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Ever had a PH that you just could not connect with?
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I’ve been on many guided hunts in Alaska, British Columbia, Yukon, Alberta, the Western States and 6 in Africa to include Zimbabwe, Botswana, South Africa, Zambia & Tanzania. Only had problems on one African hunt and they both occurred on the same hunt in Botswana.

I was hunting with one of Botswana’s “Big 17” PH’s, now deceased, and we had a very good 24 day hunt, despite 2 significant problems. The big problem was when we found an excellent lion and had spent a couple days trying to kill it without success. When the owner of the safari company heard about the lion over the shortwave radio the 2nd evening of chasing that cat, he kicked us out of camp so that he could fly in with his client, who was a very prominent wildlife painter, known for his sheep paintings. We were at the airstrip when they landed and I was livid about being kicked out of camp so that the artist (G.S.) could shoot the lion we’d been hunting. I got into a confrontation with the owner (A. McF.), and my PH had to pull us apart. We left for the other camp we were being sent to, and they killed the lion later that same day. The other problem was that when I met my PH at the beginning of the safari, he had a very pretty blond in tow. They’d met a day or two before at a bar in Gaberone and he informed me that she would be with us on my hunt, all 24 days. She was pleasant and easy on the eyes but it was June and very cold, and I had to ride on top so she could ride in the cab to stay warm. I froze my ass off so that he could be cozy with her. The bigger problem was that we often had to return to camp midday for ‘a nap’. We’d have lunch, then they’d head off for their ‘nap’. I’d invariably be sitting around reading a book while they were screwing their brains out, sometimes rather noisily. He also pulled a few dumb stunts, trying to impress her. One entirely avoidable stunt ended with me way to close to the open mouth of a large Black Mamba. Thankfully, I was just a bit too far to reach or I wouldn’t be typing this now. Suffice it to say that I’ve seen a mamba’s open mouth closer than 99% of anyone else who can still write about it. After 6 or 7 days of ‘naps’ over the first couple weeks, I finally talked to my PH about it. We wrapped up the hunt with no more nap days. I ended up with a great bag that included a lion (much less than the one we got kicked off of), shot on the 22nd day, a great Kalahari leopard, 2 good buffalo and a bunch of plains game. All in all, a very good hunt but with 2 problems that shouldn’t have occurred. At least the pretty blond was a physician, so we had a doctor in camp should anyone have gotten injured or sick.

Only other problems I’ve had were on a couple hunts in BC and my only hunt in Alberta. I won’t elaborate other than to say they were total shit shows. Must be something about Canadian hunts.

Final comment, since the subject of agents came up on this thread. I’ve used a handful of different agents over the years. Several have been good, one wasn’t and I believe is no longer in business; but I want to note that none have been as detail oriented and thorough as Mark Young. Mark booked my Zambian hunt, which had some moving parts (2 different areas, 2 different PH’s) and it came off perfectly. He did a fantastic job and merits mention here. I’ll be using Mark again the next time I book a hunt through an agent.
 
Posts: 3835 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
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That owner was a world class jerk, obviously. A person can sure be at the mercy of these folks at times.

My lady was chasing a bushbuck over several days in the Matetsi. The quota was three on that 'ranch' and we were having a great time. Darn near got it several times. Lots of fun. There were two other hunters in camp being guided by the outfitter's son.

And then one morning our 24 year old guide told me that the little bush buck was now off quota and we could no longer hunt it.

Yeah, right.

On that same safari, we ran into a pride of lions. They had first come up to the remains of my bull elephant (a few rib bones covered in vulture droppings) where my lady and the guide were situated waiting for a hyena. The pride eventually left in disgust ( I am sure) and made their way down the trail to where we were sitting around a little fire about a mile away.

We heard one sound off and turned on the headlights. The big bunch of lions were right in front of the bakkie. Mostly all lying down.

I and my son got into the back of the bakkie and the tracker crawled into the front of the truck (no doors) and we slowly drove up to them. They paid little attention except for one lioness that started whipping her tail back and forth.

The driver made a huge detour around her and we went back to camp in very high spirits after picking up my lady and the young PH.

At camp he grabbed the outfitter's son and one of the two hunters (the 45 year old son) and they drove back to the very 'tame' pride and shot three of them out of the vehicle.

They then came back and got the 70 year old father and they went back and shot two more out of the vehicle.

I reckon that it was all about money but I still think that they were a bunch of bloody cowards to shoot 5 lions that night. Out of a vehicle.

I still get mad/disgusted and that was over 25 years ago and many more safaris.
 
Posts: 1532 | Location: Alberta/Namibia | Registered: 29 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by DLS:
I’ve been on many guided hunts in Alaska, British Columbia, Yukon, Alberta, the Western States and 6 in Africa to include Zimbabwe, Botswana, South Africa, Zambia & Tanzania. Only had problems on one African hunt and they both occurred on the same hunt in Botswana.

I was hunting with one of Botswana’s “Big 17” PH’s, now deceased, and we had a very good 24 day hunt, despite 2 significant problems. The big problem was when we found an excellent lion and had spent a couple days trying to kill it without success. When the owner of the safari company heard about the lion over the shortwave radio the 2nd evening of chasing that cat, he kicked us out of camp so that he could fly in with his client, who was a very prominent wildlife painter, known for his sheep paintings. We were at the airstrip when they landed and I was livid about being kicked out of camp so that the artist (G.S.) could shoot the lion we’d been hunting. I got into a confrontation with the owner (A. McF.), and my PH had to pull us apart. We left for the other camp we were being sent to, and they killed the lion later that same day. The other problem was that when I met my PH at the beginning of the safari, he had a very pretty blond in tow. They’d met a day or two before at a bar in Gaberone and he informed me that she would be with us on my hunt, all 24 days. She was pleasant and easy on the eyes but it was June and very cold, and I had to ride on top so she could ride in the cab to stay warm. I froze my ass off so that he could be cozy with her. The bigger problem was that we often had to return to camp midday for ‘a nap’. We’d have lunch, then they’d head off for their ‘nap’. I’d invariably be sitting around reading a book while they were screwing their brains out, sometimes rather noisily. He also pulled a few dumb stunts, trying to impress her. One entirely avoidable stunt ended with me way to close to the open mouth of a large Black Mamba. Thankfully, I was just a bit too far to reach or I wouldn’t be typing this now. Suffice it to say that I’ve seen a mamba’s open mouth closer than 99% of anyone else who can still write about it. After 6 or 7 days of ‘naps’ over the first couple weeks, I finally talked to my PH about it. We wrapped up the hunt with no more nap days. I ended up with a great bag that included a lion (much less than the one we got kicked off of), shot on the 22nd day, a great Kalahari leopard, 2 good buffalo and a bunch of plains game. All in all, a very good hunt but with 2 problems that shouldn’t have occurred. At least the pretty blond was a physician, so we had a doctor in camp should anyone have gotten injured or sick.

Only other problems I’ve had were on a couple hunts in BC and my only hunt in Alberta. I won’t elaborate other than to say they were total shit shows. Must be something about Canadian hunts.

Final comment, since the subject of agents came up on this thread. I’ve used a handful of different agents over the years. Several have been good, one wasn’t and I believe is no longer in business; but I want to note that none have been as detail oriented and thorough as Mark Young. Mark booked my Zambian hunt, which had some moving parts (2 different areas, 2 different PH’s) and it came off perfectly. He did a fantastic job and merits mention here. I’ll be using Mark again the next time I book a hunt through an agent.


Okay, I would say that you have won this thread.
 
Posts: 2638 | Location: Utah | Registered: 23 February 2011Reply With Quote
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That is very funny story.

Shadenfreaude kind of funny!
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Andrew,

Three kinds of trees. That's funny. Had an appy once loan me a book on trees and shrubs for the duration of the safari. I bought the book upon my return. I have a lot of books on birds, fish, trees, plants, etc. mostly of East Africa. Lots of pictures of flowers, bugs, trees, birds, etc. too.

Have photos of the biggest blindsnake and stickbug I've ever seen (not in the same photo). All mixed in with my hunting photos. I'm fascinated by a lot more than just the animals we are hunting.
 
Posts: 9954 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
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posted by lavaca: I'm fascinated by a lot more than just the animals we are hunting.


Me, too. Almost everything over there is of interest to me. But I still like the hunting the best.


Karl Evans

 
Posts: 2723 | Location: Emhouse, Tx | Registered: 03 February 2010Reply With Quote
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Only other problems I’ve had were on a couple hunts in BC and my only hunt in Alberta. I won’t elaborate other than to say they were total shit shows. Must be something about Canadian hunts.

Total shizz shows with Professional Hunters or Guides are NOT limited to Canadian Hunts. I've had one in Mexico, one in Kansas, one in Nevada, two in Colorado and one in Montana.
 
Posts: 18517 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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I agree that most people are willing to give others the benefit of the doubt, and at least try to get along.

But unfortunately, there are exceptions, and we all run into them from time to time.

I happen to love Canadians. I think they are wonderful people, as a rule. Except for the odd Quebecois or other. This, despite the fact that Canadians have always been horribly bad luck for me in a hunting camp. I might as well turn around and go home as hunt while a Canadian is sharing my camp.

But the only truly obnoxious experience I’ve ever had with a Canadian was with a Quebecois hunting guide.

We were hunting whitetail deer on Anticosti Island, in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, and spotted one from the truck. He was across a meadow, upwind from the truck. We piled out of the truck and took off after the buck.

We stalked fairly close, and I raised my rifle to shoot. But I was dismayed to find out that my scope was completely fogged. Not internally, but on the exterior of the lenses. It was so warm in the truck, and so cold outside, that condensation had instantly formed on both the ocular and objective lenses, which made the scope useless.

I told my guide that, and he asked me for my rifle.

Thinking that he meant to wipe the lenses clear with a cloth he carried, I gave him my rifle.

To my astonishment, he instantly raised it and shot at the deer!

Of course, he could not see what he was shooting at, and missed by a mile.

I snatched my rifle back, and shared a few choice words with him. Something along the lines of, “What the f**k are you doing, you stupid son of a b**ch!” - if I remember correctly. I could not believe he had done that. That was one of only two or three seriously WTF interpersonal moments I’ve ever had while hunting.

That put paid to any further discussion between him and me about hunting or anything else. Luckily or not, it was the last day of my hunt, so the awkwardness didn’t last long.

I heard secondhand from other guides, while flying back to Montreal on the DC-3, that my guide had been terribly upset that he did not get a tip!

I told them, c’est dommage.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13329 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree that most people are willing to give others the benefit of the doubt, and at least try to get along.

But unfortunately, there are exceptions, and we all run into them from time to time.

I happen to love Canadians. I think they are wonderful people, as a rule. Except for the odd Quebecois or other. This, despite the fact that Canadians have always been horribly bad luck for me in a hunting camp. I might as well turn around and go home as hunt while a Canadian is sharing my camp.

But the only truly obnoxious experience I’ve ever had with a Canadian was with a Quebecois hunting guide.Most people who go there are idiots.

We were hunting whitetail deer on Anticosti Island, in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, and spotted one from the truck. He was across a meadow, upwind from the truck. We piled out of the truck and took off after the buck.

We stalked fairly close, and I raised my rifle to shoot. But I was dismayed to find out that my scope was completely fogged. Not internally, but on the exterior of the lenses. It was so warm in the truck, and so cold outside, that condensation had instantly formed on both the ocular and objective lenses, which made the scope useless.

I told my guide that, and he asked me for my rifle.

Thinking that he meant to wipe the lenses clear with a cloth he carried, I gave him my rifle.

To my astonishment, he instantly raised it and shot at the deer!

Of course, he could not see what he was shooting at, and missed by a mile.

I snatched my rifle back, and shared a few choice words with him. Something along the lines of, “What the f**k are you doing, you stupid son of a b**ch!” - if I remember correctly. I could not believe he had done that. That was one of only two or three seriously WTF interpersonal moments I’ve ever had while hunting.

That put paid to any further discussion between him and me about hunting or anything else. Luckily or not, it was the last day of my hunt, so the awkwardness didn’t last long.

I heard secondhand from other guides, while flying back to Montreal on the DC-3, that my guide had been terribly upset that he did not get a tip!

I told them, c’est dommage.


I am not surprised about your guide in Quebec.Why anyone would choose to go to Anticosti for whitetail is beyond me.That is certainly not "hunting" in my book.
 
Posts: 143 | Registered: 21 July 2020Reply With Quote
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Actually, the hunting was good. It is a large island and the deer are abundant. Not huge trophies, but that’s not what I was after. I did manage to shoot a buck for the freezer on that trip.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13329 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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This is a good topic starter Ross. My thoughts immediately go to the posturing that takes place on the initial stages of the hunt, which actually begins the moment you shake hands upon arrival to camp.

1) I've never connected with a PH on day one but by the end of the hunt, we've always developed into good friends.

2) Nor do I want to have a wonderful great connection on day one. I want each of us, trackers, PH and myself to EARN each other's trust and deep friendship. If I booked with you, traveling across the world to come hunt with you, there must be something I already like about you.

3) If you can handle your business with your gun, that certainly helps grow the connection. Some PH's are more chatty than others. You as the client have to be able to know when to quiet down, and how to hunt quietly, non-verbally and read body language of the trackers and PH. Sometimes they don't want to tell you "everything", just to gauge how you react in the heat of the moment.

My overall advice would be this: Always respect the PH, guide and trackers for knowing way way way more than you, bcuz the hunting grounds serve as their natural backyard. We the client are just the part-timer as the 14, 17 or 21-day hunter. Having said that, you the client should never pull the trigger until you 100% feel "ready."

This is where the dis-"connect" sometimes starts to begin and issues arise. Once on an elk hunt, a guide scolded me for not shooting a small 5 X 5. He got in my face and told me, "When I order you to shoot, you shoot!" Things did not go well after that. (You might even be reading this right now on this board, for you know who you are.)

Judge the quality of a PH and a hunting operation not by how it starts, but by how it ends up. Be willing to make adjustments and raise your game and skill level as a hunter. Treat it as an education, with the outdoors being the classroom. You'll get tested numerous times along the way.
 
Posts: 636 | Location: The Hills | Registered: 24 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Bwana Moja:

This is where the dis-"connect" sometimes starts to begin and issues arise. Once on an elk hunt, a guide scolded me for not shooting a small 5 X 5. He got in my face and told me, "When I order you to shoot, you shoot!" Things did not go well after that. (You might even be reading this right now on this board, for you know who you are.)

.


Wow, that won't do at all.

What happened after that?
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Great post, Bwana.
 
Posts: 7772 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
This is a good topic starter Ross. My thoughts immediately go to the posturing that takes place on the initial stages of the hunt, which actually begins the moment you shake hands upon arrival to camp.

1) I've never connected with a PH on day one but by the end of the hunt, we've always developed into good friends.

2) Nor do I want to have a wonderful great connection on day one. I want each of us, trackers, PH and myself to EARN each other's trust and deep friendship. If I booked with you, traveling across the world to come hunt with you, there must be something I already like about you.

3) If you can handle your business with your gun, that certainly helps grow the connection. Some PH's are more chatty than others. You as the client have to be able to know when to quiet down, and how to hunt quietly, non-verbally and read body language of the trackers and PH. Sometimes they don't want to tell you "everything", just to gauge how you react in the heat of the moment.

My overall advice would be this: Always respect the PH, guide and trackers for knowing way way way more than you, bcuz the hunting grounds serve as their natural backyard. We the client are just the part-timer as the 14, 17 or 21-day hunter. Having said that, you the client should never pull the trigger until you 100% feel "ready."

This is where the dis-"connect" sometimes starts to begin and issues arise. Once on an elk hunt, a guide scolded me for not shooting a small 5 X 5. He got in my face and told me, "When I order you to shoot, you shoot!" Things did not go well after that. (You might even be reading this right now on this board, for you know who you are.)

Judge the quality of a PH and a hunting operation not by how it starts, but by how it ends up. Be willing to make adjustments and raise your game and skill level as a hunter. Treat it as an education, with the outdoors being the classroom. You'll get tested numerous times along the way.


Mark -

I agree with 99% of this. I believe where the disconnect grows form your identified point is that most clients "want the PH to like them".

If a disagreement, procedure or habit of your PH becomes a problem, most won't address it right then. They want to let it go. Unfortunately, the tension builds from there and you carry it the whole time.

I will immediately, tell him, her or it "hey..wait a minute" you just said, did such and such and I don't appreciate that.

I've had rude smokers for PH's, I'll just tell em'

I've told many hunting teams that I want to understand whats going on. When they speak in Swahili to one another, I want a translation (during a stalk) I learn, absorb a new tactic or technique that way. And I genuinely want to know.

I had a absolute picture taking Nazi that I finally handed his camera to a tracker and told him to have them take your pictures.

Every time, those things have been immediately corrected and normally are discussed in a friendly manner in the cruiser right away. Its your vacation, make sure things are done to your satisfaction and don't be shy to throw a red card when needed.

And no, I couldn't give one single shit if they like me. We're hunting, not dating. (I used to care)


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3342 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
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Hunting not dating that makes the most sense of anything I have read here.
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Big Grin tu2
 
Posts: 18517 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Relationships in life are funny.

We fired a obstetrician because she suggested that my wife was too old to have a healthy child and that she would be happy to "get rid of the problem".

I hired a gal I knew because of her personality and the fact that we as an office knew her, she has proven to be an asset and learns a lot everyday. She didn't show up with a I know everything about this job attitude as she was a health physicist instead of a safety and occupational health person (semantics for those outside the safety circle probably). We are thankful that we hired her, and best of all she was local to our area. There were more qualified people, none local, but she was charming and works hard.

The difference between the two was personality, and my wife didn't feel comfortable with a doctor that was out to kill my unborn spawn. Our health insurance gave us a wonderful doctor, and we had the interesting experience of visiting a doctors office on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills every couple of months. Then she delivered at Saint John's Health Center in Santa Monica same place the following celebrities died; Nat King Cole, Nancy Reagan, Dom Deluise, Farrah Fawcett, Blake Edwards, Dick Clark Eddie Van Halen and Dick Van Patten. Was pretty strange to be in a celebrity hospital.

These are longer relationships than you are going to have with your PH/Guide. They involve life or death situations and I care more about the outcome of these situations than I do the hunt.

In a hunt you both have the goal (or you both should have the goal) of having some memories and taking a few nice animals. Even if things are great you can move forward and keep it going.

You aren't stuck together beyond the hunt, and hunts are very short. Generally less than 30 days and often just 5 or 7.

I had not really thought of it as a business transaction, but it really is just a purchase.

If you go to Disneyworld and you stay at the Pop Century (or whatever it is called these days) and next time you decide you want to stay someplace nicer like the Grand Floridian (where they kiss your ass a little better) you can do that.

Hunts are the same way.

Never really thought about it that way, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense.

If you don't like them you have the option of not hunting with them again.
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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...make sure things are done to your satisfaction and don't be shy to throw a red card when needed.

And no, I couldn't give one single shit if they like me. We're hunting, not dating. (I used to care)

-------------
Steve I agree with you 100%. Excellent advice. I really really agree with what you said about wanting to be liked by PH (and rest of team.)

And yes the older we get at this stuff, the LESS we need someone's validation.
 
Posts: 636 | Location: The Hills | Registered: 24 January 2006Reply With Quote
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Then there was the "stalker" I hunted with in the Scottish Highlands. Scotland is a beautiful place, the land of my ancestors. But this guy missed the parents, or maybe the ten years in charm school, that he clearly needed to make him even sufferable as a human being.

On the first day of my hunt, we stalked up a hill until we were within range of a small herd of red deer. Of course, as is the custom, my stalker dragged my rifle up the hill in a gun sleeve.

Then he glassed the deer, and chose a stag, again as is the custom. The stag was surprisingly good, a twelve point royal.

Then he withdrew my rifle from the sleeve, passed it to me, and gave me permission to load it, as is also the custom.

Then he rolled up the sleeve, so that I could use it as a rest, and placed it on the ground in front of me.

Then he gave me permission to shoot the chosen stag.

I remember thinking at the time, "Am I being treated like royalty, or an idiot? Or is there no difference?" This Scottish red stag hunting was turning out to be very strange.

Anyway, all of that notwithstanding, I carefully aimed my rifle and fired. The stag faltered, and as the herd ran off, he moved away behind them, clearly hit.

My stalker growled, "You missed. Shoot him again, in the neck."

The stag was about 150 or so yards away, moving toward the top of a ridge, and I had a clear shot at his vitals. But I had been ordered to shoot him in the neck.

I was not happy, in the first place, to have been told I had missed the deer, when I had obviously hit him. And I was also unhappy, not to say perplexed, to then be told to follow up with a difficult shot to the neck.

But I nonetheless tried to make the shot, and not surprisingly missed.

I later learned that the estate was going to sell the venison from my kill on the commercial market, and that my stalker did not want me to spoil any more meat, and force a lower price, by taking a shoulder or lung shot. I am not a commercial hunter, and found, and still find, that policy to be repugnant. A wounded animal needs to be followed and put down fast, without regard to anything but that prime objective.

We watched the deer walk over the ridge, and then got up to follow him.

My stalker muttered at me, almost under his breath, "Shoot him when we see him. If you miss him again, I'm going to f**cking shoot him myself."

The stag was moving slowly, so we had actually made up some ground when we crested the ridge. I shot the stag again, this time ignoring my orders and putting my bullet high into the crease of his shoulder, as he quartered away. He went down instantly.

We then walked up to him and assured ourselves that the stag was dead. I examined him, and found that my first shot had been a low lung shot, and my second had shot out the top of his heart. Another stalker, who had been hanging back, came up in the Argo and began gralloching the stag. All the while, my stalker had been muttering what I took to be insults under his breath.

I then totally lost my temper with this guy. I put down my rifle, walked away and motioned him over. I told him that the only reason he had any teeth left in his mouth after talking to me that way was that we were chasing a wounded animal and I needed to put him down. I told him that if he had anything else he wanted to say to me, he needed to say it out loud, to my face and now.

All he could do was stutter an apology, and say that he was upset because he didn't want to have to chase after a wounded stag. He asked me if I wanted the cape and antlers, or to take any photos. I told him he could shove the whole stag up his ass as far as I was concerned, and that this hunt was over.

Our outfitter, a very nice guy, met me back at the estate house. I told him what had happened and that I was disgusted by it. I had another stag bought and paid for, and he offered me a third with another man to act as my stalker. But I had had enough. I had found the entire experience to be weird and my stalker to be a total asshole.

I gave my second stag to another hunter in our group of three, a very nice guy named Lenny from Philadelphia. I later learned that he killed my second to go along with his two.

Happily, I had a rental car, and bugged out of the highlands for Glasgow, where my wife was visiting with family.

After a day or two with family, we booked a round trip flight to Barcelona and made tapas out of a shit sandwich.

Nothing like that has ever happened on any of my many safaris to multiple countries in Africa. I'm not sure what it is about the USA, Europe and Asia, but in my experience, the standards of ability and professionalism for professional hunters in Africa are far, far higher.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13329 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Wow that is a shit sandwich.

What do you guys think about someone (the guide or an onlooker) yelling to shoot when you are in the final throws of the shooting sequence?

I think this is fairly unforgivable, they aren't seeing the same view through the scope you are.

Usually I am waiting for an animal to turn, or clear a rock or brush or a tree.

This has happened to be twice, not something I am fond of.
 
Posts: 7763 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Mike, that's an interesting story about the stag. i saw an episode of an old Steve RInella show where he went on a stag hunt and it was almost exactly as you describe. And when he killed the stag, the stalker was fairly shocked that steve wanted to gut the stag himself and also eat some of the meat in the field. It was like watching two planets collide. Not my cup of tea...
 
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and made tapas out of a shit sandwich.


Good on you Mike. That all sounded quite dreadful.


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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
This is a good topic starter Ross. My thoughts immediately go to the posturing that takes place on the initial stages of the hunt, which actually begins the moment you shake hands upon arrival to camp.

1) I've never connected with a PH on day one but by the end of the hunt, we've always developed into good friends.

2) Nor do I want to have a wonderful great connection on day one. I want each of us, trackers, PH and myself to EARN each other's trust and deep friendship. If I booked with you, traveling across the world to come hunt with you, there must be something I already like about you.

3) If you can handle your business with your gun, that certainly helps grow the connection. Some PH's are more chatty than others. You as the client have to be able to know when to quiet down, and how to hunt quietly, non-verbally and read body language of the trackers and PH. Sometimes they don't want to tell you "everything", just to gauge how you react in the heat of the moment.

My overall advice would be this: Always respect the PH, guide and trackers for knowing way way way more than you, bcuz the hunting grounds serve as their natural backyard. We the client are just the part-timer as the 14, 17 or 21-day hunter. Having said that, you the client should never pull the trigger until you 100% feel "ready."

This is where the dis-"connect" sometimes starts to begin and issues arise. Once on an elk hunt, a guide scolded me for not shooting a small 5 X 5. He got in my face and told me, "When I order you to shoot, you shoot!" Things did not go well after that. (You might even be reading this right now on this board, for you know who you are.)

Judge the quality of a PH and a hunting operation not by how it starts, but by how it ends up. Be willing to make adjustments and raise your game and skill level as a hunter. Treat it as an education, with the outdoors being the classroom. You'll get tested numerous times along the way.


Mark -

I agree with 99% of this. I believe where the disconnect grows form your identified point is that most clients "want the PH to like them".

If a disagreement, procedure or habit of your PH becomes a problem, most won't address it right then. They want to let it go. Unfortunately, the tension builds from there and you carry it the whole time.

I will immediately, tell him, her or it "hey..wait a minute" you just said, did such and such and I don't appreciate that.

I've had rude smokers for PH's, I'll just tell em'

I've told many hunting teams that I want to understand whats going on. When they speak in Swahili to one another, I want a translation (during a stalk) I learn, absorb a new tactic or technique that way. And I genuinely want to know.

I had a absolute picture taking Nazi that I finally handed his camera to a tracker and told him to have them take your pictures.

Every time, those things have been immediately corrected and normally are discussed in a friendly manner in the cruiser right away. Its your vacation, make sure things are done to your satisfaction and don't be shy to throw a red card when needed.

And no, I couldn't give one single shit if they like me. We're hunting, not dating. (I used to care)


Steve,

I agree with all that you say but for the majority, you will find the PH's job is mainly public relations. Within a day or so of your safari, you should be comfortable with the team, and whilst there are no guarantees in free range hunting you should be able to go away feeling that your money was well spent.

I hunted Leopard with Mike Robinson and we had the choice of a representative Leopard near camp or a crack at a difficult previously hunted brute. For the sake of some brush or fading light, I just could not make the call on the big cat. But in 14 days we hunted well and experienced many exciting times and we all got on very well.

The lesser male was shot later by another hunter on the first sitting and it would have not been what Mike wanted.

My point is if you are spending your hard-earned cash on a hunt/vacation then you should get a maximum return for your dollar and enjoying yourself.


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Posts: 9846 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Great storys...
But for sure: I meet good and bad PHs/Guides, like allways in live.

But:
It is my hunt and my adventuere.
So I prefere to hunt alone or with an pure guide" (only know the are, without an rifle).

I many countrys in europe is that leagel (even in scottland), sad: Not many in africa.
But:
If you hunt the right place, more with an farmer (on his own land) as an "PH", he will let you go alone after some days.
And that is the real adventure, in my eyes.

(Not 5 man in an line, with 4 guns.
That looks sometimes more like an SWAT-Team as an hunt.)


 
Posts: 856 | Registered: 13 March 2011Reply With Quote
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I’ve been extremely lucky in choosing my PH for my five African hunts. After researching PH’s here on AR, I did my due diligence and checked references on Jan du Plessis of Sebra Hunting Safaris. All of the references agreed that the hunting was outstanding, the food was gourmet quality, and the pricing was very competitive. I’ve hunted with Sebra in 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017 and 2019. The years I didn’t hunt were due to surgeries on my knee, gall bladder and hernia. I keep in touch with Jan via WhatsApp and will hunt with him again in 2022 when this COVID crap blows over.

I wish I could say I had the same luck with US outfitters. I hunted eight times with an outfitter in eastern Montana. His prices were reasonable, the food was good, and I tagged nice 4 X4’s every year. On my ninth hunt, the outfitter stuck me with a guide who had never set foot on the land we hunted. It turns out the outfitter lost the lease I previously had hunted, but he failed to tell me that. Coupled with an incompetent guide, that area of Montana had had a tremendous winter die off, and 90% of the mulies had been wiped out, along with 100% of the antelope and 99% of the whitetails due to EHD outbreak. In five hard days of hunting, we saw two shooter mulie bucks- one on private land we didn’t have permission to hunt, and the other the guide spooked off during the stalk. The final straw was the food. The Cook who had previously done a fine job developed an attitude problem. She failed to serve bacon with our morning eggs and on two mornings failed to serve coffee. She was surly to everybody and took it out on the 8 hunters in camp. Of the 8 hunters, only 2 small 3X3’s were shot in 5 days of dawn to dusk hunting. Needless to say I have written that outfitter off my list for future Mulie hunts.


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Posts: 1381 | Location: Lake Bluff, IL | Registered: 02 May 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Moja:
This is a good topic starter Ross. My thoughts immediately go to the posturing that takes place on the initial stages of the hunt, which actually begins the moment you shake hands upon arrival to camp.

1) I've never connected with a PH on day one but by the end of the hunt, we've always developed into good friends.

2) Nor do I want to have a wonderful great connection on day one. I want each of us, trackers, PH and myself to EARN each other's trust and deep friendship. If I booked with you, traveling across the world to come hunt with you, there must be something I already like about you.

3) If you can handle your business with your gun, that certainly helps grow the connection. Some PH's are more chatty than others. You as the client have to be able to know when to quiet down, and how to hunt quietly, non-verbally and read body language of the trackers and PH. Sometimes they don't want to tell you "everything", just to gauge how you react in the heat of the moment.

My overall advice would be this: Always respect the PH, guide and trackers for knowing way way way more than you, bcuz the hunting grounds serve as their natural backyard. We the client are just the part-timer as the 14, 17 or 21-day hunter. Having said that, you the client should never pull the trigger until you 100% feel "ready."

This is where the dis-"connect" sometimes starts to begin and issues arise. Once on an elk hunt, a guide scolded me for not shooting a small 5 X 5. He got in my face and told me, "When I order you to shoot, you shoot!" Things did not go well after that. (You might even be reading this right now on this board, for you know who you are.)

Judge the quality of a PH and a hunting operation not by how it starts, but by how it ends up. Be willing to make adjustments and raise your game and skill level as a hunter. Treat it as an education, with the outdoors being the classroom. You'll get tested numerous times along the way.


Mark -

I agree with 99% of this. I believe where the disconnect grows form your identified point is that most clients "want the PH to like them".

If a disagreement, procedure or habit of your PH becomes a problem, most won't address it right then. They want to let it go. Unfortunately, the tension builds from there and you carry it the whole time.

I will immediately, tell him, her or it "hey..wait a minute" you just said, did such and such and I don't appreciate that.

I've had rude smokers for PH's, I'll just tell em'

I've told many hunting teams that I want to understand whats going on. When they speak in Swahili to one another, I want a translation (during a stalk) I learn, absorb a new tactic or technique that way. And I genuinely want to know.

I had a absolute picture taking Nazi that I finally handed his camera to a tracker and told him to have them take your pictures.

Every time, those things have been immediately corrected and normally are discussed in a friendly manner in the cruiser right away. Its your vacation, make sure things are done to your satisfaction and don't be shy to throw a red card when needed.

And no, I couldn't give one single shit if they like me. We're hunting, not dating. (I used to care)


Steve,

I agree with all that you say but for the majority, you will find the PH's job is mainly public relations. Within a day or so of your safari, you should be comfortable with the team, and whilst there are no guarantees in free range hunting you should be able to go away feeling that your money was well spent.

I hunted Leopard with Mike Robinson and we had the choice of a representative Leopard near camp or a crack at a difficult previously hunted brute. For the sake of some brush or fading light, I just could not make the call on the big cat. But in 14 days we hunted well and experienced many exciting times and we all got on very well.

The lesser male was shot later by another hunter on the first sitting and it would have not been what Mike wanted.

My point is if you are spending your hard-earned cash on a hunt/vacation then you should get a maximum return for your dollar and enjoying yourself.


100% agree. However, I have made the leap that being friends isn't my goal. Being friendly always is.

I want to laugh I want to learn and I expect a 100% effort to successfully hunt all my species, knowing full well that may not always be the case.

I believe you understand some of the path that led me here.

If I go out to purchase a new F250 or employ the services of a Taxidermist, I expect the same. Great, timely service and an experience we both came away from with a good feeling. However, making lifelong friends isn't the goal.

Spending 14, 21 or even 28 days with someone, nearly 24 hours a day, time will decide if there will be a continued relationship, not the individuals. (my belief)

in 2005, I spent 34 days in Zambia continuous. I did 10 days in Tondwa then a 21 Day Lion/Leopard Buff in Nyaminga. To this day it was by a long shot, one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. From walking through Swamps for Sitatunga with Terry to facing down an enraged Lion, poorly shot with Alister. But to assume there was or should be a friendship forged from that is, in my opinion a mistake.

Having a great time and managing your expectations are both things I have been able to understand through the experience I've gained.

My only lifelong friends are my Wife and Son. Always there, no matter what.


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3342 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
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I hear you guys talking about "not needing to be liked by the PH" and "it's just a business deal" and all. I understand, it's your money and your hunt so the hunt is what matters most.

That said, I still enjoy the hunting experience much more when I connect with the PH. I like the camaraderie of the team and especially, my interactions with the PH. I don't show up with a chip on my shoulder, demanding the PH earn my respect, etc. I show up to have a good time on my dime. For me, a safari IS more than a business deal. It's an overall experience. I have been assigned a PH I didn't connect with. Hunted with him twice. He was a true professional and we either got the game we were after, or I turned down a shot looking for better. But I only agreed to hunt with him the second time because of his appy. His appy and I hit it off within the first few minutes of being introduced. The appy eventually got his PH license and I've hunted with him several times now, and look forward to doing so again.

I get it the discussion guys. But for me, I still prefer to hunt with friends. That doesn't mean I don't understand there is a business relationship in place as well. Yes, the business relationship can exist without the friendship and you can get the animals you desired for your hunt. But I prefer the business relationship with the friendship aspect. It enhances my experience when reliving the memories. YMMV however and that's perfectly OK.
 
Posts: 8483 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I hear you guys talking about "not needing to be liked by the PH" and "it's just a business deal" and all. I understand, it's your money and your hunt so the hunt is what matters most.

That said, I still enjoy the hunting experience much more when I connect with the PH. I like the camaraderie of the team and especially, my interactions with the PH. I don't show up with a chip on my shoulder, demanding the PH earn my respect, etc. I show up to have a good time on my dime. For me, a safari IS more than a business deal. It's an overall experience. I have been assigned a PH I didn't connect with. Hunted with him twice. He was a true professional and we either got the game we were after, or I turned down a shot looking for better. But I only agreed to hunt with him the second time because of his appy. His appy and I hit it off within the first few minutes of being introduced. The appy eventually got his PH license and I've hunted with him several times now, and look forward to doing so again.

I get it the discussion guys. But for me, I still prefer to hunt with friends. That doesn't mean I don't understand there is a business relationship in place as well. Yes, the business relationship can exist without the friendship and you can get the animals you desired for your hunt. But I prefer the business relationship with the friendship aspect. It enhances my experience when reliving the memories. YMMV however and that's perfectly OK.


Todd, I'm reading that you think I go in with a chip on my shoulder. If that's your belief, I won't argue.

However, there is a huge delta in seeking that friendship or allowing it to form organically.

If my showing up, fit, focused, rifles ready, being able to see the animals and in most cases, make the shot isn't enough to garner the respect for being prepared for whatever, I don't care beyond that. The rest is just jewelry.

Playing games to seek approval is yet another. I don't need validation.

Again, seeking versus allowing it organically.

YMMV. Cool


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3342 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
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Too add.

As I've said I'm in the process of booking a Maasailand hunt. I have yet to ask my agent who the PH is. It is unimportant to me. Whats important is the GMA. The rest will work itself out.


Formerly "Nganga"
 
Posts: 3342 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: 26 April 2010Reply With Quote
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If a disagreement, procedure or habit of your PH becomes a problem, most won't address it right then. They want to let it go. Unfortunately, the tension builds from there and you carry it the whole time.


The above is so true. By not addressing the perceived problem the client can destroy his own safari. The PH cannot fix what he doesn't know about. By not speaking up even a small problem can blow up into a big issue which I hear about at safari's end.

PH's are not Princes of the Bush that are not to be questioned. They are people you hire to provide a service for the duration of your safari and nothing more. If you have questions about that service bring it to the PH's attention immediately. I think in most cases the PH can fix whatever the issue might be.

Mark


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Posts: 12842 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Like Mark said, PH's and Guides are people we hire. They are working for us. Think about it.
 
Posts: 712 | Location: Corrales, New Mexico | Registered: 03 February 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I hear you guys talking about "not needing to be liked by the PH" and "it's just a business deal" and all. I understand, it's your money and your hunt so the hunt is what matters most.

That said, I still enjoy the hunting experience much more when I connect with the PH. I like the camaraderie of the team and especially, my interactions with the PH. I don't show up with a chip on my shoulder, demanding the PH earn my respect, etc. I show up to have a good time on my dime. For me, a safari IS more than a business deal. It's an overall experience. I have been assigned a PH I didn't connect with. Hunted with him twice. He was a true professional and we either got the game we were after, or I turned down a shot looking for better. But I only agreed to hunt with him the second time because of his appy. His appy and I hit it off within the first few minutes of being introduced. The appy eventually got his PH license and I've hunted with him several times now, and look forward to doing so again.

I get it the discussion guys. But for me, I still prefer to hunt with friends. That doesn't mean I don't understand there is a business relationship in place as well. Yes, the business relationship can exist without the friendship and you can get the animals you desired for your hunt. But I prefer the business relationship with the friendship aspect. It enhances my experience when reliving the memories. YMMV however and that's perfectly OK.


Todd, I'm reading that you think I go in with a chip on my shoulder. If that's your belief, I won't argue.

However, there is a huge delta in seeking that friendship or allowing it to form organically.

If my showing up, fit, focused, rifles ready, being able to see the animals and in most cases, make the shot isn't enough to garner the respect for being prepared for whatever, I don't care beyond that. The rest is just jewelry.

Playing games to seek approval is yet another. I don't need validation.

Again, seeking versus allowing it organically.

YMMV. Cool


Steve, no. Wasn't referring to your post about the chip on shoulder and demanding to earn respect. That was from another's post.

You and I have discussed this before. We just view it differently. It's not a big deal.

But to be sure, I don't play games to be "liked" either. I just do believe friendships develop between hunters and PH's and I prefer to hunt with those guys. And I understand the friendship when in the hunting field takes a back seat to the business deal at hand. A friend wouldn't jeopardize the friendship by shirking on the business part of the relationship.

Here's an example. When I did my first Russian brown bear hunt in 2007, the guides were real assholes. Especially the head guide, named Vasili. Due to my inexperience both with brown bears and guided hunts, I ended up with a small bear on day 1. I went back to the same place, same camp, same guides in 2009 because I saw the size of bears that were possible and for the price. I scored on a good bear the second time out. None of those guides would I ever consider "friendly" or a friend. But I got my bear.

On the other end of the spectrum, I've formed real friendships with a couple of guys at CMS. One of the reasons I go back with them over and over is I enjoy time spent in the field with the guys just as much as I do the hunting. I like hunting with friends. If there was a specific species I was interested in and knew it was purely a business deal to go on that hunt, I would have no problem doing so. But at this point in my hunting activities, I prefer hunting with folks I know I'm going to have a good time with, outside of the hunting activities themselves.

It's just a difference in what we are after in our hunts personally. Not a big deal and certainly my focus is only right for me. Not saying anyone else needs to agree.
 
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Steve's way of thinking is best because sometimes people don't come through.It is very important for the hunter to have a good time but it might not be as important for anyone else including your PH.
 
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Everyone is different and personalities often clash but can be mitigated by being open minded and often just relax
Definitely also important to state right at the beginning of the hunt...don’t rush me to shoot, just because I don’t see game the moment you do don’t mean I’m blind etc...you get the rift
Also PH have to be diplomatic as well and that depends how they were taught and of course on their personality
Lots of stuff depends on us hunters, because we can be the biggest assholes, pompous prick and thinking everyone is beneath us because they, the PH and trackers “ work “ for us...careful about that
In the end , always smile and laugh...and your hunt will be then OK


" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

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Posts: 13376 | Location: In mountains behind my house hunting or drinking beer in Blacksmith Brewery in Stevensville MT or holed up in Lochsa | Registered: 27 December 2012Reply With Quote
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I absolutely see Steve's point, but I agree with Todd. Been fortunate enough to hunt my favorite place Masiland, 5 times. First with a great (now retired) PH, had a great time and, a wonderful safari. last 4 PH number 2 and I just hit it off from the moment we met, we have killed awesome animals and had great times, I hunted with him in other countries as well.

Have had 4 Ph's total liked everyone, but PH #2
and I just click, we think a like and, hunt a like,I can't wait to get back.

A hunt to me is great experience, and vacation!
I can see all sides, to each his own.
 
Posts: 558 | Location: texas | Registered: 29 March 2008Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Then there was the "stalker" I hunted with in the Scottish Highlands. Scotland is a beautiful place, the land of my ancestors. But this guy missed the parents, or maybe the ten years in charm school, that he clearly needed to make him even sufferable as a human being.

On the first day of my hunt, we stalked up a hill until we were within range of a small herd of red deer. Of course, as is the custom, my stalker dragged my rifle up the hill in a gun sleeve.

Then he glassed the deer, and chose a stag, again as is the custom. The stag was surprisingly good, a twelve point royal.

Then he withdrew my rifle from the sleeve, passed it to me, and gave me permission to load it, as is also the custom.

Then he rolled up the sleeve, so that I could use it as a rest, and placed it on the ground in front of me.

Then he gave me permission to shoot the chosen stag.

I remember thinking at the time, "Am I being treated like royalty, or an idiot? Or is there no difference?" This Scottish red stag hunting was turning out to be very strange.

Anyway, all of that notwithstanding, I carefully aimed my rifle and fired. The stag faltered, and as the herd ran off, he moved away behind them, clearly hit.

My stalker growled, "You missed. Shoot him again, in the neck."

The stag was about 150 or so yards away, moving toward the top of a ridge, and I had a clear shot at his vitals. But I had been ordered to shoot him in the neck.

I was not happy, in the first place, to have been told I had missed the deer, when I had obviously hit him. And I was also unhappy, not to say perplexed, to then be told to follow up with a difficult shot to the neck.

But I nonetheless tried to make the shot, and not surprisingly missed.

I later learned that the estate was going to sell the venison from my kill on the commercial market, and that my stalker did not want me to spoil any more meat, and force a lower price, by taking a shoulder or lung shot. I am not a commercial hunter, and found, and still find, that policy to be repugnant. A wounded animal needs to be followed and put down fast, without regard to anything but that prime objective.

We watched the deer walk over the ridge, and then got up to follow him.

My stalker muttered at me, almost under his breath, "Shoot him when we see him. If you miss him again, I'm going to f**cking shoot him myself."

The stag was moving slowly, so we had actually made up some ground when we crested the ridge. I shot the stag again, this time ignoring my orders and putting my bullet high into the crease of his shoulder, as he quartered away. He went down instantly.

We then walked up to him and assured ourselves that the stag was dead. I examined him, and found that my first shot had been a low lung shot, and my second had shot out the top of his heart. Another stalker, who had been hanging back, came up in the Argo and began gralloching the stag. All the while, my stalker had been muttering what I took to be insults under his breath.

I then totally lost my temper with this guy. I put down my rifle, walked away and motioned him over. I told him that the only reason he had any teeth left in his mouth after talking to me that way was that we were chasing a wounded animal and I needed to put him down. I told him that if he had anything else he wanted to say to me, he needed to say it out loud, to my face and now.

All he could do was stutter an apology, and say that he was upset because he didn't want to have to chase after a wounded stag. He asked me if I wanted the cape and antlers, or to take any photos. I told him he could shove the whole stag up his ass as far as I was concerned, and that this hunt was over.

Our outfitter, a very nice guy, met me back at the estate house. I told him what had happened and that I was disgusted by it. I had another stag bought and paid for, and he offered me a third with another man to act as my stalker. But I had had enough. I had found the entire experience to be weird and my stalker to be a total asshole.

I gave my second stag to another hunter in our group of three, a very nice guy named Lenny from Philadelphia. I later learned that he killed my second to go along with his two.

Happily, I had a rental car, and bugged out of the highlands for Glasgow, where my wife was visiting with family.

After a day or two with family, we booked a round trip flight to Barcelona and made tapas out of a shit sandwich.

Nothing like that has ever happened on any of my many safaris to multiple countries in Africa. I'm not sure what it is about the USA, Europe and Asia, but in my experience, the standards of ability and professionalism for professional hunters in Africa are far, far higher.



You weren’t hunting on Pitmain Estate, were you? Sounds a lot like a gamekeeper I hunted with on that estate.
 
Posts: 3835 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
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In the end , always smile and laugh...and your hunt will be then OK


Yep


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Posts: 9846 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by DLS:
You weren’t hunting on Pitmain Estate, were you? Sounds a lot like a gamekeeper I hunted with on that estate.


No, it was Sherramore Lodge.


Mike

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Posts: 13329 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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Nine trips to Africa and I've had two guys I would never hunt with again. One was fired immediately after my hunt and the other had no intention of ever talking to me from the first minute of the hunt till the last. Imagine hunting with a person for 14 days that refuses to talk.
That being said, ALL of those hunts were better than a mule deer and 2 elk hunts in New Mexico. Drunk guide, camp cook for guide and a mountain tour guide that didn't know what an elk looked like. I spent more money on those hunts than I did on some of my Africa hunts. Have never gone on another guided U.S. hunt again, totally burned me out.
Live and learn!
 
Posts: 725 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 March 2007Reply With Quote
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There was one that was particularly dead but I don't even think he held a PH license. Cold fish with a sullen wife. His Daddy owned a chunk of Zimbabwe, and he guided on that property. Daddy was just as unpleasant. Not a popular family, they helped Mugabe and his pals during the war. That's the reason his daddy was able to hang onto his farm.

There were a couple that were OK on a personal level but not very effective. On the other hand there were a couple who were green and a bit awkward but could hunt.

There was one, in Alaska, that I sued. He was actually an electrician from Arizona. He was the outfitter, his guides were drunks, his camp was a sorry excuse for a camp. He sent us up the river with some MREs while he entertained some German clients in our camp.

There was another one in Zim that was very good as a PH, OK on a personal level, but he had a disregard for the law so I ran the other way. He did some time for his sins.

One of the Zim PHs I hunted with was abusive of his staff, which made things unpleasant.

There were some good ones. Scott Guthrie in Zim is a seasoned and professional PH who is very easy to get along with. A guy in Botswana whose name I don't recall, van Zyl something I think, was a gifted hunter and you just felt at ease in his company. Louis van Bergen of Spiral Horn in RSA is a gentleman and can conduct a mature conversation on any number of topics.

Having said all that, clients are not perfect either. One in particular, now deceased, made a habit of insulting a German client with who we shared a camp over dinner every night. He also had a temper fit when I tried to point out that his scope was loose on his rifle, which was why he missed a kudu by a mile. Another one wounded a buffalo by shooting it in the rear end with an 8 bore rifle and then acted like a 2 year old for the balance of the hunt.

I think you could get a PHD in psychology if you hunted enough.


Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
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