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I am still new to this forum, but maybe some of you noticed that there is always extra space in my strongroom for a new rifle. Now my question, I had a look at the "new" R8 Blaser - black edition. Maybe it is a controversial question, but what do the professionals think about Blaser and also the older hands? Especially guys with experience on dangerous game with a Blaser R8 or R93. | ||
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FWIW, I had an R93 for some years and loved it to bits. It was accurate and the trigger was a real corker. The rifle took a lot of punishment and was used as a loaner by umpteen clients. About 4 years ago, I took it to Namibia for a client to use. The client was a very experienced shot and hunter and had been a registered firearms dealer. He knew rifles inside out and I'm glad to say, was also one of the safest gun handlers I've ever come across. Half way through the hunt, he climbed down from the truck, chambered a round, went to decock it, and had an AD. I hear all the Blaser owners out there yelling, BS. That can't happen! Well it did and not just once, but two or three times. After that, we gave him another rifle. However, I was able to recreate the same fault with an empty chamber about 40-50% of the time. I got back to RSA, took it to the agent and recreated the fault in the shop. The dealer sent the rifle back to Germany and it stayed there for about 3 months. Eventually it came back with a message that they couldn't find anything wrong with it......... BUT I did notice that EVERYTHING except the barrel had been renewed. After that it was fine but I was never comfortable with it, so sold it to a gunshop with FULL details of what had happened to it. As accurate and convenient as they are, I'd never own another one....... I'd never tell someone else they shouldn't buy one but I would tell them my story and advise them to be especially careful with the damn thing. I'll add that some Blaser owners want to keep their loaded and decocked rifle in the hunting rack....... as far as I'm concerned, that ain't ever going to happen. Oh, and welcome to the forum!  | |||
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What do you mean by "AD" | |||
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Accidential discharge. He took the rifle in his hands, chambered a round, cocked the action to get used to it, then immediately decocked it and the rifle went off as he was decocking it. His finger was nowhere near the trigger and the rifle went off anyway. One thing I will say for them is they're helluva quick to cycle. I once had some bugger get off 3 shots in ultra quick time right with a braked .416 next to my ear......  | |||
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Accidental discharge. ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, duke of York ". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan "The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand Cogito ergo venor- KPete “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.” ― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations” | |||
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Thanks Shakari It is always good to hear what the professionals say. Lets see where this discussion will go. | |||
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As you're in Jo'burg and if you have a Blaser sized budget, I'd recommend you look at a rifle built by Sabi Rifles in Nelspruit as a good alternative. They've made 2 rifles for me and I reckon they're helluva good quality for the money! | |||
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I have a R93 and love it. Accurate, cycles faster than anything out there and just a well made gun. My PH loves it and I jokingly told him when I die it is his. He made sure last year my wife knew my last wishes. I do not doubt Steve's experience and wished I knew what it could possibly be because one of the great things about the gun is the safety (under normal working conditions) is really what sets the firing pin. My PH is comfortable with one chambered at all times for this reason. I highly recommend the gun. Steve, when did you have the described problems? Kalahari Lion (Bots 07)  | |||
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I'm going from memory but guess I bought it new in about the lateish 90s and it must have been about at the end of it's guarantee period when I had the trigger pin recall thing done and got the extra 5 years guarantee. The fault occurred about 5 or 6 years ago I guess. I will say 2 things in praise of them though. - They have to be one of the most accurate rifles 'out of the box' ever and they stood right behind their guarantee. I didn't have a single squawk out of them about costs or anything else and I wasn't charged a cent for shipping or anything else. Actually make that 3 things...... their QD scope mounting system might look like a piece of used chewing gum would work better but in reality, it's fan-bloody-tastic! | |||
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Some of the early models also had problems with chambering/ejecting a round after having fired several shots. The bolt would not close or would stick. Whether this was due dusty african conditions or a build up burnt powder residue is not for me to determine - their owners however were not amused at the time. In all honesty I have to admit that the current Blasers have performed efficiently from all points of view - even though, it would not be of my choice to own one. | |||
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I did wonder if part of the problem might have been that ultra fine dust they have up there might have got into somewhere I couldn't clean...... | |||
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i have had several clients with them over the years and no issues at all - they are fast and very functional - the rest comes down to personal preference "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Mr Shakari, did you take it back to Powder Keg in South Africa ? | |||
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I am not a PH, but I used one in July to take two buffalo, a hippo, a croc and a lioness and it performed flawlessly including after crawling through the mud after croc. It is far faster than a traditional bolt gun and they are extremely accurate. The scope mounting system is the best out there. Yes, I like mine. Mike | |||
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I got my first R93 around 1999/or 2000 and have used it quite a bit. It is accurate and performs flawlessly. I have had a number of calibers and each one shot very well. The new guns have a 10 year "bumper to bumper" warranty, and the trigger pull is about the best in the busniess. I have used all of the Mauser/Blaser/Sauer, products and can say they are all very high quality and feed right out of the box, I prefer the Sauer takedown--but the R8 and the M03 are quick to takedown, accurate and the scope can be taken off and on without a change in zero. I've hunted with my R93 close to 10 years, from Texas to Canada- I've even packed it to South Africa--no AD no problems. I'd recommend any of the Blaser (R93,R8)/Mauser(M03)/Sauer products (202). They kill stuff even though they are not CRF  Ed DRSS Member | |||
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I have been using a R98 for close to ten years of quite hard hunting now. Used it in Aus, Africa and on New Zealand and Mongolia mountains with good results. The fastest bolt action I know of, and super accurate and handy. BUT a lot of the PHs I've met have seen many ADs with this rifle which was usually a result of lack of experience with its Safety. I will be the first to say I have had one AD with mine, but that could have happened with any type of rifle.  | |||
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I have used a R 93 quite a bit, including in Canada, Alaska, and Zimbabwe. My wife took her R 93 in 308 and I shot a few things with it.. I have never had any trouble with mine. I have used them in rain, snow, hot, below zero, and in really dusty conditions. I have seen one AD by a buddy of mine, He was chambering a round, cocked the rifle to chamber the round, and when he went to decock he put his finger on the trigger, as he reached for the decock lever. I personally saw him touch the trigger as he began to decock, but I could not stop him in time. He fired a 300 Mag round into the ground... He had no idea he had touched the trigger, and did not believe he had done so till I convinced him that I saw him do it... Truth is you do not have to cock the R 93 or the R 8 to chamber or unload the rifle. When you touch the trigger of any cocked rifle that is ready to fire it is supposed to shoot. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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THE TRIGGER IS 1.5 lbs, which has to contribute to AD. They must have plenty of probelms because straight from the website... Manual Cocking System The R8 offers the capability of safely stalking with a round in the chamber without any chance of discharge due to the innovative manual cocking system. Without the need to move your hand from the pistol grip you can silently push the cocking lever forward allowing the firing pin and spring to be cocked, ensuring a shot at a moments notice. To de-cock the system simply push the cocking lever forward with slight downward pressure and the lever will return to the neutral position removing all tension to the firing pin spring. For the past half century the Blaser manual cocking system has been recognized as one of the safest systems in hunting rifles.No conventional safety system can surpass the uncocked firing pin spring. To safely open the bolt, simply move the cocking lever forward until you meet the first resistance (about 3 mm / 1/8“) to unlock the bolt handle. This slight movement will not cock the rifle and you can load and unload the rifle safely. I would not buy one until it was remedied.... I love the action and the set up, it is a very innovative idea for bolt action rifles. I would like to shoot one.... | |||
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Awful lot of superb bolt guns, new and used, in that price range, w/out the AD issue. Dakota 76 comes immediately to mind, as does the (late lamented) Ed Brown Express. Not to mention AHR. Just sayin'... | |||
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The sear triggers introduced in the R93 in 2005 are as follows. - 750g = 1.65 pounds - 1000g =2.2 pounds - 1500g =3.3 pounds Most triggers in the US are of the 1000 gram variety. The new R8 is advertised with a 2.5 pound trigger and an optional 1.5 pound varmint or match trigger,that is to my knowledge not available yet.Some Blaser literature list a 750 gram, or 1 5/8 pound trigger/fire control for the R8, but I have not seen one of those yet. My measurements of my four R93 triggers have the lightest at 1.97 pounds, and my R8 trigger is 2.93 pounds. I do not think that a decent weight trigger should be the first thing to blame for an accidental discharge. | |||
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Skeetshot, When I had the trigger pin changed, I took it to the Swiss guy in (I think?) Pietersburg who then had the agency but I don't remember if I took it back to him or elsewhere when I had the later problem. | |||
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I love their single shot rifles and am quite impressed with the R8 re AD's...I'll let you know this time next year...going to leave one loaded and bouncing arround in the gun rack of the truck next season - if it goes bang when cocked or de-cocked the forum will surely hear about it  I belive my rifles should be loaded and on safe as I walk out of the house. These days I seldom load the rifle in the clients presence I grew up carrying a rifle loaded and on safe to school every day from when I was 12...I carried a bigger rifle e loaded and on safe every day from when I was 16 and joined the police reserve and full auto rifle or machine gun in the same condition from the age of 17 when I signed up as a regular officer. Guns were meant to be loaded, and when there are safetry catch issues as there have been on some of the Weatherby rifles....I don't want them any where near me! We'll see with the R8...the action is much ikmproved over the R93 and holds more ammo. Safety looks the same to me as their old single shot kiplov rifles which have been in use since dingaan was a boy scout with narry a problem | |||
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Hi All Thanks for stating both sides, either way these rifles are quite nice to look at. Shakari, with regard to the custom rifle route, I am in the process of building a 450 rigby on a BRNO 602 action. Then lastly: Ganyana - "These days I seldom load the rifle in the clients presence" - Why this approach? | |||
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I think in many/most ways, they're great rifles and if I were buying a rifle SOLELY for my own use, they'd probably be on the list of ones to consider but as it would be a loaner for me, I couldn't take the chance of a repeat performance. Sure the chances of the same thing happening to the same guy again are infitesimal but I was taught to be cautious as they say. The .450 sounds good and I hope you'll post some pics when it's finished.  | |||
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Shakari, Two years ago I also witnessed a AD with a Blaser and the client was demonstrating to me how very safe it was? From then on I got him to walk in front. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Andrew, I'm almost glad to hear that!  Whenever I tell people what happened to me, they often think I'm off my trolley but nevertheless, it happened! I certainly won't ever let anyone have a rifle in the hunting rack with a loaded chamber no matter what design it is or how safe it's claimed to be. At the end of the day, an AD can't happen on an empty chamber and how long does it take or how hard is it to chamber a round when you step out of the truck and onto the ground. | |||
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I personally hate a blaser.... Had lots of problems of the years with blasers from AD to miss fires and actions that get stuck because of dust and sand... It is over priced and not as good as the price might suggest. You can buy much better for that money. The action is NOT faster than normal bolt actions and I will challange anybody to prove me wrong - I have done it a couple of times with clients... | |||
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Have had many clients with said calibre and make and other Blasers - no problems - all very accurate and reliable. I own a Blaser DR ( and a Searcy and Krighoff ) - which also comes with much critque , but I have used it for 2 seasons on many back ups on big game - no problems and I enjoy the gun very much. But firearms are like marriages each to their own. | |||
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A friend who is a Zim PH had a chap demonstrate to him how safe his Kreighof safety was. That was until he put a 470 round through the PHs jacket. Good thing mate saw it coming and just stepped back. | |||
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I seem to remember that he was dicking around with the cocking piece whilst loading a round. Or had his finger on the trigger whilst it was safe? Something like that. Although punters who own these rifles speak highly of them I find any gun that is quickly assembled from a kit somewhat cheap. Mine on the other hand was assembled by a well known British gun maker over a 6 month period. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I would hazard a guess that there was some manufacturing defect in that rifle, and this could occur with any rifle. This is a really good example to reinforce the point that safeties cannot be relied upon. There is no substitute for safe gun handling. The thought of a loaded rifle in the vehicle makes me shudder, and I am surprised that anyone would suggest such a thing (no matter how "safe" the safety system is). Congratulations on enforcing your safety policy Steve! | |||
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a good friend of mine , richard cooke - guides a lot of elephant every year has a blaser and LOVES it - i believe its chambered in .416 - rich is an accomplished elephant hunter and i guess hunts at least 15 bulls a year - "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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Brian - particularly when guiding photographic clients they are anti gun and doing the hairy chested thing and loading your rifle as you walk out of camp is a sure fire way of loosing a tip Even with hunting clients almost the only times I need a rifle are on the way into camp or on the way home after the hunt has finished. Murphy dictates that is when you run into poachers, have an ele cow with PMS come to help push you through a thick patch of sand etc My Mauser 9,3 sat loaded, safety on in the gun rack behind the stearing wheel (ie just behind the windshield) for all of my parks service. I moved it's position to above the sun visors so as not to have it pointing at clients. Having carried a rifle on active service where you only ever unloaded when you went into a pub I am used to having a rifle loaded and on safe. It is part of the reason I like my Krieghoff so much- it isn't cocked but it is still oaded and I 'just' have to take the safety off to cock it...same as the blaser. | |||
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I guess I will be a skeptic until I see this done. The physics just seem to make this virtually impossible . . . to me. I am not talking about taking someone that is a wizard with a traditional bolt gun and someone that is average with Blaser and comparing their speed in cycling the different actions. I am saying, two rifles -- a trad bolt and a Blaser -- one shooter, it is impossible for me to envision that the same shooter cannot cycle the bolt on the Blaser quicker. Maybe physics and time and motion work differently south of the equator. Mike | |||
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What can't happen with a Blaser R 93 is for the gun to discharge when the safety is on because putting the safety on removes all tension from the spring that activates the firing pin. If I'm understanding this correctly, the gun discharge while it was being decocked and thus still had tension on the spring. I guess an R 93 can malfunction just like any other gun. Also, though it looks like one, an R 93 isn't really a bolt action gun any more than a pump or lever action is a bolt gun. They all have bolts but the cycling of an R 93 is more like a pump action than a bolt action. | |||
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Personally I bought all of the push feed vs. control feed bullshit you read on this site hook line and sinker. I have owned everything from pre 1964 Winchester model 70s to Mauser 98s but BAR NONE the best feeding rifles I have owned are Sauer 202s and Blaser R93s. The superiority of an inline magazine in terms of feeding can not be matched with a staggard magazine. On top of that the 202 and R93 are ridiculously accurate right out of the box and have wonderful triggers. They are also a dream to travel with since they take down into nice, neat, and compact packages. I have hunted with both CRF rifles and Blaser/Sauer rifles and find the Blaser and Sauers to be superior rifles in almost every respect. | |||
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Pull bolt back, push bolt forward, squeeze trigger. 3 actions. Push bolt up, pull bolt back, push bolt forward, push bolt down, pull trigger. 5 actions. It is impossible to be faster performing 5 actions as opposed to 3. IME the Blaser is about 40+% faster to operate which makes sense because it requires about 40% less actions to cycle. | |||
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There are two Blaser R93s in this rack. One is a .375 H&H Mag. and the other (the lefty, up front) is a .416 Rem. Mag. The .375 is mine and the .416 belongs to Fred Herbain, a professional hunter in Tanzania. Both are loaded, but uncocked. They are great rifles, IMHO.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Geoff: Without doubt the Blaser action is probably the quickest on the planet but the most reliable (IMO) will always be the classic Mauser 98. Furthermore, there has to be a reason as to why the big names in the gun industry chose to build their rifles on this action and, does one really need that extra 40% reloading speed? I am a firm believer in reliability over versatility. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting PH opinions on Blaser rifles
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