to Zimbabwe tonight for a hunt.
 
Posts: 5 | Location: Bangor, ME | Registered: 02 November 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by gerryb:
Why are SCI and DSC not attacking. This is a legal activity and no different than not making a wedding cake simple discrimination.


I can't speak for SCI but I can tell you DSC is working on trying to get a reversal.


Karl Evans

 
Posts: 2712 | Location: Emhouse, Tx | Registered: 03 February 2010Reply With Quote
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Not just Delta... United and AA are partnered in same ban..


 
Posts: 215 | Location: colyfornnia | Registered: 13 July 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by maxart:
Not just Delta... United and AA are partnered in same ban..


Pretty much sealed and done. Trophy ban is a story in NY Times, WSJ and most media outlets.

Very unlikely DAL changes its policy. It is what it is.

I dont think a boycott or anything makes any sense. I think the focus should be on making sure we can still take guns to africa and focus efforts on that fight.

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Thread title and OP updated. Will update as needed or requested, so please post or PM me.



 
Posts: 160 | Location: Ft. Worth, TX | Registered: 31 July 2015Reply With Quote
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My opinion is to target and boycott any and people, organizations, media that takes a public stand against legal sport hunting. Vote with your feet and your wallet and try to cause them the same pain the anti's are trying to cause us. Write letters, make calls, cancel flights whatever it takes to get heard on this.

BTW has SCI or DSC put out a statement on this? I got some stupid email from SCI regarding corporate sponsors and Swarovski. They are milk toast. Glad to be an NRA member!
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 26 February 2014Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdogsrule:
My opinion is to target and boycott any and people, organizations, media that takes a public stand against legal sport hunting. Vote with your feet and your wallet and try to cause them the same pain the anti's are trying to cause us. Write letters, make calls, cancel flights whatever it takes to get heard on this.

BTW has SCI or DSC put out a statement on this? I got some stupid email from SCI regarding corporate sponsors and Swarovski. They are milk toast. Glad to be an NRA member!


Boycott sounds good and all till you realize you will be boycotting 70 percent of us flights domestic and over 90 percent of us flag flyers overseas.

How many people are willing to give up income and capital to support a boycott for hunting in africa ?

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
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United platinum member and just canceled my United credit millage card . flight booked on United to Australia on Aug29th..out of SFO ...canceled and recooked on Quantis for more money but feel very good about.Told them why i was canceling not that they care..
I can play that game...


 
Posts: 215 | Location: colyfornnia | Registered: 13 July 2009Reply With Quote
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So explain to me the following:

If I was a bakery owner and stated that I would not provide services to a gay couple because I don't believe in gay marriage, I'd be sued, my business boycotted and I'd likely face charges.

However, If I'm an airline and I state that I won't provide service for trophies that were legally taken in compliance with all federal and international laws, I'm completely within my right to do so with no questions asked.
 
Posts: 469 | Location: Denton, Texas | Registered: 18 May 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by maxart:
United platinum member and just canceled my United credit millage card . flight booked on United to Australia on Aug29th..out of SFO ...canceled and recooked on Quantis for more money but feel very good about.Told them why i was canceling not that they care..
I can play that game...


Hate to break bad news but quantas has also signed the ban.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/de...trophies-on-flights/


Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the Info Mike...Dont feel so great about it now..lol Although I did just get my Buffalo NT and Russa from new Cal last month carried on Quantas.


 
Posts: 215 | Location: colyfornnia | Registered: 13 July 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by gsganzer:
So explain to me the following:

If I was a bakery owner and stated that I would not provide services to a gay couple because I don't believe in gay marriage, I'd be sued, my business boycotted and I'd likely face charges.

However, If I'm an airline and I state that I won't provide service for trophies that were legally taken in compliance with all federal and international laws, I'm completely within my right to do so with no questions asked.


Wait, are you suggesting that we just claim that all trophy hunters are gay and maybe they'll lift the ban?



Guess it depends on how bad folks want their trophies, huh?



 
Posts: 160 | Location: Ft. Worth, TX | Registered: 31 July 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by gsganzer:
So explain to me the following:

If I was a bakery owner and stated that I would not provide services to a gay couple because I don't believe in gay marriage, I'd be sued, my business boycotted and I'd likely face charges.

However, If I'm an airline and I state that I won't provide service for trophies that were legally taken in compliance with all federal and international laws, I'm completely within my right to do so with no questions asked.

That is an excellent question.


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Posts: 691 | Location: UTC+8 | Registered: 21 June 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by T.J.:
quote:
Originally posted by gsganzer:
So explain to me the following:

If I was a bakery owner and stated that I would not provide services to a gay couple because I don't believe in gay marriage, I'd be sued, my business boycotted and I'd likely face charges.

However, If I'm an airline and I state that I won't provide service for trophies that were legally taken in compliance with all federal and international laws, I'm completely within my right to do so with no questions asked.


Wait, are you suggesting that we just claim that all trophy hunters are gay and maybe they'll lift the ban?



Guess it depends on how bad folks want their trophies, huh?


I did share a tent with another guy in hunting camp once, would that allow me to qualify? Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 469 | Location: Denton, Texas | Registered: 18 May 2004Reply With Quote
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OP updated with UPS confirmation that they will continue shipping legal trophies.



 
Posts: 160 | Location: Ft. Worth, TX | Registered: 31 July 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by K Evans:
quote:
Originally posted by gerryb:
Why are SCI and DSC not attacking. This is a legal activity and no different than not making a wedding cake simple discrimination.


I can't speak for SCI but I can tell you DSC is working on trying to get a reversal.


Good for DSC and I'm pretty sure that is why DSC has the following they do (membership, sponsors, and exhibitors). I hope it helps.


If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while.
 
Posts: 842 | Location: Anchorage, AK | Registered: 23 January 2004Reply With Quote
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AA won't check firearms throught to another carrier, so I ditched flying the regional to DFW for my trips to AK and I'll drive to DFW and fly hunter/firearm friendly Alaskan Airlines. Guess that little airport doesn't need my business.

Apparently, once I get to go to Africa, I'll be on SAA.


If you are going to carry a big stick, you've got to whack someone with it at least every once in while.
 
Posts: 842 | Location: Anchorage, AK | Registered: 23 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Alaska Air is very firearm friendly. Their ammo limit is 50# (the weight of the checked bag). I always ship ammo to friends in the lower 48 when I travel down and then fly back with it.


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2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
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DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
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Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141
 
Posts: 7569 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
So explain to me the following:

If I was a bakery owner and stated that I would not provide services to a gay couple because I don't believe in gay marriage, I'd be sued, my business boycotted and I'd likely face charges.

However, If I'm an airline and I state that I won't provide service for trophies that were legally taken in compliance with all federal and international laws, I'm completely within my right to do so with no questions asked.


The simple answer is:
Homosexuals are now legally considered a "protected class" while hunters are not.


No longer Bigasanelk
 
Posts: 584 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by WPN:
quote:
Originally posted by gsganzer:
So explain to me the following:

If I was a bakery owner and stated that I would not provide services to a gay couple because I don't believe in gay marriage, I'd be sued, my business boycotted and I'd likely face charges.

However, If I'm an airline and I state that I won't provide service for trophies that were legally taken in compliance with all federal and international laws, I'm completely within my right to do so with no questions asked.

That is an excellent question.


It is an excellent question that SCI & DSC should be handing over to their attorneys for review. A large class action lawsuit would certainly get someones attention.
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 04 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by T.J.:
Update 1: Looks like they folded, and likely more to come:

USA Today
BBC

Update 2: UPS continues to ship legally hunted trophies:

UPS

I applaud these guys, as should we all. Anyone have experience with these folks when it comes to trophy shipments? Please share.

Feel free to PM updates if you'd like this post updated.


really happy to hear the UPS response. I'll be taking my business there every chance i get. 163bc
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 04 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Has anyone contacted Coppersmith or Flora and Fauna and got their spin on the latest airline spinelessness?
 
Posts: 539 | Location: Mostly USA | Registered: 25 March 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Beretta682E:
quote:
Originally posted by blackdogsrule:
My opinion is to target and boycott any and people, organizations, media that takes a public stand against legal sport hunting. Vote with your feet and your wallet and try to cause them the same pain the anti's are trying to cause us. Write letters, make calls, cancel flights whatever it takes to get heard on this.

BTW has SCI or DSC put out a statement on this? I got some stupid email from SCI regarding corporate sponsors and Swarovski. They are milk toast. Glad to be an NRA member!


Boycott sounds good and all till you realize you will be boycotting 70 percent of us flights domestic and over 90 percent of us flag flyers overseas.

How many people are willing to give up income and capital to support a boycott for hunting in africa ?

Mike


I will make my choices on travel with the thought of who is for me and who is against me. Might not work all the time or make a difference in the larger scheme of things but it will make me feel like I am following my conscience and not letting my wallet rule the day. I can look myself in the mirror in believe I am doing the best I can for the sport I love.
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 26 February 2014Reply With Quote
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My message to Delta:

Message: I am a loyal Delta customer. I have flown approximately 3.5 million miles on Delta. In addition, I pay for approximately 20 people to fly around the country on Delta. I think this should rank me as an above average customer. I am writing to express my extreme displeasure over the decision to no longer accept certain hunting trophies for shipment. Delta has no problem accepting my approximately $8,000 for my August flight to Johannesburg but will not accept my own personal shipment of trophies that are taken in accordance with both local and international law. I am sorry but I cannot comprehend that line of thinking. It seems hypocritical to me and to many others. I had hoped that Delta, an airline that I use religiously would not pander to emotional thinking by a bunch of people who have absolutely no idea of the real world in Africa. These people, while well intentioned, are ultimately going to be responsible for the death of most African wildlife. Hunting is the only possible salvation for Africa's wildlife. Where there is no hunting, almost all wildlife has been wiped out.. Look at Kenya for example. Kenya closed hunting in the 70's. By some estimates, Kenya has lost as much as 87% of its wildlife since the ban. It is really quite simple. There are no grocery stores or restaurants in rural Africa, Protein, a basic staple of human diet, is obtained by POACHING. Often large numbers of snares are set. These are deadly forever. Animals large and small get caught in these snares. They die a horrible death. Even worse is that most of the animals killed are never recovered. When a safari company moves into an area, they do several things including the following: 1- Employ locals 2- provide them with meat from animals harvested 3- Implement anti-poaching patrols The end result is that while the hunters do, in fact, kill some animals, the overall numbers killed are FAR less than what used to be taken by poachers. Hunting is the only way to save these animals. I have seen this over and over. By taking the action taken, Delta is complicit in the destruction of Africa's wildlife. it is that simple. I respectfully request that Delta reconsider its position. Thank you.


Delta's response:

Dear Mr. Shores,

RE: Case Number 16935006

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns about our decision about hunting trophies.

We are sorry to hear of your extreme displeasure about our recent change.
Delta has banned the shipment of all lion, leopard, elephant, rhinoceros and buffalo trophies worldwide as freight. Prior to this ban, Delta's strict acceptance policy called for absolute compliance with all government regulations regarding protected species. Delta will also review the acceptance policies for other hunting trophies with the appropriate government agencies and other organizations that support legal shipments.

We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact us. We understand your feelings surrounding this issue, and we are grateful you took the time to let us know how our actions have been perceived. Your concerns have been reported to the appropriate leadership for internal review. Thank you for your loyalty as a 3 Million Miler Diamond Medallion.

Sincerely,

Lauren McKenzie
Diamond Desk
delta.com
 
Posts: 11902 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
My message to Delta:

Message: I am a loyal Delta customer. I have flown approximately 3.5 million miles on Delta. In addition, I pay for approximately 20 people to fly around the country on Delta. I think this should rank me as an above average customer. I am writing to express my extreme displeasure over the decision to no longer accept certain hunting trophies for shipment. Delta has no problem accepting my approximately $8,000 for my August flight to Johannesburg but will not accept my own personal shipment of trophies that are taken in accordance with both local and international law. I am sorry but I cannot comprehend that line of thinking. It seems hypocritical to me and to many others. I had hoped that Delta, an airline that I use religiously would not pander to emotional thinking by a bunch of people who have absolutely no idea of the real world in Africa. These people, while well intentioned, are ultimately going to be responsible for the death of most African wildlife. Hunting is the only possible salvation for Africa's wildlife. Where there is no hunting, almost all wildlife has been wiped out.. Look at Kenya for example. Kenya closed hunting in the 70's. By some estimates, Kenya has lost as much as 87% of its wildlife since the ban. It is really quite simple. There are no grocery stores or restaurants in rural Africa, Protein, a basic staple of human diet, is obtained by POACHING. Often large numbers of snares are set. These are deadly forever. Animals large and small get caught in these snares. They die a horrible death. Even worse is that most of the animals killed are never recovered. When a safari company moves into an area, they do several things including the following: 1- Employ locals 2- provide them with meat from animals harvested 3- Implement anti-poaching patrols The end result is that while the hunters do, in fact, kill some animals, the overall numbers killed are FAR less than what used to be taken by poachers. Hunting is the only way to save these animals. I have seen this over and over. By taking the action taken, Delta is complicit in the destruction of Africa's wildlife. it is that simple. I respectfully request that Delta reconsider its position. Thank you.


Delta's response:

Dear Mr. Shores,

RE: Case Number 16935006

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns about our decision about hunting trophies.

We are sorry to hear of your extreme displeasure about our recent change.
Delta has banned the shipment of all lion, leopard, elephant, rhinoceros and buffalo trophies worldwide as freight. Prior to this ban, Delta's strict acceptance policy called for absolute compliance with all government regulations regarding protected species. Delta will also review the acceptance policies for other hunting trophies with the appropriate government agencies and other organizations that support legal shipments.

We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact us. We understand your feelings surrounding this issue, and we are grateful you took the time to let us know how our actions have been perceived. Your concerns have been reported to the appropriate leadership for internal review. Thank you for your loyalty as a 3 Million Miler Diamond Medallion.

Sincerely,

Lauren McKenzie
Diamond Desk
delta.com


NICE WORK LARRY!!!!!!
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 26 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Press the airlines and hammer them relentlessly just as the anti's do. Go down swinging and kicking. Time to get lous folks and make them hear our side. Are you listening SCI?
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 26 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Delta JOINED an embargo which includes Qantas:
"On Monday, Delta Air Lines became the latest carrier to change its rules about transporting hunting trophies. Its announcement came as a group of airlines including Air France, KLM, Iberia, IAG Cargo, Singapore Airlines and Qantas signaled last week they would ban the transport of trophy-hunting kills"

I brought some crates in last week through Maritius and Paris. There will always be a way.
 
Posts: 227 | Location: Calgary, Canada | Registered: 06 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Delta is not going to give up any freight. They are partners with SAA and all the freight they can get form SA will ship SAA into the US

UPS had a big spread in newpapers today they are still shipping and will not fold to comments from anti hunters. There position as stated was whats legal gets shipped.
 
Posts: 657 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 03 August 2010Reply With Quote
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Good for UPS!
 
Posts: 15784 | Location: Australia and Saint Germain en Laye | Registered: 30 December 2013Reply With Quote
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ANOTHER CANNED RESPONCE FROM DELTA:


Thank you for your email to Delta Air Lines sharing your feedback about
hunting trophies policy.

Delta has banned the shipment of all lion, leopard, elephant, rhinoceros
and buffalo trophies worldwide as freight. Prior to this ban, Delta's
strict acceptance policy called for absolute compliance with all
government regulations regarding protected species. Delta will also
review the acceptance policies for other hunting trophies with the
appropriate government agencies and other organizations that support
legal shipments.

We value customer feedback and appreciate you taking the time to contact
us. We understand your feelings surrounding this issue, and we are
grateful you took the time to let us know how our actions have been
perceived. Your concerns have been reported to the appropriate
leadership for internal review.

Again, thank you for writing. I appreciate your selection of Delta and
will always welcome the opportunity to be of service.
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 04 June 2005Reply With Quote
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I sent my email to Delta. Have You?

Bob
 
Posts: 189 | Registered: 20 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by venda axe:
I sent my email to Delta. Have You?

Bob


Yes sir.



 
Posts: 160 | Location: Ft. Worth, TX | Registered: 31 July 2015Reply With Quote
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See post above by 163bc. That was Delta's response to my email. I couldn't copy and paste it from where I am so he did it for me.

We were flying Delta to CO for a deer hunt this year but I think we will look at other options unless they rescind this arbitrary ban. My money won't hurt them but if enough of us boycott Delta it may make them rethink their position.

Also got an email from the taxidermist in SA that just got our trophies from last year that include a leopard and buf. She said they ship by Delta to the U.S. and assured they are working hard to find an alternative shipping carrier.

I surely hope they do. This last hunt with a leopard and a buff may just be our last unfortunately. We have a deposit on another hunt in Moz for 2 buff each next but who knows how all this political BS will play out.
 
Posts: 55 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 26 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Boycotts will do absolutely nothing as hunters are too few in number. If every hunter didn't fly Delta, they would not notice it a bit. I've said it before, we are fighting a losing battle.
Cal


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www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
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Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Boycotts will do absolutely nothing as hunters are too few in number. If every hunter didn't fly Delta, they would not notice it a bit. I've said it before, we are fighting a losing battle.
Cal


I hate to disagree but I fly Delta for business and hunting. They might not miss the two hunting trips a year but they would sure miss my business travel. I think they will miss the 2-3 guys I book on Delta with me on the business trips as well. They sure seem to kiss my ass a lot if my business means zilch to them. Tim Herald posted a photo the other day of 9 rifles coming off the Delta flight into Jo-burg. Figure no rental rifle hunters and 2 of the 9 flew business and the rest economy. 1/2 probably had a wife with them. Business class (2 hunters and 1 spouse) 3x8K=24K and (7 hunters and 3 spouses) 10X2K= 20k or roughly 44K. Figure a 4 month season (I know it is longer) so you have 120 days. Lets figure on 1/2 the # of hunters rather than the flight above. 120 x 22K = $2.6 million plus the lost freight. Add a few business trips to the mix for every hunter that flies for more than a single trip a year and they will care. I once got pissed at Delta and started flying American over a $50 baggage delivery charge they would not reimburse. When my receipts on American that I was mailing Delta went over $13K they sent me the 50 and a voucher for $500 with an apology. They care if you care. Say nothing and they won't either.

Regards,

Don


Trust only those who stand to lose as much as you do when things go wrong.
 
Posts: 324 | Registered: 28 June 2011Reply With Quote
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I appreciate everyone's noble efforts but I have to agree with Cal. When the director of marketing for Delta told the CEO what the fallout would be if they got connected with trophy hunting he said "Hunters...we don't need no stinkin' hunters" of course made up but not far from the truth. Flying out to Sango next week on ..sigh..Delta but will give them zero business in the future.
 
Posts: 212 | Registered: 18 March 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Boycotts will do absolutely nothing as hunters are too few in number. If every hunter didn't fly Delta, they would not notice it a bit. I've said it before, we are fighting a losing battle.
Cal


Totally disagree. Not fighting back is why we are in the boat we're in. Hunting community has no voice. We need to find on of we're done. Delta WILL notice.
 
Posts: 285 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 04 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Hunters maybe a small number but not everyone who flys is an anti-hunter either. Must people will not care one way or another if they ship hunted trophys so pressure can work to make them realize how much hunters spend with them. I am betting hunters spend more with them then anti-hunters do.
 
Posts: 553 | Location: macungie , Pa | Registered: 21 March 2014Reply With Quote
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I still own stock in aa, ual and dal and i am going to keep it.

If it makes economic sense - not having the publicity of animal rights activist running negative ad campaign which will influence mass consumer behavior, then the airlines are doing the right business decision. Before cecil dal would have flown big 5 trophies - not after cecil. Airlines and ups are not in the same business - public perception matters a lot more to airlines.

I don't see ducks unlimited calling for an airlines boycott cause they are not shipping lion skins back to the us.

Got to hand it to the anti hunting groups. They are playing it perfectly - not fighting for a complete ban as a starting point (which is their end goal) but playing it much more strategically. They figured airlines on trophy shipping were the weak link as 90 percent of public would probably support a narrow big 5 shipping ban.

I thinks its much better to focus on the next battle - the anti hunting groups will come after transportation of firearms as baggage. This prohibition will offend a far larger group. Its easier when you talk to airline management to tell them hunters and gun owners are a significant percentage of population. Also lets nope no idiot has an accident that injuries anyone by talking a loaded gun to get check in to a flight.

All big 5 trophy transport complains will generate the same form letter. After all the publicity the ban has generated that battle is lost.

Mike
 
Posts: 13145 | Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida | Registered: 22 July 2010Reply With Quote
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