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Another perspective: What can a PH do to piss off his client?
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quote:
Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
Everytime we were to go anywhere, he always was late getting started, and usually because he was on the dam phone every minute we were in range.


Terry, thanks for the reminder! I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I put up with it for a few days because I am pretty easy going and was still dumbfounded that I was actually in Africa (first trip Smiler ). Don_G was hunting 2x1 with me though, and after 3 days we were both starting to get a little frustrated.

As much as I really liked the guy, I was very happy when I got to mix it up and hunt with a couple different PH's for the rest of the trip and had a great time hunting with both of them.

Wasting daylight (especially in the AM) is not something I will tolerate in Africa again. I want to spend every minute of light I can enjoying what Africa has to offer (vs. what the camp has to offer).

Cheers,
Canuck



 
Posts: 7121 | Location: The Rock (southern V.I.) | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
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Mark,
There were four hunters in camp and we were all thinking the same thing. Are they out of quota? There were two more parties heading into camp after us. In Lobo we were in buff every day but they went out of their way to keep us from catching up to them and shooting a second buff. Only one of my group actually shot two bulls and he was with an African PH who was excellent. I'll post his name, Gerard Miller went out of his way to help his client kill two buff. And one of those bulls measured a solid 46 inches and was hard bossed. A real ol' Kakuli!

JBoutfishn,
I've sent you a pm.


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Posts: 7503 | Location: Victoria, Texas | Registered: 30 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Yep, I know what your talking about. On the afternoon of the sixth day I told the PH I was done, I'd shot a wildebeest, a zebra and impala. (As part of the package we still could hunt kudu, hartebeest, blesbok and duiker.) At this point all she had shot was a warthog and I wanted her to at least get one of the animails on her wish list. But with 3 1/2 days left we still could not find a hartebeest big enough and we saw plenty or even get close to a kudu. We did a LOT of walking for 2 1/2 days and on the last morning she shot a pretty good blessbok. I was glad for her and very proud of her.


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Posts: 1739 | Location: alabama | Registered: 13 November 2001Reply With Quote
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As well as big game hunting, one of my interests is reading and collecting books on African hunting. It seems that every book has a chapter on clients with funny and stupid things that they do. Reading the posts here, I think one could almost write a book on funny and stupid things that PH's do, or at least a magazine article. Wink
 
Posts: 1357 | Location: Texas | Registered: 17 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Another thing is when you have booked to hunt a particular animal but the outfitter has arranged a "standard" quota say of ten animals. He then EXPECTS you to shoot all the ten animals and keeps harping back to it, just because the $$$ from trophy fees are in his mind.

In this case I just told him "I didn't care about most of the animals on 'his quota'. I'll take the ones 'I want'."

He still kept referring to the quota and how was I going to fill it and not to complain later if there was some leftover (as if I cared !!!!) , if we spent a couple days trying to kill a zebra which I had wounded and wanted to finish off. Roll Eyes (we did finish it off by the way)


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Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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6.5x55,

The PH not getting you a shot at package animals should have resulted in a return of funds from the package price. Was that subject ever mentioned?

Sure it's "hunting" but come on! It's RSA there are Kudu all over the place, maybe not Hartebeest, but certainly they should have know of suitable areas to hunt or offer another 'beest perhaps as a substitute!

Should have gotten some money back on that one.

Les
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Clearwater, FL and Union Pier, MI | Registered: 24 July 2003Reply With Quote
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The thing that makes me most uncomfortable is PHs who treat staff like crap. I hunted in Namibia with a guy who acted blacks were slaves. No thanks.

I hunted with an American PH in Tanzania who definitely was not afraid to go into korongos after buffalo.


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Posts: 7570 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHowell:
6.5x55,

The PH not getting you a shot at package animals should have resulted in a return of funds from the package price. Was that subject ever mentioned?

Sure it's "hunting" but come on! It's RSA there are Kudu all over the place, maybe not Hartebeest, but certainly they should have know of suitable areas to hunt or offer another 'beest perhaps as a substitute!

Should have gotten some money back on that one.

Les


No, the PH didn't offer and I didn't ask. It wasn't the best trip, or the worst, we'd been on and in some ways we were just glad it was over. I figured it was a package hunt, "you pay your money and you take your chances". We didn't expect to take all 8 animals, but there were 5 of the 8 we really wanted. The way the hunt unfolded we got 6 of the 8, just neither of the 2 she wanted. I guess that’s Africa, which we both love and only gives us a reason to go back Big Grin


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Posts: 1739 | Location: alabama | Registered: 13 November 2001Reply With Quote
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If you go enough you will run into PHs of all types. Some are assholes and some are not. Sometimes that are BSing you..."too dangerous to go after that bull in the jess" after being the only bull you've seen in 10 days! There are endless variations to getting screwed!

Another favorite, as some have mentioned, is the dinner "party" where all the PH's are sitting around bad-mouthing previous clients. I have interrupted these dinner topics before, but it usually comes back the next night. Big 5 seems a regular culprit.

I do not care for PH's gossiping about his other clients, but the PH community is so small that gossip seems to be a way of life. Some of YOU would be surprised what I have heard about YOU from PH's!!

It is difficult to find a GOOD PH, whatever you decide that is GOOD.

A good PH/outfitter: Good breakfast (no hard rock biscuit crap), out of camp in the dark, back home in the dark, no booze, straight talk, and get me into game that I don't deserve. Smiler


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Posts: 19291 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Probably not in the same realm as some of the stories above, but one thing that pissed me off was we were travleing to a new location and I spotted a huge porcupine, I called out and the PH stopped the rig, I wanted to just take pictures and was getting my camer and big lens unwrapped from my day pack,PH gets on the radio and calls to another PH who is guideing a nationally televised bowhunting celebrity. Long story short he takes off to keep the porcupine in sight and about 15-20 mintues later the other PH and the celeb pull up, jump out and take off with the video guy to film the taking of this porcupine kill. Did'nt mind that he wanted one, just pissed me off that it was handled this way. Should have kept my mouth shut and drove on......Found out later he could not bring it back to the states so that really pissed me off more. But thats me.


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Posts: 29 | Location: NJ | Registered: 24 March 2005Reply With Quote
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The SA outfitter/PH on my first hunt was a total drunken bum. Thankfully, my son and I hunted with another PH, but this guy would call him on the radio 5-6 times a day to see if we had shot anything yet. By dinner, he was so drunk (rum-dumb) he could barely talk, and when he did, it was usually in Afrikaans to the PH giving him crap for not shooting more animals, or for turning his radio off. This, plus some "shady business" observed, really turned my stomach on the SA scene - although I know there are good ones there too, some of which are represented on this forum. It was my first hunt, I'd know better next time.

I've been lucky since, having some excellent PH's like Cliff Walker, Fred Bezuidenhout, Peter Chipman and Buzz Charlton.

A lot of it is about "fit", and how compatible you are with your PH. This is why I will not hunt with a PH with whom I cannot communicate with prior to the hunt. For example, I have asthma, and smoking is not tolerable. You'd be surprised how many PH's this rules out. Ditto with the boozing, or large "after dinner social gatherings" - just not what I'm personally looking for, at this point in my life.

As mentioned, neither can I handle PH's who complain all the time about "Africa", their previous hunters, the blacks, the US, etc. I'm not spending the kind of money it takes to hear how shitty their life is. Being upfront with the PH, and asking referrals pointed questions like this will help one determine if indeed there is a "fit".

quote:
Another favorite, as some have mentioned, is the dinner "party" where all the PH's are sitting around bad-mouthing previous clients...Big 5 seems a regular culprit.
Bill - You will find Buzz refreshing in this respect, he finds positive things to say about everybody, and is definitely NOT a whiner or complainer. And you are right about the "gossiping" at Big5, its pretty darn funny the first few dozen stories Wink until you realize that you'll be the source of their material on the next hunt! Big Grin
 
Posts: 3153 | Location: PA | Registered: 02 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
How about a PH who shoots the client's animals (see, e.g., the Mark Sullivan films)?


I thought the question was about Professional Hunters, not Hollywood wannabees.

From all the movies I have seen of him, Mark Sullivan is as far removed from being a PH as me landing on Mars tomorrow roflmao


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Posts: 66660 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

I thought the question was about Professional Hunters, not Hollywood wannabees.roflmao:


Recently, I watched the trailer on the NE website for his new movie. At one point, he gets all dramatic and says "We can shoot that buffalo right now [deep breath], or we can let that buffalo decide [deep, dramatic breath] how it's going to die". I started laughing my ass off.

Anyway, I sent the link to some friends (not hunters) and even they think he is a jackass, and they know nothing about him or african hunting. Now everyone is addicted to saying stuff like: "We can drink this martini, right now, or we can let this martini decide...how it's gonna die." It's really funny, 'specially after a few malted (or distilled) beverages.
 
Posts: 37 | Registered: 23 February 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by notmenotnow:

Recently, I watched the trailer on the NE website for his new movie. At one point, he gets all dramatic and says ... "We can drink this martini, right now, or we can let this martini decide...how it's gonna die."

jump roflmao thumb thumb thumb thumb thumb

I thought MS was slurred a bit in his speech lately, at least the last time I watched one of his films.

Is it big bore brain syndrome, or is it alcohol?
Only his hairdresser knows for sure. MS sure doesn't know for sure. One way or the other, he seems a bit demented.

Kill it quick next time, eh, Mark?
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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I couldn't care less one way or the other about Mark sulivan. I've never hunted with him and most likely never will. But I give him credit for figuring a way to make a few $ out of hunting, with his films.
Apparently enough others really don't care how he manages himself in the field as his prices are high and he's nearly always booked solid.
all this negative talk about MS does him more good than hinders him as he is getting his name mentioned. Anyone in sales will verify that if you say it long enough and loud enough eventually someone is going to believe it!
 
Posts: 29 | Registered: 20 February 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by notmenotnow:

Recently, I watched the trailer on the NE website for his new movie.


Just a correction, that would be the nitroexpresssafaris.com website, not the NitroExpress.com website.

All the comments about Mark Sullivan aside, I wonder how many guys posting on here could say they don't own any of his videos? OR could say they haven't watched one?


***

quote:
Another favorite, as some have mentioned, is the dinner "party" where all the PH's are sitting around bad-mouthing previous clients...


I wonder how it would go down if the clients interrupted a "dinner party" conversation like this and started whingeing and laughing about their previous PH's antics.


***

To any PHs reading this thread and thinking "what a bunch of wind bag whingers!". Well it has been fun and good to get some angst off one's chest. Much better now. Smiler


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Posts: 10138 | Location: Wine Country, Barossa Valley, Australia | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Am I a wind bag whiner or whinger? Maybe that's Auusie talk? Smiler

I can whine with the best of them, and proud of it!


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---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne.

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Posts: 19291 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Another favorite, as some have mentioned, is the dinner "party" where all the PH's are sitting around bad-mouthing previous clients...


How about the PH's sitting around at dinner discussing the current hunters in German?

This happened to me once in Namibia. It was pretty funny when one of my partners began speaking to them, also in German. In fact, better German than the PH's spoke. You should have seen the red faces. No more German spoken though. Big Grin
 
Posts: 6277 | Location: Not Likely, but close. | Registered: 12 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by NitroX:
All the comments about Mark Sullivan aside, I wonder how many guys posting on here could say they don't own any of his videos? OR could say they haven't watched one?


I've not watched one, don't own one and based on what I've heard don't care too.


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Posts: 1739 | Location: alabama | Registered: 13 November 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:

This happened to me once in Namibia. It was pretty funny when one of my partners began speaking to them, also in German. In fact, better German than the PH's spoke. You should have seen the red faces. No more German spoken though. Big Grin


Mickey Smiler thats a classic.
I speak 4 languages and have had the pleasure of listening in on conversations along the same lines as what you described. It is always funny to see that embarrassed look on someones face when they've been taken out of their safety zone.
 
Posts: 584 | Location: Blue Island, IL | Registered: 05 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:


I wonder how it would go down if the clients interrupted a "dinner party" conversation like this and started whingeing and laughing about their previous PH's antics.



I have done just that before. They took it in good humor and relayed some of their own stories of funny things that PH's had done with their clients. If you keep your eyes and ears open, you might notice that it is not only the PHs that are watching and evaluating your actions and performance. The camp staff, kitchen crew, and trackers all are forming their own opinions. Next time you are sighting in your rifles, notice that the guys who will be hunting with you are checking out just how good you shoot. Camp staff sometimes give "nicknames" to the clients. I wonder what kind of conversations go on over in the other camp at night about the happenings of the day while they are eating their corn meal and buffalo intestines over their little mopane fire? roflmao
 
Posts: 1357 | Location: Texas | Registered: 17 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
All the comments about Mark Sullivan aside, I wonder how many guys posting on here could say they don't own any of his videos? OR could say they haven't watched one?

No I do not own any of these tapes or have I ever seen one.


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Posts: 580 | Location: I am neither for you or against you. I am completely the opposite. | Registered: 23 December 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
quote:
Originally posted by NitroX:
All the comments about Mark Sullivan aside, I wonder how many guys posting on here could say they don't own any of his videos? OR could say they haven't watched one?


I've not watched one, don't own one and based on what I've heard don't care too.


I'd never heard of the guy until a friend told me to watch a video on YouTube...
I thought it was satire.
No way in Hell would I hunt with that idiot
Offer me 50k and find out if I'm lying. (I'm not)


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Posts: 309 | Location: NE Texas | Registered: 12 February 2012Reply With Quote
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A fourteen year old thread raised from the dead...



"Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP

If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming.

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Posts: 13440 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 10 July 2003Reply With Quote
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diggin
There's an emoticon for that!


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Posts: 3828 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With Quote
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The PH side seems well covered so I will skip my few PH complaints and comment on one outfitter:

Changes and misrepresentation in what was agreed on a New Mexico pronghorn hunt:
1. Other hunters on the 10,000 acre ranch
2. Ranch so overgrazed that there was almost no cover
3. Tent camping rather than promised lodging
4. Tents in cattle loading area complete with cows,cow poop, and dust
5. Skinny critters with poor racks due to poor range
6. Mediocre food


This was made worse because were within a few miles of excellent ranches where I had previously hunted and all hunters filled their tags with nice bucks.
My son and I hunted the first day and then left empty handed and very displeased for home.

As luck would have it, I did see the outfitter at a recent DSC show and let him know how disappointed we were with the above conditions. He had no response. Why should he? He was paid and can keep on doing the same thing.

Good news is we have booked a fall 2019 pronghorn hunt in the Texas Panhandle where I took a super trophy years ago; 50+ sections (square miles) available and staying in a nice home. Going with a Texas outfitter friend this time (proven and trustworthy) so my son should see some decent game and stay in decent lodging.


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Posts: 2293 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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A fourteen year old thread raised from the dead...


Seems to have touched some raw nerves!


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Posts: 2293 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
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I failed to notice the begin date.

however, some very good comments, to look for when booking a hunt.


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Posts: 1557 | Location: West River at Heart | Registered: 08 April 2012Reply With Quote
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I did also, but the. Noticed comments from people no longer around.

Regardless of the age, I found it informative.


I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.

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Posts: 3426 | Location: Dallas | Registered: 19 March 2008Reply With Quote
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I’ve been fortunate in my five trips to Namibia. All have been with Jan du Plessis of Sebra Hunting Safaris. Each of the five hunts was better than the prior hunts. I wish I could say the same for my last Montana mule deer hunt. I hunted with an outfitter I had hunted with on seven prior hunts, all successful. When I booked my last hunt, I was assigned a guide from Ann Arbor MICHIGAN who had never set foot on the properties we hunted. Luckily I knew the ranches well and knew the best spots for glassing. Unfortunately the outfitter lost the lease of his best ranch. To compound that, there was a tremendous winter die off the prior year and 90% of the mulies died off and 99.9% of the whitetails died from EHD. In five hard days of hunting (Dark to Dark) we saw only two shooter bucks. The first one I was about to shoot but the guide moved from behind our sage brush cover and spooked him. The other buck we spotted while driving in his truck and he wanted me to break the law and shoot from the truck. The final straw was the camp cook. In five camp breakfasts, we were never served a single slice of bacon to go with our eggs. On two mornings we never had coffee even brewed, let alone served. The camp cook was a surly older lady with a perpetual scowl on her face. Needless to say, I’ll never hunt with that outfitter again


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Posts: 1381 | Location: Lake Bluff, IL | Registered: 02 May 2008Reply With Quote
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I had the misfortune on my first hunt to be walking to the blind at a water hole when PH said, oh here's a lion track from yesterday. We shot a gemsbuck right at dark and he left me and my hunting partner on the ground with the dead animal versus in the elevated blind. Neither of us had hunted before and we only had one .308 rifle with us. PH said just shoot the lion if it appears. Next day we went back to same place and PH said OH 3 lions were here last night after you shot the lion. This guys was so greedy he was more worried about selling the gemsbuck meat than safety of his client. And yes, it only got worse including him getting drunk and I drunk and then going out for evening hunt; trying to get me to shoot an animal from the truck when we were on the way to locate another wounded animal that I had shot that morning. PH are often small business owners and let money cloud common sense and what's good for the client. Good news is I found other PH to go hunting next year..
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 May 2017Reply With Quote
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In my 35 trips to Africa I can say only 1 PH was a disappointment not his hunting skills but general demeanor. All of the rest were hard charging hunters who worked tirelessly to please me.
 
Posts: 1396 | Registered: 24 September 2007Reply With Quote
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I have been blessed on my three hunts. Abbie Stein-RSA, Kirk Mason-Zim, and Lin Stanton-Zim.

They all worked hard, were extremely competent, and I was able to get the trophies I wanted (including a 60 lb a side ellie in Zim in 2003 courtesy of Kirk)

BH63


Hunting buff is better than sex!
 
Posts: 2205 | Registered: 29 December 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
quote:
Originally posted by NitroX:
All the comments about Mark Sullivan aside, I wonder how many guys posting on here could say they don't own any of his videos? OR could say they haven't watched one?


I've not watched one, don't own one and based on what I've heard don't care too.


Another, not watched one and don't own one. If Saeed doesn't like him, probably not someone I want to watch. Saeed is a hunting machine and has more experience than about 10 of us put together. His opinion carries alot of weight with me.
 
Posts: 5685 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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After I booked my first buff hunt, I got several of the MS videos.

Irrespective of what you think of MS, the videos are a testament to the tenacity and vindictiveness of the buffalo.

IMO the buffaloes are the heroes of the videos, not MS.

When my time comes to die, I can only hope I face death with the courage of the cape buffalo.

BH63


Hunting buff is better than sex!
 
Posts: 2205 | Registered: 29 December 2015Reply With Quote
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I've only been to Africa once (RSA) on a package hunt, for me, everything went well except that the owner thought it was OK to prank my friend constantly! I finally asked my buddy if he wanted me to knock the fugger's teeth down his throat because it was getting hard to watch. I told my PH if the owner pulled that crap on me, he'd be real sorry. The guy even put rocks in my buddies bag so it was overweight at the airport. Plus my bud was handling his bag and he has a bad back. I would never go back to this outfit.
 
Posts: 23 | Registered: 10 June 2012Reply With Quote
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I do remember one instance of sitting around the campfire and another hunter (an older man who was suffering from a terminal disease), had gotten up to go get a drink, and his PH made a joke about how the guy’s legs had swollen up. The other people were laughing until I mentioned that the swelling was a symptom of a deadly disease. It wasn’t so funny after that.

A few days later, this same hunter had shot a warthog that was suffering from lack of food and everyone was laughing as to how the “trophy” didn’t even bleed. It was basically good natured ribbing, but the guy’s PH, a young guy, blew up, lambasting everyone about the lack of respect for the dead warthog.

At this same camp, there was another hunter, a fairly well known writer, who apparently thought he was the life of the party, telling story after story, replete with “effing this” and “effing that”. Since there were three women present, one the camp manager and two accompanying hunters, I did not find these stories and the language appropriate. I usually went to bed right after dinner, rather then listen to this foul mouthed blowhard.

BH63


Hunting buff is better than sex!
 
Posts: 2205 | Registered: 29 December 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
How about a PH who shoots the client's animals (see, e.g., the Mark Sullivan films)?


I thought the question was about Professional Hunters, not Hollywood wannabees.

From all the movies I have seen of him, Mark Sullivan is as far removed from being a PH as me landing on Mars tomorrow <img src="http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//happy/roflmao.gif" alt="roflmao" width="39" height="15"><!--graemlin::roflmao:-->


14 years ago. I give you credit for consistency Saeed. rotflmo

I'm most bothered on a Safari when the PH tells detailed stories about previous client's misdeeds. I have to wonder what the stories about Joyce and I may be.

Cheers
J&J


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2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112
2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012
DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191
Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771
Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141
Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141
 
Posts: 7566 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 05 February 2008Reply With Quote
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When I was hunting for leopard with Martin Pieters Safaris in the Omay I was told by a very good PH that my lady and I were only allowed one expensive cool drink (i.e. Coca Cola)per day on the safari car. This disappointed me for sure but I can see while reading here on AR that quality wins in the end.
 
Posts: 701 | Location: Germany | Registered: 24 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Wait, I thought that you “arrive as a client and leave as a friend/family” with your PH? Where did I get that wrong?


I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.

Marcus Cady

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Posts: 3426 | Location: Dallas | Registered: 19 March 2008Reply With Quote
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