I have switched between two rifles quite a bit, because my big bore has no scope. And like Andrew said, it's great to hunt with more of your favorite rifles.

You can always check with your PH before the safari, there is likely a camp 375 or 416 if something went wrong with your 375. You can't plan for everything, but a second scope set in rings & a wrench to change a scope out takes in a large swath of potential rifle problems.

I have only made four trips to Africa. On those trips I have shot 22-250, .243, 30-06, and .375 H&H. I used the .375 the most and on one trip used it exclusively. I have used the .375 270gr for lighter game and 300gr for the larger game. Worked great for Springbok through Cape Buffalo.

I’ve always taken two rifles: a DG ‘Stalking’ caliber (375/416), and a DG ‘Stopping’ caliber (458/470). And all with quick-detach low-power scopes (Swaro Z6 1-6x24, extended eye relief, non-illuminated).

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
I would be following Saeed's lead if going 375, the one rifle in that calibre will do everything, no need for a two gun battery with all the bullet selections available today for the 375. Just more gear to hump around to achieve nothing that the 375 won't achieve better.
Of course this assumes you can shoot the 375 well. If not then you may even find yourself in trouble with the 375 on buffalo

I took a 30-06 and 375 H&H on my first safari. You only need the 375. I took it and a 12 gauge on my next safari because I didn’t want to miss out on the great bird shooting. Shooting sand grouse at a waterhole is a great way to end the day.

I made one trip to Africa and took two pre 64 Win 70's, a 375 H&H and a 30-06 Fwt. I used 260 grain Nosler Partitions in the 375 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions in the 30-06. To be honest if I go I again, I will probably only take the 375.

Good enough choice, but don't have that good shooting pre 64 pre war 06 restored, at least until you get back, an old beat up rifle puts PHs and camp staff at ease as they often told me " Its going to be a good safari, his gun is well used" always a good start..

Mac,

A .375 will work for everything. You are right. But anything a .375 can do, a .416 can do better. And a light rifle is nice due to ammo weight restrictions.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Mac,

A .375 will work for everything. You are right. But anything a .375 can do, a .416 can do better. And a light rifle is nice due to ammo weight restrictions.

And a 460 would do even better.

And a 700 would even be better.

And so on.

How the hell can anyone kill anything more than dead?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Mac,

A .375 will work for everything. You are right. But anything a .375 can do, a .416 can do better. And a light rifle is nice due to ammo weight restrictions.

And a 460 would do even better.

And a 700 would even be better.

And so on.

How the hell can anyone kill anything more than dead?

As I have said many times, dead faster is better than dead slower.

Saeed,

You are right of course, to a point. But it all comes down to accuracy. An Abrams tank would be more lethal, but I can't shoot one well. Frankly, my .458 Lott pushes me to the edge of what I can shoot well. But my .416 is about the most accurate rifle I own and the recoil for me is quite manageable. I shoot it well and really don't need anything else.

I shoot the small stuff with this rifle, just because it's my most effective rifle. But I get your point.

I think I am almost in a unique position in this case.

I have a shooting range where so many people bring their guns to shoot.

I see how people buy large bore rifles, come to shoot them, and are incapable of shooting them accurately.

I have a whole bunch of these here, all gotten in exchange to smaller calibers that they could shoot better.

And ultimately, if for one second I thought a bigger caliber would do better for me, I would have used that.

I use a 375because it is the smallest caliber allowed by law.

If that was not the case, I would be more than happy to use my 30/404 for everything.

I would bet my life on it facing any animal.

Of course a .375 will do the trick.

I am not arguing otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think I am almost in a unique position in this case.

I have a shooting range where so many people bring their guns to shoot.

I see how people buy large bore rifles, come to shoot them, and are incapable of shooting them accurately.

I have a whole bunch of these here, all gotten in exchange to smaller calibers that they could shoot better.

And ultimately, if for one second I thought a bigger caliber would do better for me, I would have used that.

I use a 375because it is the smallest caliber allowed by law.

If that was not the case, I would be more than happy to use my 30/404 for everything.

I would bet my life on it facing any animal.

I have come to the same expensive conclusion...

Now, if Saeed would see that Trump is a .375hH and Biden is a .22 short.... we would be in total agreement.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Good enough choice, but don't have that good shooting pre 64 pre war 06 restored, at least until you get back, an old beat up rifle puts PHs and camp staff at ease as they often told me " Its going to be a good safari, his gun is well used" always a good start..

Kind of like when I show up with my Blaser!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think I am almost in a unique position in this case.

I have a shooting range where so many people bring their guns to shoot.

I see how people buy large bore rifles, come to shoot them, and are incapable of shooting them accurately.

I have a whole bunch of these here, all gotten in exchange to smaller calibers that they could shoot better.

And ultimately, if for one second I thought a bigger caliber would do better for me, I would have used that.

I use a 375because it is the smallest caliber allowed by law.

If that was not the case, I would be more than happy to use my 30/404 for everything.

I would bet my life on it facing any animal.

I have come to the same expensive conclusion...

Now, if Saeed would see that Trump is a .375hH and Biden is a .22 short.... we would be in total agreement.

I see Trump as a cockroach, and Biden as a fly!

I have thought about this for a long time and my plan is to take two rifles. I will take two Steyr-Mannlicher Model M Professionals in .30-06 and 9.3x62. I will go to a country where the 9.3 is legal for Buffalo and Elephant if I choose to hunt those

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Now, if Saeed would see that Trump is a .375hH and Biden is a .22 short.... we would be in total agreement.

I see Trump as a cockroach, and Biden as a fly! [/QUOTE]

............. and Both of them are what you find crawling around on a pile of hog shit! MacD37

Nah sell them both and put them on Guns Int, and buy a 458 Lott and a 300 Win mag !

quote:

Originally posted by Robertcat:
Nah sell them both and put them on Guns Int, and buy a 458 Lott and a 300 Win mag !

Well I'm going to keep the 375 H&H and I just put a check in the mail to George Caswell at Chaplin arms for a Chapuis 470 Nitro! So my 375 is going to be my light gun and my backup dangerous game gun and I hope to be able to shoot the Cape buffalo with the 470 Nitro! It's been a lifelong dream to own a double, and hopefully in the next 5 or 6 months my gun shop will be receiving a nice package from Oklahoma!

Good choice...I'm not a fan of the 375 for Buff. Yes, it works, but I like a bit more horsepower to enable a shot from any angle, especially on a wounded animal.

On my buff/plains game I used 375 HH and a custom 338-06 with 210 TTSX. All plains game
were one shot and done not so much the buff and five shots later! Not bad shots either.

I have limited experience in Africa. I used a Winchester Model 70 Safari Classic in .416 Remington for my Buff. For all plains game I used a .358 STA also in Model 70 Winchester. If and when I go back I will use the same, both with Northfork bullets. Good Shooting.

I used a.300 Weatherby my first two safaris. Got tired of being jacked in the jaw each shot. The factory stock just didn't fit me. I switched to my Remington 700 Classic stocked .30-06 and picked up another in .375 H&H. Except for elephant in the rain forest (.458 Lott), those 2 rifles sufficed for the next 35 years. Mostly the .30-06. 220 Hornady solids drilled deep neat holes in Hippo skulls. The 180 Nosler Partition accounted for everything else. I'm old fashioned I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:
I used a.300 Weatherby my first two safaris. Got tired of being jacked in the jaw each shot. The factory stock just didn't fit me. I switched to my Remington 700 Classic stocked .30-06 and picked up another in .375 H&H. Except for elephant in the rain forest (.458 Lott), those 2 rifles sufficed for the next 35 years. Mostly the .30-06. 220 Hornady solids drilled deep neat holes in Hippo skulls. The 180 Nosler Partition accounted for everything else. I'm old fashioned I guess.

Hell, you got it about perfect, except for using model 700’s!

I realize that my new way of hunting with two rifle in Africa isn't for everybody.

Have you tried a switch barrel rifle? There are some beautiful ones to choose from but my latest one that I have rigged up just for me, with custom barrels/chambers and stock is the lowest price ones available, a single shot break open TC Encore Rifle.

It's sure no beauty queen, especially after I customized it, but it is fun for me to take my own rig after buffalo. Perfect fitting stock, skinner aperture sighs or scope, 24 inch barrel and short overall length.

My buffalo barrel has a custom chamber, .500-110 Win. necked down to true 500 cal. It runs a CEB 450gr. solid bullet at about 2,100fps.
For the PG barrel I have a 7x57 Ackley Improved.

Each barrel has it's own forearm and the one for the .500 is weighted with a lead shot epoxy mix. (It weighs in, soaking wet, at 8.5 lbs.) And just to make it a little uglier I built a tank type muzzle brake for it.

How ugly is it you ask?
- It's so ugly that the customs lady puked when I opened the case!
- It's so ugly that I have to carry it in a brown paper bag in the field!
- The PH won't put his gun in the same rack as mine!
It's ugly.

Now everyone is going to want one. chuckle. Brian

Sorry I haven’t followed the answers to your original question but if it were me on my first safari I would use my favourite gun only. If it was dangerous game plus then a .375 and know it well.

Happy times!!

460 wby shooter,

Yes, Sorry, I got blown way of course with my post. I went back and checked your original post and question.

Winchester 375HH and 30-06, new and old! It doesn't get any better than that. Good hunting. Brian

I'd like to say that , now you have chosen two excellent rifles/cartridges for Africa you can also make a big difference in the killing power of you choice by using the best bullets like Barnes TTSX and Swift bullets, just as example. I am a fan of Cutting Edge Bullets for cape buffalo but that is just one opinion. The point is that a hunter can make a cartridge a lot more effective on the bigger tougher animals by using a one of the "best" bullets instead of an "average" bullet.

I learned that one the hard way too. The bullet is the only part of your equipment that touches the animal, just to over state the obvious.

I would agree that your choice of a .375 H&H and a .30-06 would be good for the animals that you mentioned up to and including Buffalo.

When I went on my first African Safari I was in the middle of a nasty divorce and couldn't have my rifles so I used a borrowed 7 mm Rem mag. The only bullets that I had with it were 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, but they made one shot kills on 8 animals from a Kudu to a Limpopo Bushbuck.

My next African hunt was the only hunt that I have ever taken more than one rifle. Buffalo was the main animal that I wanted to hunt so I bought a .375 RUM and shot 300 grain TSX bullets and for my second rifle I took my own 7 mm Rem mag with 160 grain Accubonds. Both rifles worked great on the animals that I shot with them.

That hunt was before I had a computer or had heard of Accurate Reloading, and it turned out that the .375 RUM is just about identical to Saeed's .375/404.

On my 3rd African hunt I only took my .375 RUM with 270 grain TSX bullets. That combination again worked great on a variety of animals from a Cape Kudu down to a couple of Steenboks, including a one shot kill on a gemsbok at 348 yards.

On my last 3 trips to Africa I have only taken one rifle, my .300 Weatherby with 168 grain TSX bullets on one trip and 168 grain TTSX bullets on the other trip. No complaints on the rifle or either bullet.

Lot of folks say a 410 is a kids shotgun.... when it is truly the EXPERTS SHOTGUN!!

If you are an expert like Saeed, and most PHs who have shot dozens of buff and dangerous game... the 375 H&H works!!

Remember also, the borders of hunting blocks and parks are very small in some places today!! If you don't get them down, you can lose them!!

I shot my first two buff with a 375H&H, first one with one shot right through the heart, 40 yards... ran off 100 yards and crumped!!... the second 20 yards in the lungs.... and the race was on... a Texas heart shot at 80 yards, PH missed, but hit the tree next to him.... another 200 yards and he layed down, but upright... another at 10 yards in the boiler room and he tried to charge me.... another in the other side... and he was finally down for good!!

So you see both sides!! I said "no more 375s on Buffalo!!"

Frankly, I like the 416 Rigby or my 470 double... and will take my 450-400 3 " to the Selous!!

The 375 H&H is super on soft skinned species, even lion... but it is NOT A STOPPING rifle if you get a charge!! Great on Crocs where pinpoint accuracy and longer range might be needed... great with a scope....

Have a great hunt what ever you choose!!

CheerZ,

quote:

Frankly, I like the 416 Rigby or my 470 double... and will take my 450-400 3 " to the Selous!!

Though not a rabid fan of the 375 I would opt for a 375 rather than the 450/400 for DG.

The flip side of the coin on bolt action rifles would be the all-rounder 416 Rem teamed up with either 7x57, 30-06 or 300Win.

My choice of DR for DG: 500, 470 or 500/465 in that order of preference.

So it's Africa right? You need a rifle that is DG legal. That rules out the 375 in some countries (which require min 40 cal) and the 450-400 (some countries require 4000 ft.lbs) How about this? 350gr Swift A Frame at 2300 fps meets both criteria without the need for a gun bearer or shoulder surgery. How about we add a set of 20ga barrels for birds? And it all fits in a case not much larger than a violin case. What caliber is that you may ask? Good question. Does not exist. But it will soon!

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
So it's Africa right? You need a rifle that is DG legal. That rules out the 375 in some countries (which require min 40 cal) and the 450-400 (some countries require 4000 ft.lbs) How about this? 350gr Swift A Frame at 2300 fps meets both criteria without the need for a gun bearer or shoulder surgery. How about we add a set of 20ga barrels for birds? And it all fits in a case not much larger than a violin case. What caliber is that you may ask? Good question. Does not exist. But it will soon!

What countries require larger caliber than a 375?

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
So it's Africa right? You need a rifle that is DG legal. That rules out the 375 in some countries (which require min 40 cal) and the 450-400 (some countries require 4000 ft.lbs)

The first part of this statement, concerning the 375, is outdated. I don't know of a single African country that requires more than 375 for DG today.

The second part of this statement is just incorrect. The 450/400 produces 4,111 ft lbs of muzzle energy and I've not heard of a single country that doesn't allow this caliber on DG.

See the following:


Benin
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Benin.
• Benin does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Botswana
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Botswana is .222 caliber for any game other than dangerous game.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Botswana is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• The maximum equipment allowed for rifle hunting in Botswana is .577 Nitro Express caliber.
• Botswana does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Burkina Faso
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Burkina Faso.
• Burkina Faso does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Cameroon
• For Group 1 - Small Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .240 caliber or less, shotgun may be used as well.
• For Group 2 - Medium Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .240 to .354 caliber.
• For Group 3 - Big Game, the equipment requirement for hunting is .354 caliber or larger.
• Cameroon does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Central African Republic
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Central African Republic is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Central African Republic does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Ethiopia
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Ethiopia.
• Ethiopia does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Mozambique
• There is no minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Mozambique.
• Mozambique does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Namibia
• Smallest caliber allowed 7 mm (.284).
• Minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity)
• Big Game
5400 Joule
(Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.)
• Large Game
2700 Joule
(Greater Kudu, Cape Eland, Oryx / Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Hartmann's Zebra, Burchell's Zebra, Giraffe, Sable Antelope, Roan Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, Leopard, etc.)
• Medium to Small Game
1350 Joule
(Springbok, Impala, Blesbok, Gray Duiker, Steenbok, Ostrich, Caracal, Black-Faced Impala, Red Lechwe, Damara Dik-Dik, Klipspringer, Black-Backed Jackal, Warthog, Cheetah, Nyala, Chacma Baboon, Game Birds, etc.)

South Africa
• Most provinces do not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting and rely on common sense.
• Some provinces require a minimum of .375 caliber for dangerous or big game hunting.
• No provinces require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Tanzania
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .240 caliber for any game other than dangerous game.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Tanzania is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting.
• Tanzania does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Zambia
• Zambia does not have a minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting plains game and rely on common sense. Caliber in the .270 range will be well suited for some of the smaller plains game in Zambia.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .300 caliber for dangerous game such as Leopard and Lion.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting such as Elephant, Buffalo and Hippo.
• Zambia does not require a minimum energy (Eo - muzzle velocity) for calibers used.

Zimbabwe
• Class A Game
5300 Joule
Minimum caliber 9.2mm in diameter
(Elephant, Hippo, Buffalo)
• Class B Game
4300 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Lion, Giraffe, Eland)
• Class C Game
3000 Joule
Minimum caliber 7.0mm in diameter
(Leopard, Crocodile, Kudu, Oryx / Gemsbok, Hartebeest, Wildebeest, Zebra, Nyala, Sable Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, etc.)
• Class D Game
850 Joule
Minimum caliber 5.56mm in diameter
(Warthog, Impala, Reedbuck, Sitatunga, Duiker, Steenbok, Jackal, Game Birds, etc.)
• Black Powder Rifles
Minimum caliber .40

Well, there it is. Right at the bottom. Minimum caliber for black power in Zim is .40.

I wasn't able to find the regs for Uganda. Surely some of the guys who've hunted there recently can chime in but I don't remember seeing anything on Uganda requiring more than a 375.

quote:

Originally posted by 460 wby shooter:
I planning on making a trip to Africa for Cape Buffalo and a few plains game sometime the next five to six years. My current rifle battery that I'm planning on taking is a new to me Winchester model 70 stainless steel classic 375 H&H that I plan on doing some customization work on and my other rifle is a pre-war 1939 manufacturer Winchester model 70 30-06 that I plan on having restored (it's in rough shape) but it's a shooter! What do you guys think of my choice for two gun rifle battery for a first timer to go to Africa with?

It’s perfect. Stick with the 375 and 30-06.

If you shoot it well a 375 H&H is all you need. But the combo will also work fine.

Funny how the internet makes everyone an expert. So, keyboard jockeys, get googling.

minimum caliber .40 : Kenya, if it ever comes back



450-400 "The 450/400 Nitro Express is based on a straight sided 450 caliber parent cartridge necked down to take a smaller diameter projectile in a bottle-necked case. The bullet diameter is 0.411 inches. Regular bullet weight is 400 grains, but 350s can also be found. Normal velocity with the 400-grain bullet is about 2100 feet per second and produces around 3918 ft-lbs of muzzle energy."

I'm not sure about the internet making experts but being wrong in front of an experienced group of folks is usually pretty obvious ... and embarrassing. And yes, that is laughter! I believe the old saying is don't piss down my leg and try to tell me it's raining! Anyone advising the 450-400 isn't acceptable in today's Africa as a legal DG caliber is doing just that!!



I find it hard to believe anyone giving advice to today's hunters regarding the .375 being illegal for dangerous game based on antiquated regulations from a country that hasn't hosted safari hunters now for 44 years, could ever be taken seriously.

But YMMV as always!

I am covered.

My rifle shoots 375, 416 and 404 ammo interchangeable.

I use various brass, 425 Dakota, 404 J and my bullets are 375.

Our game scouts get throughly confused!

Our old driver, Lema, decides what ammo to use any any given moment.

Each time we stop the truck and are ready to follow something, I go to Lema and picks a round from my ammo belt to chamber in the rifle.

We have had this system going for years and it works!

Fact: the 375 is NOT legal for DG in EVERY African country, no matter how many little icons you put in your post, or how much indignation you muster up.

Fact: the 450-400 does not produce 4000 ft.lbs in most loadings in a normal length barrel. It's light on velocity and that hurts the energy calculation.

Pouring scorn on someone who has an opinion that does not conform to your notions is what politicians do, it's a low form of debate. It's called a "smear". Rather, you should cite your own qualifications to bolster your opinion, I respect that. I disregard icons as a form of debate.

I don't claim to be the last word on calibers so you can disregard everything I have to say; but I am not the only one to think the 375 H&H has never been, and is not now, an adequate dangerous game cartridge, no matter how many nimrods love the cartridge. It is considered a "medium" caliber in Africa, just as we consider the 30-06 to be a medium cartridge in North America. Along with the 450-400 which it largely supplanted.

In my opinion, again you can disregard that, these cartridges are a fine choice for recoil-sensitive shooters provided you have backup from someone with a proper DG rifle. Modern bullets have improved their suitability but modern bullets have improved every caliber's effectiveness.

They are certainly a better choice than a heavier caliber if you cannot place that heavier bullet in the right place.