quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Youdon't hold the string with your muscles and you can put a scope on it, you can leave it drawn and ready to go. It's not a bow and it's not a gun.

I have to wait anouther 4 years for my moose draw here, the compound users are so effiecient that they have a pretty high success rate. I don't begrudge them that and I'm not against compounds. I am against even more technology and effectiveness in a season that started out with the animals having a very large margin of safety from the hunters. The further we get from "primitive" weapons the less the opportunity for all hunters.

I don't mind getting out and not shooting my moose this year. But I can't get out next year because of the effectiveness of the new bows. The early seasons are getting shut down for bow hunting and there are very few areas that aren't on draw anymore.

Adding crossbows only makes it worse. That's why I propose to keep it for gun season. If you want to hunt archery season buy a friggen bow and learn to use it. Anyone can pick up a crossbow and shoot it within minutes, there's no learning curve. Bowhuting should have challenge involved and part of the challenge is learning to shoot your bow.



the chef

So that is your opinion, but why should others follow your reasoning, just because you like it that way?

I have a compound and have bow hunted over 30 years and have taken a lot of game with it. I also have a crossbow and have used it to take game. I have had two shoulder surgeries and I could not draw my bow back for almost 4 years, if it was not for the crossbow I would have missed 4 seasons of bow hunting.

What I prefer to use is, my compound bow, the crossbow is a pain in the ass. Heavy, awkward to maneuver, I move just as much using a crossbow as I do drawing back my compound bow. There is NO ADVANTAGE to a crossbow.

Put I feel people have the right to choose which one they want to use. You complain about States becoming draw only for hunting, that is no fault of the crossbow, that is just a State controlling how and who gets chosen to hunt, not even a crossbow issue.

quote:

You complain about States becoming draw only for hunting, that is no fault of the crossbow, that is just a State controlling how and who gets chosen to hunt, not even a crossbow issue.

Don't you suppose that a jurisdiction brings in the draw because of the numbers of animals taken? Once the numbers get too high it has to go to a draw. All I'm saying is I'd rather see people use less effective weapons and have more hunting opportunity. As far as your opinion that the crossbow isn't as effective as a true bow that's been proven wrong over and over.

Furthermore to say that you move as much shooting the crossbow as drawing your bow all I can say is-bullshit.

As to others following my opinion just because I want it that way you're wrong there too. I'm basing my opinion on proven facts. You base yours on the notion that you want to use a crossbow and that's all. Your lot will cry and stomp their feet and even bribe public officials with cheap crossbows to get your way. In the end it will probably work and there will be more animals taken and less hunting opportunity for everyone.

Remember that hunting with technologically inferior weapons is about hunting and not so much as about scoring and you'll understand where the rest of us are coming from.

cheers

the chef

There are going to be cheaters no matter the weapon or hunting season. There is no advantage to a crossbow. Most whitetails live in wooded areas. Bolts will deflect as well as any arrow.

Personally, I prefer my wheelie bow even though I have a recurve. I shoot the 'modern bow' better.

I have witnessed a lot in my time as a hunter (as I am sure all of you have). I have heard from the mouth of certain people (60 plus year old men) they are going to get their buck because they deserve it. And they kill them with a firearm in the non firearm season.

I have known of grown men kill deer during the 'special' youth season (which I totally hate) though some youths might benefit from getting a break. Personally if I had kids I would take them in the regular season and give up 'my' deer for them.

I have watched people shoot at deer with firearms and not even leave their stands to go look for them.

I have been shot at during the archery season by firearms hunters 'sighting in' at dusk.

I have known people who lied to get crossbow permits because it is 'easier'. Yet they miss every deer they shoot at.

I personally use a muzzleloader when I hunt in shotgun only areas. It gags me to hear the 5 shot hail mary's going on around me while my one-shot deer lays peacfully dead.

Those are the cheaters. They don't really hunt and don't care. No matter the weapon. Those who choose a crossbow should be allowed. It's at best a one shot, clunky weapon at deer. Almost all states have bag limits. People will honor those or not. We know there are those who don't.

It isn't the weapon that makes the cheater, poacher, crook, it is the person.

Again, while a crossbow isn't for me (I get no advantage from using them). I see no harm in someone else using one no matter their physical fitness.

calgarychef1 read Aspen Hill Adventures post. That about says it all.

Also have you ever used a crossbow? From the sound of your babbling you have not, so how can you judge a hunting implement if you have not real hand on knowledge?

Ann, I know you mean well, but:

(There is no advantage to a crossbow.) - Well yes there is; the crossbow manufacturer engineering tests proved so from the beginning. Every single peer reviewed test that has been conducted to determine that very point indicate the same and are consistent w/ the original manufacturer findings. Even the study done at tax dollar expense by the State of New York had the same findings. To go further, the State of New York determined in their study that the current trend to downplay the crossbow by comparing it to a modern compound was the result of sales strategy developed by Horton. Bottom line, no one chooses a crossbow because it is of the same level of difficulty or of greater difficulty than the modern compound. The crossbow is proven to be of less difficulty to master and is proven superior to the compound in all measurable aspects of effectiveness.

(Most whitetails live in wooded areas. Bolts will deflect as well as any arrow.) - As will bullets, slugs, and spears. This has no bearing.

(I prefer my wheelie bow even though I have a recurve. I shoot the 'modern bow' better.) - In context of archery only seasons or archery only areas that is great. Your wheelie bow is a bow and is recognized by every state and every organization as archery tackle. I myself shoot an issued M40 far better than either my self-bow or longbow, but I use my longbow because it is archery tackle and the M40 is not. No organization or state recognize the crossbow as archery tackle. Even the few states that allow its use define and classify the crossbow outside of archery tackle. Virginia as example requires you to purchase an archery license to use archery tackle during that season. The crossbow is not archery tackle and you are therefore required to purchase a crossbow permit to be allowed to use it during archery season.

(I have witnessed a lot in my time as a hunter:
-I have heard from the mouth 60 plus year old men commit game law and weapon law violations. -I have watched people commit game law violations. -I have been shot at during the archery season by firearms hunters committing weapon law and criminal law violations. - I have known people who committed fraud by criminally falsifying an official state record.) -I hope you performed your civic duty by providing sworn testimony in a court of law against all of those criminals and crimes you witnessed. Your testimony and their convictions would at the very least remove their ability to legally hunt for 5years and at best place them in prison which is where they belong.

The path of the crossbows use during archery only season and/or archery only areas is paved in conflicts of interest and ethic violations. It gives the long standing good name and tradition of archery a black eye. If anyone is truly interested in how or why certain top state game officials would push crossbow legislation through when every local, state and national archery organization were lockstep against it; I'd suggest you make use of the Freedom of Information through The Reporters Committee and its FOI Service Center. You just may find a trail of dollars going straight from a crossbow manufacturer directly into the pocket of said official. Officials in my state have left office as a result of freedom of information requests and the subsequent ethics violations uncovered, I suspect this same pattern of abuse will be found elsewhere.

If the crossbow lobby took a legitimate above board stance by working side by side with the disabled hunters and disabled bowhunters of America in an effort to liberalize the crossbow for the elderly and disabled while lobbying to create distinct crossbow seasons and/or areas, the crossbow would not recieve much opposition. Because they chose what they perceived as the quick and easy road through payoffs and backdoor deals along w/ marketing ploys w/ no regards to ethics, they have received great opposition. No matter how big a smile their prettiest salesman puts on as he is stabbing your state in the back, he's still stabbing you in the back!

GVA

I understand your arguements Gary, but I don't think there will be a mad rush of people running out to buy crossbows if they were made legal. I sure won't spend the money.

The first time I was shot at taught me a big lesson. Report it and law enforcement tells you they can't do anything because they didn't see it. Plus, my dead body wasn't out there. Kinda like going to ER if you are not bleeding all over the floor, you're gonna sit and wait.

There are some big spender neighbors where I am presently at who keep bins of corn out for the deer. Illegal, yet they do it. It's 'their deer' and they do what they please. People who have spoken up ended up with damaged personal property, broken into houses, etc, etc, etc.....

Nothing could be proven so nothing was done.

Yep, plenty frustrating. There are gonna be crooks out there no matter what.

I do think that crossbows were developed as weapons to kill humans (specifically) and not designed with game hunting in mind. But I also think the English long bow might have also been a people killer more so than a hunting weapon.

I have shot a crossbow at ATA some years ago. Nope, not for me.

I also equate crossbow use to say, canned hunts. There are lots of 100 acre canned hunts out there but really, most people do not hunt at them. They still prefer to do it the hard way.

Ann, I agree. I will always choose my compound bow over my crossbow. 99.99% of the time I use my compound bow.

My whole problem with the thread is, why people have to put ethics in it. Everyone's idea of ethics is different, it is self imposed on what you would do or not do.

It is like saying fenced hunts are not ethical, what is the size of a fenced area that you will hunt, 10 Acers 500 Acers or 200,000 Acers. No matter how big the area, it will still be a fenced hunt. But don't make yourself imposed ethics someone else's.

Redhawk I started using a crossbow over 20 years ago, I've shot mine quite a bit. I know their limitations and their advantages. I'd never wander into this argument If I hadn't had some experience with one, that aint my style

the chef

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Hunting with a crossbow isnt the same as shooting a crossbow. These "tests" were probably designed to measure how easy it is to learn to shoot a crossbow from a fixed rest in a controlled situation. I think if they legalized crossbows there would be a rush to buy them by a bunch of under/misinformed people, many youngsters and they would rush out thinking that just because they have a crossbow and can hit a target at the range, they are going to be able to kill deer with it. Unfortunately many of them would end up empty handed and disappointed. They are NOT easier to hunt with than a regular compound, they are heavy, noisy and the energy/trajectory is no better than a good compound.

If you think Im wrong, go try a crossbow and see for your self. I have hunted with both, HAVE YOU???????

I shot a compound for years. My left shoulder is now messed up and I switched to a x-bow. I do not regret it in the least.

I can't believe the anti x-bowers in one breath say they're not ethical, not a bow, and no way no how should be allowed to hunt during archery season, then post reports of how great of a lethal range they have with Marlow reports etc......then take a breath and say there's no advantage to owning a crossbow over a compound because of the effective range is the same, they're heavier, bulkier, second shot is non-existent, they're noisier etc......then offer advice to a fellow member of a video of a deer "jumping the string" at 20 yards which was released by a crossbow and tell him keep your shots under 30 yards.

Get your freaking story straight and tell us the truth why you don't like x-bows. YOU DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE FEWER TAGS FOR YOU GUYS!

Hey Chef, life sucks, there's so few animals and so many hunters. I hunt moose as well, I use a rifle as well. When archery season for moose opened here, where do you think they're tags came from? The rifle hunters! I don't whine and cry. That's life. You want more tags, then complain to the MNR, don't bash other hunters.


Gary, you posted all these wonderful descriptions of what archery equipment is suppose to be. Well the way I see it, my trigger, and your release aid is indeed the same, we both draw our bows by hand and both use fibre optic sites. The only difference I see is mine is horizontal and yours vertical. My god, even the projectiles weigh the same, and look the same.

Guys, we are all hunters fighting to maintain the right to enjoy our pastime. We are all on the same side!!!!!!!!

If you really insist on hunting with "traditional" equipment, dump the wheelies and sites and releases and we can all go back 1000 years. While we're at it, why not ATV's, GPS, rangefinders, flashlights...


I MEAN GET A GRIP REALLY!

quote:

Originally posted by beretta96:
I shot a compound for years. My left shoulder is now messed up and I switched to a x-bow. I do not regret it in the least.

I can't believe the anti x-bowers in one breath say they're not ethical, not a bow, and no way no how should be allowed to hunt during archery season, then post reports of how great of a lethal range they have with Marlow reports etc......then take a breath and say there's no advantage to owning a crossbow over a compound because of the effective range is the same, they're heavier, bulkier, second shot is non-existent, they're noisier etc......then offer advice to a fellow member of a video of a deer "jumping the string" at 20 yards which was released by a crossbow and tell him keep your shots under 30 yards.

Get your freaking story straight and tell us the truth why you don't like x-bows. YOU DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE FEWER TAGS FOR YOU GUYS!

Hey Chef, life sucks, there's so few animals and so many hunters. I hunt moose as well, I use a rifle as well. When archery season for moose opened here, where do you think they're tags came from? The rifle hunters! I don't whine and cry. That's life. You want more tags, then complain to the MNR, don't bash other hunters.


Gary, you posted all these wonderful descriptions of what archery equipment is suppose to be. Well the way I see it, my trigger, and your release aid is indeed the same, we both draw our bows by hand and both use fibre optic sites. The only difference I see is mine is horizontal and yours vertical. My god, even the projectiles weigh the same, and look the same.

Guys, we are all hunters fighting to maintain the right to enjoy our pastime. We are all on the same side!!!!!!!!

If you really insist on hunting with "traditional" equipment, dump the wheelies and sites and releases and we can all go back 1000 years. While we're at it, why not ATV's, GPS, rangefinders, flashlights...


I MEAN GET A GRIP REALLY!

Way to tell them, I agree with you 100%

Accumulated thumb, finger, wrist and elbow injuries make a bow unusable to me. I decided to try a crossbow and have only hunted with it twice. I took one at about 35 yards and one at 45-50. That's using a laser range finder. I felt I was really pushing the envelope with the longer shot but I wans invited to hunt the place to thin the deer so I took the shot and I did get the kill. I think 35-40 yards is a more reasonable limit. I enjoy my crossbow but as the size of the deer herd grows and gun season lengthens I may have to wait until I retire to have more need of it.