quote:

Originally posted by muygrande:
On my buff/plains game I used 375 HH and a custom 338-06 with 210 TTSX. All plains game
were one shot and done not so much the buff and five shots later! Not bad shots either.

All I can say about the above statement is, Either you are using the wrong bullets, or your handloads are weak, if those shots were in the right place on the buff! I've never had to shoot a buffalo twice with my 375 H&H bolt rifle, and my hand loads.
I have several double rifles but if I take two rifles one is the scoped 375 H&H bolt, and the other is a 470 NE Merkel double rifle with iron sights.
..............................Works for me! MacD37

I have shot, and killed, hundreds of buffalo, dozens of elephants and lions, hippos, crocs, with a 375.

And I am right here to tell all about it.

All these animals, obviously, were not adequately dangerous!

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:


Pouring scorn on someone who has an opinion that does not conform to your notions is what politicians do, it's a low form of debate. It's called a "smear". Rather, you should cite your own qualifications to bolster your opinion, I respect that. I disregard icons as a form of debate.

Pouring scorn on the debate participant is exactly what you did Russ with your comment about internet experts. I responded in kind and you evidently objected to it as much as I did! I agree, it's a low form of debate and I only engage in it when invited to roll in the mud by the other participant.

As to my qualifications of opinion, and the reason I took exception to the "internet expert" accusation, I should think I've posted enough hunt reports and videos on AR from my Africa experiences to not be labeled as such. Many on this site have more experience than I do but I have taken multiples all the African DG except Crock, and used various calibers in the process ranging from the 9.3x74R on the low end to the 577 NE in the process.

I will agree with you 100% in that I prefer to use a lager caliber than 375 on DG. But to suggest the 375 isn't legal in all African countries currently allowing hunting today is not opinion ... it is an incorrect statement, pure and simple. If it's your opinion the 450-400 isn't adequate for DG, I can respect that as your opinion, but that caliber is not outlawed anywhere I know of in Africa either. Whether the 450/400 generates 4,000 ft. lbs, slightly over or under, the only place I see where it might be close is Botswana with the 5400 joule requirement, which when converted to ft. lbs, is 3,900 ft. lbs. and change, not 4,000, and closely in line with your stated 3,900 and change number for certain loadings. Again, your statement, as an opinion is valid ... as a fact, it is not.

I share your opinions on suitable calibers. My preference is the 500NE and 416 Rigby. I've taken lion, hippo, and several buffalo with the 416, and 5 elephants along with several buffalo with the 500 NE. I've also taken several buffalo, a leopard, and a lioness with the 375. It works, but again, I share your opinion on preference for the larger calibers. But they are preferences, not legal requirements anywhere on the continent at present.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:


Pouring scorn on someone who has an opinion that does not conform to your notions is what politicians do, it's a low form of debate. It's called a "smear". Rather, you should cite your own qualifications to bolster your opinion, I respect that. I disregard icons as a form of debate.

Pouring scorn on the debate participant is exactly what you did Russ with your comment about internet experts. I responded in kind and you evidently objected to it as much as I did! I agree, it's a low form of debate and I only engage in it when invited to roll in the mud by the other participant.

As to my qualifications of opinion, and the reason I took exception to the "internet expert" accusation, I should think I've posted enough hunt reports and videos on AR from my Africa experiences to not be labeled as such. Many on this site have more experience than I do but I have taken multiples all the African DG except Crock, and used various calibers in the process ranging from the 9.3x74R on the low end to the 577 NE in the process.

I will agree with you 100% in that I prefer to use a lager caliber than 375 on DG. But to suggest the 375 isn't legal in all African countries currently allowing hunting today is not opinion ... it is an incorrect statement, pure and simple. If it's your opinion the 450-400 isn't adequate for DG, I can respect that as your opinion, but that caliber is not outlawed anywhere I know of in Africa either. Whether the 450/400 generates 4,000 ft. lbs, slightly over or under, the only place I see where it might be close is Botswana with the 5400 joule requirement, which when converted to ft. lbs, is 3,900 ft. lbs. and change, not 4,000, and closely in line with your stated 3,900 and change number for certain loadings. Again, your statement, as an opinion is valid ... as a fact, it is not.

I share your opinions on suitable calibers. My preference is the 500NE and 416 Rigby. I've taken lion, hippo, and several buffalo with the 416, and 5 elephants along with several buffalo with the 500 NE. I've also taken several buffalo, a leopard, and a lioness with the 375. It works, but again, I share your opinion on preference for the larger calibers. But they are preferences, not legal requirements anywhere on the continent at present.

Hi Todd -

Our (AR) collective experience, as a group is formative enough for me, to considered more than just opinion and maybe even could be considered empirical data.

Buffalo are tough, yet a .375 is plenty, hell I bet I could stack up one shot kills with a .300 Win mag if truth be told. But why not use the big stuff? I like to shoot them with my .500NE Armeria de Madrid, just for traditional sake, if nothing else.

But, as you say opinions vary, facts don't. But that never stopped a good old fashion AR donnybrook from erupting.

Regards,

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


Hi Todd -

Our (AR) collective experience, as a group is formative enough for me, to considered more than just opinion and maybe even could be considered empirical data.

Buffalo are tough, yet a .375 is plenty, hell I bet I could stack up one shot kills with a .300 Win mag if truth be told. But why not use the big stuff? I like to shoot them with my .500NE Armeria de Madrid, just for traditional sake, if nothing else.

But, as you say opinions vary, facts don't. But that never stopped a good old fashion AR donnybrook from erupting.

Regards,

Steve

Truth spoken there Steve, as usual my friend.

Like you, I like shooting the big stuff with the big guns, even though it's legal to use the 375.

In fact, several countries allow the 9.3 in various flavors!

I used the 450-400-3" throughout my 40 years of hunting Africa, a 400 gr. bullet at 2050 FPS with my loads, and about 25FP less with factory stuff..I was more than satisfied with it. I had several as a matter of fact...I have to take exception to your post on that count Russ..
I also used the 404 loaded at 2400 FPS as my favored bolt gun, I simply could not tell the difference in the killing fields between the two..

As to pouring scorn, I got the impression that if one lives in a glass house he shouldn't throw rocks, I see your post as scornful, and scornful is something we are all guilty off from time to time!

Anyone who tells you one caliber kills quicker than another is dreaming!

After watching countless animals being shot, by all sorts of calibers, this point was brought home to me.

Hunt with whatever rifle feels right for you.

I guess my point on 400s should have been more clear, it's more about MASS.
The 400s have 10% greater diameter, bigger hole, more blood, and 1/3 MORE WEIGHT.... for bone smashing!!
Remember, WDM BELL killed many a elephant with the 7x57, 275 Rigby.... he was a true EXPERT.... not something others should try!!
Again, Saeed is clearly an EXPERT, not many have that experience, other than PHs!!
YUP, 375 H&H works.... I like it BIGGER!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Anyone who tells you one caliber kills quicker than another is dreaming!

After watching countless animals being shot, by all sorts of calibers, this point was brought home to me.

Hunt with whatever rifle feels right for you.

Does this mean if one feel more "right" with a .308win for buffalo its just fine?..sort of 'obey your feelings type' advise?

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Anyone who tells you one caliber kills quicker than another is dreaming!

After watching countless animals being shot, by all sorts of calibers, this point was brought home to me.

Hunt with whatever rifle feels right for you.

Does this mean if one feel more "right" with a .308win for buffalo its just fine?..sort of 'obey your feelings type' advise?

I have absolutely, positively NO RESERVATION about using a 308 for buffalo.

What kills is the destruction of vital organs.

A brain shot buffalo with a 22 or 700 will die instantly!

The deadliest cartridge I have ever known.

I have personally tested it on everything from crows to elephants, and everything in between.

NEVER failed

Sure .375 H H and 30-06 is great. Been there, done that , and very effective. Great choice with a good PH backup. But as has been stated by some, I also like using my other rifles, working up loads in preparation and planning choice based on animals and terrain.

My boys usually come with me and hunt PG. one likes .300 WBY / 30-06 in open spaces like Namibia but 45-70 double for Zim and SA bush. The other son will only use his 30-378 WBY for everything ie PG and elk and mule deer. Shot one at 500 y this year. If we are jumping off LC to follow buff in bush, I take .577 NE double, not needed but just love shooting it. My PG and open bush go to is a .505 Gibbs. For lots of long hikes all day long, while I ve taken the .577, I prefer now to carry a .458 Lott in reed beds hiking rivers. Getting older. Oh, for longer shots in NA where legal like CO and NM, I love my .375/Gibbs 505 based case or .338/ Gibbs 505 case for elk and mule deer. Whitetail .....458 Lott with 300 gr TSX. Accurate to 360 yards. Got to be straight walled to be legal in OH.


But if I was forced to take one for everything, .458 Lott. I ve never taken my .375 / Gibbs 505 s to Africa, but could. Just never had the time to work up a good bullet. Tried GSC solid. If a Berger comes out I ll try it. Or a Walters? The problem is the 3000 to 3270 velocity would probably make most bullets on buffalo frangiable and just shatter. I once saw Craig Boddington used .350 SMK on a buffalo but I ve seen them shatter hitting bone on elk and that s what I use for the .375s. Berger’s hybrid for 338. All s well but hit a buffalo rib and a SMK may not penetrate.

Saeed. Do you sell the .375 Walters? Sounds like they are accurate to at least 400 y? What kind of groupings and BC do you get?

Expert: "one with the special skill or knowledge representing mastery of a particular subject".

Going on a guided hunt where the PH does everything except pull the trigger does not make one an expert. Even if you do that several times. Researching a topic on the internet does not elevate one to the level of expert either. You really have to engage in the field for a living to be an expert. Perhaps written a book or two. Certainly spent a good part of one's life immersed in the field in which one claims expertise.

When it comes to the hunting of Dangerous Game, I would say there are probably less than 100 people in the history of the world, who can claim to be experts, and even some of those have lopsided expertise. I met a man who killed more than 400 lions. I would say he is a lion expert. But he never killed an elephant and knew little of buffalo hunting since his stomping grounds were the dry sands of the Kalahari Desert. Most of the experts are rangers who conducted culling operations. Don Heath comes to mind. I would put those who hunt(ed) for a living in that category. Bell, Sutherland etc. Several PHs of course.

Today, 99.9% of sport hunters simply cannot afford to become experts. Sorry, guys, most of you are not experts.

Of the modern trophy hunters, besides Saeed who appears to be a modern day Bell lite (only with a 375 albeit not the H&H version), I can only think of one or two who might come close: Boddington, hate to say it as I am not a Boddington groupie, but the man has pulled the trigger quite a bit, does gun stuff for a living these days, and has written a book or two. Another gent I came across owns a Purdey double rifle and is well on his way to killing as many elephants with it as the serial number on his rifle. I would class him as an expert on Elephant hunting. And it's not a 375.

Even though I have been involved in all aspects of firearms and particularly doubles and large bores for more than 25 years, I don't consider myself an expert as I stated above, for I have not hunted enough to claim to be an expert. I have done plenty of shooting, restoration, repair, regulation, buying and selling, but not enough hunting.

So yes, I am skeptical of most of the "expert" advice I see on this thread, and on this site in general. My comment about internet experts was not targeted at any specific person even though it appears to have been a direct hit. Call it scorn if you will. (I don't think I made any direct personal attack and I certainly did not stoop to the use of cartoonish "emojis".) An awful lot of opinions you see in print are a rehash of other opinions published on the internet and in print.

And I am rather dismayed by the obvious displays of hubris by those who don't care to have their "expertise" questioned. And yes, this comment is directed.

Finally, the ruling of the Game Dept in Kenya, once the capital of the Safari industry, during a time when all these calibers were available, Saeed's favorite excepted, is not irrelevant. They felt that the 375 calibers were not up to the task. Especially in the hands of foreign hunters. There is an element of truth to the McComber (?sp) short story.

quote:

Originally posted by LR3:
Saeed. Do you sell the .375 Walters? Sounds like they are accurate to at least 400 y? What kind of groupings and BC do you get?

Both rifles we use are very accurate.

This target was shot by mine after several years of hunting.

I have no idea about the BC.

"Finally, the ruling of the Game Dept in Kenya,"

They decided that hunting should be banned too.

I will tell the Kenyan Game Department to stick it!

Thanks Saeed. That is wonderfully impressive!

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by 460 wby shooter:
I was thinking for bullets I'd use a 300 grain Swift A-frame or Barnes X for the 375 and for the 30-06 I was thinking 180 grain Swift A frame or nosler partition. However I am open to suggestions.

You are good to go

I will second the post above! Two classics. The 375 H&H is one of the best all around rifle for just about anything short of close quarters with a mad elephant in tight bush. I have hunted Africa on several occasions with one rifle and it was a 375 H&H for several head of Plaines game, and buffalo, and hippo with only the difference with bullet types for the hippo using a solid. All the rest of the bag was using swift a-frames. All one shot kills except the little impala where I missed heart with the first shot at 120 yards, and had to give him a second round. The hippo was dead with a brain shot, and buffalo was down after a 20 yard run using a swift 300 gr
A-frame.
.....................Enjoy!
................................. MacD37